The end for ebike tuning?

[Zimmerframe]

That is why I had to move to a remote place in south west Wales as he was taking all my hot blonde girlfriends away from me

He's a bit greedy when it comes to putting it about in the hills, you never stood a chance with competition like that ... if you look at close ups on his bike photo's, they're all emblazoned with his Strava monika "The Sperminator" .

Your one statement also answers two other questions .. why you ride so much with @dobbyhasfriends ... and removes any doubt as to who, or rather what, dobby's "Friends" actually are ..

 

[Rusty]

He lives in New Zealand .. he's normally following the herd - but for different reasons ...

You have NZ & Australia mixed up man

 

[Rusty]

Several people seem to be quite lively in their disagreement with @Wernher and myself arguing that the regulations are plain bogus. Quite frankly, I find those arguments actually indicative of current society that accepts mediocrity rather than striving for excellence and to be fair, rather vapid.
Personally I consider the lower limit a joke and while the 32kph limit is not ideal (36kph preferred) I am comfortable enough with 32kph to not bother trying to hack my system. Yes there will always be those that have to tweak things, but with the EU regulations regarding anti-tamper safeguards being built in to the control software, before too long the use of assorted software will not be successful. When that happens minds far more exceptional than mine will start writing replacement software that will over-write the OEM stuff, which will then lead to another round of nanny state EU regulations to prohibit that and probably include lifetime jail sentences or some BS like that.
Yes there will always be some that will ride like idiots, just like there are those that drive automobiles with complete disregard for other road users, thrill- seekers that so whatever floats their boat without accepting that a mistake by them can severely effect innocent bystanders and back to our sport idiots that run 1Kw bikes with no limiters.

Regardless of the above - the reason we argue against the 25kph limit is that when you have silly regulations like that they tend to effect not only those in the regulated area, but the rest of the world - usually by pushing up prices. Me, I think eMTB are at a minimum 25-30% too expensive to start with and don't want to see prices pushed up. I also don't want stupid limitations based on European 'commuter' information pushed on my MTB activities.

Argue with me all you want and post whatever information you feel backs your argument, but at the end anything that infringes on MY rights and enjoyment is something I will speak out against.
If you don't like what I say - don't read my posts.

That is called choice.

 

[Fivetones]

You’re acting like you’re an oppressed minority. Maybe it’s about time you considered the rights of others around you too? Other trail users, those that actually protested to get the right of way as a bridle way or footpath, the farmer with livestock who you share the right of way with? Not everything is about the individual.

What’s currently in place is not designed to persecute anyone but to chart a course through what’s best for everyone collectively.

I’m not arguing that it’s perfect but to think anyone is singled out here is woefully naive.

 

[Jamsxr]

25km is shit for my local trails. The government want to ban combustion engines but is doing very little to promote alternative transportation, other then restrictive regulations.

Most proficient cyclists commuting will average over 25km while on the move, having an eBike will help you go further, more efficiently and not arrive at work a sweaty mess.

If we can’t trust the general public to ride a 32km eBike I think we’re pretty doomed... Imagine if the car arrived for the first time in today’s western society, we would probably be subject to 20mph limits everywhere and you certainly couldn’t have a stereo!

The ability to de restrict will have an impact on my next eMTB purchase. Otherwise it will be a downgrade.

 

[Vas]

Use slalom gear?? You should be a ble to outrun the coastguard in a force 6 or more!!

I tried to do so, but it didn't work ..... they were awaiting for me on the land once I got out of the water...!!

 

[Fivetones]

The government want to ban combustion engines but is doing very little to promote alternative transportation, other then restrictive regulations.

The cycle to work scheme with no £1000 limit - Green Commute Initiative

However I agree, there needs to be much more incentive to adopt ebikes right across the board.

Of course you could just try pedalling harder if you think 25kph is too slow?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think it's a bit mad that France have set fines so high, prison sentences and licence bans for anyone de-restricting an electric bicycle to be assisted over 25kph.... because of ONE death.

Yet every year cars kill literally 1000's ! of pedestrians and yet in a car, you're still allowed .... whilst driving along, to start a little fire - yes, in a moving vehicle .. then use that little fire to set something else on fire - whilst supposedly keeping both hands on the wheel and actually concentrating on which pedestrian you're going to run over next ...

The Driver then has to put out and dispose of the first fire they created, either by sticking the fire machine in your pocket or casually throwing it out of the window to possibly cause another fire.

Then you deal with the item you set on fire by holding it in your mouth, ingesting the poisonous fumes which affect your ability to concentrate and meanwhile smoke billows out reducing your visibility of the road and the next pedestrian you're going to hit. Whilst this is going on, you have to deal with the effects of the fire you've created and avoid hot ash and embers setting your genitalia on fire, eventually giving up and throwing fire no.2 out of the window and causing yet another fire.

 

[Rusty]

If we can’t trust the general public to ride a 32km eBike I think we’re pretty doomed... Imagine if the car arrived for the first time in today’s western society, we would probably be subject to 20mph limits everywhere and you certainly couldn’t have a stereo!

The problem IMHO is that certain areas creating BS regulations are treating this issue like when the automobile arrived on the scene.

The Locomotive Act 1865 stipulated that any self-propelled road vehicle had to be preceded by a person walking at least 60 yards ahead, carrying a red flag.

 

[Jamsxr]

The cycle to work scheme with no £1000 limit - Green Commute Initiative

However I agree, there needs to be much more incentive to adopt ebikes right across the board.

Of course you could just try pedalling harder if you think 25kph is too slow?

That extra few kph allow for that uphill flow man ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

any self-propelled road vehicle had to be preceded by a person walking at least 60 yards ahead, carrying a red flag.

Even back then they'd made fair game of pedestrians. At least they tried to even things out a bit for slow lumbering automobiles by making the pedestrian target easier to see by forcing them to carry a red flag.

 

[ziscwg]

I thought ALL the laws were made by the EU ! Argh we’ve been conned again ?

Do a Frexit and you can derestrict your ebike at will.

 

[Wernher]

The problem IMHO is that certain areas creating BS regulations are treating this issue like when the automobile arrived on the scene.

The Locomotive Act 1865 stipulated that any self-propelled road vehicle had to be preceded by a person walking at least 60 yards ahead, carrying a red flag.

Funny if it wasn't so stupid.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Here's another great example of the madness of €30,000 fine, a year in prison and loose your driving licence for 3 years if you de-restrict an E-bike and possibly potter along a deserted fire road at 32kph ...

Yes - you can buy and drive a car with a 45kph top speed if you're 14 years old. Have no licence, no training, no idea of traffic laws, no experience. Yet are free enter the normal world of bikes, motorcycles, cars, trucks, people and cause total chaos, gazillions of accidents and no doubt dozens of deaths, if not directly, then by causing some other vehicle to avoid you and plough into more people.

The All-Electric Citroen Ami Can be Driven by 14-Year-Olds, in France

I like this quote : "Whether or not the resilience of the Ami will be enough to fend off the worst effects of having a 14-year-old behind the wheel remains to be seen.

Still, in-between playing bumper cars with their Ami (rented, owned or otherwise) they’ll also be happy to know there’s an area to the right of the steering wheel that can safely house a smartphone. "

Yup, pedestrian death can probably be hosed off without too much damage .. phew, that's lucky.

 

[Wernher]

Do a Frexit and you can derestrict your ebike at will.

?? No it's got to be an EUexit as the FR part is the problem. Personally I think France is going to be alone in this one. You can't implement stuff like this without consultation with the bigger European Union. To be honest governance is a nightmare in situations like this. Difficult to implement and impossible to change once it's in. And those that push for the laws are obviously working very hard to get it sorted while those that need to review and approve aren't always so dedicated to the correct cause of action. That's why often you get stupid laws that stay on the statutes forever even after they've taken in disuse until one day some new technology is banging it's head against it and they want to literally apply it again without any insight

 

[Wernher]

You’re acting like you’re an oppressed minority. Maybe it’s about time you considered the rights of others around you too? Other trail users, those that actually protested to get the right of way as a bridle way or footpath, the farmer with livestock who you share the right of way with? Not everything is about the individual.

What’s currently in place is not designed to persecute anyone but to chart a course through what’s best for everyone collectively.

I’m not arguing that it’s perfect but to think anyone is singled out here is woefully naive.

Actually he is arguing for you the oppressed who doesn't yet know it yet, but are actually making a big scene about how you support the low limited while you're riding an unrestricted bike ?.

I'm not fussed, my bike supports me to 32 km/h and I'm legally allowed to unrestrict it if I want to. In my country it is not an issue. But seriously you'll be surprised how many UK riders are riding unrestricted bikes. Even Chris from EMBN has his bike unrestricted.

Will I unrestrict my 32 km/h bike? No and those of my friend who did reverted to standard because they gained nothing and were using more battery.

Guys, chill out. We're never going to agree on this topic but that's not a reason why we can't just ride and enjoy our bikes. I was out on mine this morning in stead of taking part in a keyboard war. It's enough that we have to prove to bio bikers that we aren't cheating. Let's not fight with each other about something as trivial as a support level. Give your opinion and respect the other guy's opinion and if I convinced you I'll be happy for you and if I haven't I'll pity you when I pass you up the hill because I live without boundaries and I love it. At 63 I've been given a new lease on life after I could hardly walk three years ago and first normal Mtb and now Emtb has changed my life and is still doing it on a daily basis. I don't do roads, I just do offroad - the gnarlier, the better and I never even think about where the assistance stops. I just pedal past it. Still glad it's 32 though ??.

So go saddle up those horses that you are fighting with so much enthusiasm for. Iron or plastic and go ride them because by the time you've completed this keyboard war there will be new technology out there and your beautiful horse will be ready to put out to pasture for retirement.

 

[Alan wolfe]

One reason why I would never buy 2nd hand bike incase it's been deristricted.i want to keep my warranty lol

 

[Wernher]

One reason why I would never buy 2nd hand bike incase it's been deristricted.i want to keep my warranty lol

Yamaha and Shimano motors are virtually indestructible. Shimano motors have been tuned and unrestricted to 60, 70 km/hour by enthusiasts and they keep running. It's not the motor on my bike that you have to worry about.

You must see my crankarms and the parts of the motor that got hit by rocks despite generous protection. ??

 

[Doomanic]

There's a fair few people on here who'd disagree with you when it comes to Shimano motors.

 

[HORSPWR]

The cycle to work scheme with no £1000 limit - Green Commute Initiative

However I agree, there needs to be much more incentive to adopt ebikes right across the board.

Of course you could just try pedalling harder if you think 25kph is too slow?

And not just e-bikes, e-scooters too. If cities and towns want to decrease road congestion and emissions then providing more dedicated cycle ways and paths for both e-bikes and e-scooters is the way to go. Me personally, I'd love to be able to get on an e-scooter and head of to the local cafe for a coffee or breakfast.

ELECTRIC SCOOTER- DRAGON GTR - 800 watts Max 1200watts

 

[Madmountainman]

It's kind of ironic that the French, who are completely mad about road cycling, want to bring in all this anti e-bike legislation, in order to stop the bikes going above 25kph. Take a look at your average road cyclist, be that a private individual, keen amateur or professional and they'll be riding on their skinny tyres at way over 25kph. I'd like to see the annual figures for death and/or injuries caused by this sector of French cyclists, speeding along way faster than most of us on an unrestricted pedelec.
The 25kph limit is too low. I'm an average rider and i'll happily trundle along flowy singletrack at around 28-30kph on my standard mtb, so find the 25kph cutoff a right pain in the arse. If the ignorant bureaucrats in charge allowed a sensible limit in the first place, we wouldn't see all these derestricting kits for sale.
Dumb ass EU Bureaucrats, it's no wonder we voted for Brexit!

 

[Fivetones]

It's kind of ironic that the French, who are completely mad about road cycling, want to bring in all this anti e-bike legislation, in order to stop the bikes going above 25kph. Take a look at your average road cyclist, be that a private individual, keen amateur or professional and they'll be riding on their skinny tyres at way over 25kph. I'd like to see the annual figures for death and/or injuries caused by this sector of French cyclists, speeding along way faster than most of us on an unrestricted pedelec.
The 25kph limit is too low. I'm an average rider and i'll happily trundle along flowy singletrack at around 28-30kph on my standard mtb, so find the 25kph cutoff a right pain in the arse. If the ignorant bureaucrats in charge allowed a sensible limit in the first place, we wouldn't see all these derestricting kits for sale.
Dumb ass EU Bureaucrats, it's no wonder we voted for Brexit!

You do realise that the UK would have fed into the decision making process too right? The reason for the limit is explained above. Just get fitter and pedal through it It’s not a speed limit!

 

[Madmountainman]

You do realise that the UK would have fed into the decision making process too right? The reason for the limit is explained above. Just get fitter and pedal through it It’s not a speed limit!

My quip was purely that. It doesn't matter where you live, we're all mired in bureaucracy. As for riding through, that kind of defeats what an e-mtb is supposed to be about.

 

[Fivetones]

My quip was purely that. It doesn't matter where you live, we're all mired in bureaucracy. As for riding through, that kind of defeats what an e-mtb is supposed to be about.

Buy a motorbike then (yes, I know, this isn’t Pinkbike)

 

[Wernher]

There's a fair few people on here who'd disagree with you when it comes to Shimano motors.

People are entitled to their opinion and to agree or disagree. Point is they are really reliable and I haven't seen any issues anywhere with motors failing. Also once you know how and you purchase the cable and software they are incredibly tunable. While I don't ride Shimano myself my brother's got three and riding those bike are just a pleasure. I won't hesitate to buy s bike with a Shimano motor if I like the bike.

 

[Madmountainman]

Buy a motorbike then (yes, I know, this isn’t Pinkbike)

Aah, but the UK bureaucracy has shut down most of the motorised off road access, so I need a mountain bike, which I have. The thing I don't have is younger legs and the big hills/longer rides are getting progressively harder, so some motorised assistance would be rather useful. It would be great if that assistance was set at a more realistic level so, to that end, my preference is for a bike with the Shimano motor as you can tell it you're in the USA and get assistance up to 20mph. I don't really go any faster than that on flowing single-track so, for me, that's a sensible limit which doesn't see me trying to mow down pedestrians which our roadie brethren, on their skinny tyres, can do at a much faster rate of knots.

 

[Doomanic]

Point is they are really reliable and I haven't seen any issues anywhere with motors failing.

Have a look through here; Shimano it might open your eyes a little.

 

[Wernher]

Have a look through here; Shimano it might open your eyes a little.

You must be specific. I've read that forum and unless they're is something there about motors failing that you can refer me to, i haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.

People complain about error codes when they start pedaling before the motor fully switched on and other related issues. It's like people who complained that their Giants lost its walk mode after the software upgrade because they didn't read what the upgrade said. The button configuration has been changed.

If you want to see motor and wiring problems go and look at the Specialised forum.

I am sure with any motor there will be individual failures but for sure Shimano is not unreliable or known for motor failures.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I am sure with any motor there will be individual failures but for sure Shimano is not unreliable or known for motor failures.

I think we have to accept that at this stage of the development process, all motors can fail.

Bosch is probably the most reliable from what I've compiled over time here, but even some people - not mentioning any names (@Doomanic ) have broken several of those ..

The brose motor is probably seen as the most unreliable, but is also probably the most widely used motor, so you'll see the most problems - though it does seem to have some inherently bad design flaws !

My E8000 didn't fail, but it did change sounds whilst I had it and I was always convinced it was about to fail EVERY ! (ok, I only know two) Person I physically know with an E7000 motor has had them changed.

 

[Rusty]

My E8000 didn't fail, but it did change sounds whilst I had it and I was always convinced it was about to fail

I think that sound change was when you took these off.