The E-mtb "Fitness" question: is it achievable in "eco" power mode (or the lowest equivalent)...Yes? No? Maybe?

[Mitchb]

I encourage those who think there is a drop off in fitness for e bike riders to read this research done by BYU. From the study:

The average heart rate during eMTB use was 94% (31/33) of the average heart rate during conventional mountain bike use. Therefore, eMTB use in this study achieved a majority of the exercise response and exceeded established biometric thresholds for cardiovascular fitness.

The study aimed to address 2 research questions: (1) What proportion of exercise response is retained for an experienced mountain biker while using an eMTB when compared with a conventional mountain bike? and (2) What are the perceptions and beliefs of experienced mountain bikers toward eMTBs both before and after riding an eMTB?

Really interesting info. Here's the entire study:

Pedal-Assist Mountain Bikes: A Pilot Study Comparison of the Exercise Response, Perceptions, and Beliefs of Experienced Mountain Bikers - PMC

Mountain biking is an aerobic physical activity that has experienced rapid growth. The emergence of the electric pedal-assist mountain bike (eMTB), while not without its critics, presents the potential for an even larger segment of the population to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[2WheelsNot4]

If the motor is cheating, arent gears too ?.

So the next time some MTBer points to the motor and says such. Point to his 12 speed gearing and inquire the same.

Then give him the standard Glasgow two fingered salute, and say, 'Get it up ye ya fanny'

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I encourage those who think there is a drop off in fitness for e bike riders to read this research done by BYU. From the study:

The average heart rate during eMTB use was 94% (31/33) of the average heart rate during conventional mountain bike use. Therefore, eMTB use in this study achieved a majority of the exercise response and exceeded established biometric thresholds for cardiovascular fitness.

The study aimed to address 2 research questions: (1) What proportion of exercise response is retained for an experienced mountain biker while using an eMTB when compared with a conventional mountain bike? and (2) What are the perceptions and beliefs of experienced mountain bikers toward eMTBs both before and after riding an eMTB?

Really interesting info. Here's the entire study:

Pedal-Assist Mountain Bikes: A Pilot Study Comparison of the Exercise Response, Perceptions, and Beliefs of Experienced Mountain Bikers - PMC

Mountain biking is an aerobic physical activity that has experienced rapid growth. The emergence of the electric pedal-assist mountain bike (eMTB), while not without its critics, presents the potential for an even larger segment of the population to ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Good to see this study pop up again and put to more use! It's only a pilot study and one that might be worth doing a larger study with someone's doctoral disertation? Com'on exercise science nerds, do a follow-up study with differening PAS modes while it's still relevant

 

[spicker]

All I know is I've cycled 1500+km on my eeb so far, since May, that I wouldn't have done otherwise. That has to have had a positive effect on my over all health and well being.

 

[Zed]

Thought this was pertinent:

I'd say that sums it up nicely.

Just happened to be surfin' the theloamwolf, this was an article from a guy new to eMtb.

Rob's Rants: What I Learned at the eMTB Shootout

theloamwolf.com

 

[ShinySideUp]

After a dodgy blood test, I have given up alcohol for the ten days previous to my next test. I have lost weight, I sleep better but I dearly miss a good ale on occasion.

I'm 68 (just) and getting an ebike was a godsend as my normal bike rides were getting shorter and shorter as I ran out of, well, everything much earlier; energy, knees, breath. I can get out again now and can happily cycle to pubs that are further away and higher up (not that there's any point at the moment). Do I feel fit? Fitter than if I didn't do it at all so every little helps.

 

[Gpkalisz]

I rode my emtb 13 miles into the Olympic Mountains and my Garmin watch said I burned 1300 calories - pretty good.

 

[Goodmango13]

IMO certainly a close level of workout compared to analog yet more options exist for further benefit such as ability to more frequently ride and go farther .......I recall a research article a few years ago about this same subject...based on the measurement of exertion of muscles, Emtb was 93% as much of the analog workout....the only problem the researchers said they had was that nobody wanted to stop riding and return the bikes to them....

 

[The Loam Wolf]

Hey Guys, Drew from Loam Wolf here. We actually made a fun video showing what a “power hour” looks like aboard both an ebike and non-e. Heart rate monitor and all that. Same trails, and some interesting results! Check it out and hope you enjoy it.

 

[BeBiker]

When following the youth on a mtb, I ride eco or tour, mainly as compensation of the weight of the bike and myself.
If then I am nearly dead and there is another uphill, I switch to Turbo without shame, and rest out as if it were a descent.
So it's a decent workout 90% of the time, and it prevents me from really dying.

 

[Doomanic]

You can rest on the descents???

 

[BeBiker]

No, they accelerate on the downhills, no time to rest there.

 

[Barbara_Reed]

Nobody,no matter how strong should be using their lower back to lift 10kg let alone 25 kg. Lifting an ebike whether onto a workstand or a rack..or over a gate... is more about technique than strength. Assuming you can crouch and then stand upright without using your hands, your quads are capable of lifting the rest of you bodyweight...so certainly capable of lifting an Ebike. The essence of the technique is to bend your legs whilst keeping your back straight ( no necessarilly vertical), tuck your elbows into your body and grab the bike at the level of your hands. That will mot probably be on a seat stay with one hand and under the downtube a bout a third of the way down. Then just straighten your legs. Be as close as possible to the rack or workstand. You do not need any gym time or weight training to do it that way.

The other part of the trick is to turn the front wheel through 180 degrees and strap it to the frame so you are lifting a solid mass and nothing is flopping around. I have to lift my bike above shoulder height to get it on the rack on my camper. Yes, I'm a shortarse.

 

[cappuccino34]

I've started riding with my heart rate displayed on my nav and adjust the bike assistance level to maintain 140-180 BPM. Sometimes that means riding with zero assistance, so is actually harder than an analogue bike.

 

[cappuccino34]

The other thing I do is massive rides so I have to be very economical with the battery use and thus get plenty of exercise.

 

[cappuccino34]

I reckon about 9 miles on rough trails and 1000 feet of proper climbing for every 100 Wh of battery is about the crossover point where it would be easier without a motor. I can do typically 45 miles and 5000 feet on a 500 battery but have to ride with the power off, or in Eco, for a lot of the ride to have anything left by the end.

 

[Stihldog]

Hey Guys, Drew from Loam Wolf here. We actually made a fun video showing what a “power hour” looks like aboard both an ebike and non-e. Heart rate monitor and all that. Same trails, and some interesting results! Check it out and hope you enjoy it.

Hi Drew, great video comparisons.…enjoyed the review.
These results are something’s that emtb’ers already knew but you put it down on paper, or video rather, which shows the difference in similar types of bikes (analog vs electric). The main difference being the number of laps and overall cost.
Some of us here, in my small circle of riders, are considering analog MTB, but, there seems to be a number of factors to consider. We’re just having too much fun on these eMTB’s, which are perfect for this mountain. Even the lightweight eMTB doesn’t seem suitable for this mountain. I know my Rail seems like a “tank” but, man, is it fun!

 

[RustyIron]

We actually made a fun video showing what a “power hour” looks like aboard both an ebike and non-e.

It's cool you guys put in the effort to do a test, and interesting that the data ended up so close. It confirms my own experience. When I'm rolling Amish style, I ride as fast as my heart, lungs, muscles, and skill allow. When I'm on the eMTB, I ride as fast as my heart, lungs, muscles, and skill allow. Those four variables are pretty constant. At the ends of the rides, the things that have changed are the speeds and distances. The personal effort is the same.

The one thing that I didn't see mentioned in this thread was when a trail feature is SO steep, rocky, or loose that it is almost unridable, and the only solution is to give it 120% effort. I'm sure many of us have been in the situation where are brain just turns up the power so we can achieve the goal, and afterwards we end up with a sore back, legs, and joints. When on the eMTB, some of the power required for these bone-crushing attempts is provided by the bike, so our bodies are not destroyed. In this case, the eMTB provides GREATER fitness, because your body isn't as jacked up at the end of the day.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

It's cool you guys put in the effort to do a test, and interesting that the data ended up so close. It confirms my own experience. When I'm rolling Amish style, I ride as fast as my heart, lungs, muscles, and skill allow. When I'm on the eMTB, I ride as fast as my heart, lungs, muscles, and skill allow. Those four variables are pretty constant. At the ends of the rides, the things that have changed are the speeds and distances. The personal effort is the same.

The one thing that I didn't see mentioned in this thread was when a trail feature is SO steep, rocky, or loose that it is almost unridable, and the only solution is to give it 120% effort. I'm sure many of us have been in the situation where are brain just turns up the power so we can achieve the goal, and afterwards we end up with a sore back, legs, and joints. When on the eMTB, some of the power required for these bone-crushing attempts is provided by the bike, so our bodies are not destroyed. In this case, the eMTB provides GREATER fitness, because your body isn't as jacked up at the end of the day.

Steep loose tech E-mtb climbs are definitely adrenaline-fused, fatigue-
gratifying lung busters like analogue bikes with the exception that E-effort leaves me with a greater sense of "flow" that would be disrupted with multiple failed attempts or HAB effort...AND is logarithmic in FUN-FACTOR! It contributes to my overall fitness with the advantage of increased recovery time....so I can ride longer/more frequently with those climbs in my regular singletrack jaunts with less fear of consistently "redlining" it.

So basically, I can E-ride 90-120 minutes per ride 4/5 days a week instead 60-90 minutes 3/4 days a week without pedal-assistance. That's probably what I was able to do 25 years ago! I think I invested into a lot more fun, with a larger safety margin for my "fitness" with an E-mtb!

And bonus for me, making the tough climbs with the "eco" power mode over "trail" or "turbo mode" gives me a "boosted" perception of fitness/skill improvement...again probably not as much as analogue bike "fitness", but good enough for my health.

My hope is that doubters may read threads on this fitness topic to continue to help debunk, or at least consider external testimonial evidence on the virtues of pedal-assist mtbing. My bias: maybe even buy an E-mtb or two, growing the sport/recreation even more, increasing both mental and physical benefits, gaining greater singletrack access, and just having more E-mtbers experience long-term fun riding with another

Lastly, sure the haters will likely discount this type of thread as "confirmation bias" and "group think" until a little more research (beyond the BYU pilot study) investigates this fitness/fun E-phenomena. It's intuitively appealing and likely as health-safe (maybe more so in my personal anecdotal experience) as analogue mtbing, especially with responsible E-mtb users practicing established trail etiquette...and it does seem to promote fitness. So, when trail system managers are rethinking policies toward Class-1 (no-throttle, 20 mph max) here in the US, I'm hoping that the "fitness" element is another variable to more confidently broach the delicate "E-mtb trail access dilemma"!

That being said, I've been bloviating at the expense of my riding window, so I'm off to ride

 

[Zed]

Hey Guys, Drew from Loam Wolf here. We actually made a fun video showing what a “power hour” looks like aboard both an ebike and non-e. Heart rate monitor and all that. Same trails, and some interesting results! Check it out and hope you enjoy it.

Excellent vid. Sums it all up nicely once again. Not sure how I haven't come across that one before.

Or maybe I did ages ago and forgot about it

...and thanks for all the content. The Loam Wolf is a great channel

 

[Kevlasultanpus]

I would guess for the majority of us " fitness" actually means good health rather than the development of muscle and muscle stamina. Good health does of course require exercise but equally important are diet and lifestyle. Professional athletes invariably have professional support to ensure all of those elements are monitored and maximised but it worries me a little that non pros merely relate effort expended to potential fitness increase when in reality they could be doing more damage than good to their health. I think it has been shown that the average age of EMTB owners is somewhat greater than the average age of analogue mtb riders. There comes a time/age when low intensity cardio vascular exercise is far more beneficial and less harmfull than high intensity exercise, and if your aim is to increase muscle and stamina I'm afraid you will have largely missed the bus physically anyway

Could not have said better mself

 

[CarbonMan]

Yes. There is no junk miles. All exercise is good for you.

Greg LeMond once said "It never gets any easier. You just go faster.". I've found I work harder on my ebike cuz i can go much faster if I do. Rather than just slogging up a long hill in lowest gear on my analog bike ("no need to kill myself, we'll get to the top eventually"), I will push harder on the ebike because the faster I go, the harder I'll work to keep going fast. The only difference with the ebike is I ride farther than I would've on the analog bike. I'm getting more of a workout with the ebike, and enjoying it immensely.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Well I think the consensus is generally that ebikes do not make one lazy or unfit and in their own way cause just as much exertion as a non-ebike. It is easier but for longer and it is faster but just as much effort on the hills and good for people who are not as fit -- and never will be as fit -- as extreme MTBers. Before I bought one I did think that it was the cheating, lazy-person's way of cycling, I now know that that is far from the case and regret buying one not at all.

 

[Truckee Robert]

I say yes...mostly, but I have to ride longer and faster. Which is as fun as hell!(So, it probably won't be as efficient as an analogue/acoustic/standard bike). And I can ride the next day unlike a non E-mtb due to slower recovery time likely from the dreaded age-related decrease in metabolism

I’m a Sports therapist and w bike owner for 2 yrs. At 63 and in good shape it’s a better way to get and stay in shape. Because you can ride 4-5 days a week consistently with a 30+ mile day once a week you get in really good shape faster because of volume. The intensity is the biggest variable but yes early season Eco only gets you in shape.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I’m a Sports therapist and w bike owner for 2 yrs. At 63 and in good shape it’s a better way to get and stay in shape. Because you can ride 4-5 days a week consistently with a 30+ mile day once a week you get in really good shape faster because of volume. The intensity is the biggest variable but yes early season Eco only gets you in shape.

Totally...with pedal-assist volume is faster, funner, and fitness-achievable in Eco-mode especially And if one is good with nature's singletrack...longer commune time for mental stress reduction

 

[StuB]

Yeah all these shaved leg cyclists are not real men on their pedal bikes.

The guy you're talking about has quite hairy legs.

 

[StuB]

Real men push their DH sled up the mountain.

The "mountain" in this case was a hill that I've seen ridden up on a DH rig