Helmet - yes or no or it depends?

[Gary]

That would explain why meth addicts have none; they sell them to pay for their habit . helmet

 

[Gary]

QFT

Cyclists should be aware of the risks they are taking, then decide if they are happy to accept those risks or try to reduce them.

some common sense here at last. Thanks Dax

Being more serious for a second I've actually suffered well into double figures in concusions in my life. The majority of which had absolutely nothing to do with bicycles though.
I now know an awful lot about head injury (and yes my medical history does explain quite a lot about my personality).

 

[R120]

Gary isn't saying that its not a good idea to wear a helmet, and I am pretty sure he would advocate that wearing one is a good idea, he just saying that he doesn't , and that his decision.

 

[Pdoz]

In Garys defense , there are times that I also feel wearing a helmet poses a risk.

My 10 yo has " moderately severe " autism , on a bad day I estimate the distraction of wearing a helmet outweighs the potential benefit he gets from one, and if it was legal in Australia I would allow him to remove it. It's absolutely terrifying watching him ride along a trail weaving towards trees because he's started noticing the straps. From a purely cognitive perspective, I honestly don't think the science tells us that the reduction in head injury severity outweighs what I percieve as HIS increased accident potential. But from an emotional perspective, I'm almost glad I don't get to make that choice - if he did sustain a head injury I'd never be able to forgive myself.

Nb this is an emotional decision, and we really should seperate our emotional response of thinking you CAN do something from knowing you SHOULD. The science tells us that traditional bike helmets only provide a small reduction in the severity of head injury. Looking at a person with significant head injuries and believing that would have been prevented by a traditional lid is NOT scientific - that's emotional. I mentioned earlier the differences between taking medical advice from a trauma surgeon vs a public health doctor - crunching the numbers on health decisions isn't as easy as looking at a single unfortunate victim. At the risk of getting horribly sidetracked , if we looked at stroke victims there would be an argument for compulsory asprin in the water.....but the science has evolved and we ( think) that is no longer such a good idea....

 

[Pdoz]

Ps , I'm a father of 3 , my 14 yo wears a full face , the 12 yo SHOULD be wearing one but refuses to ride if I make her so I let her take the risks of wearing a traditional lid because I feel the mental + physical health benefits of cycling outweigh her head injury risk . The 10 yo, see above - he wears the most comfortable / least distracting lid I could find for him. A full face is simply not an option

 

[Gary]

Clearly you enjoy being divisive for the sake of being divisive,

funny thing that
in this very thread 98% of this forum's members have voted they wear a helmet most of the time.
Am i really being devisive for the sake of it when I've simply been 100% honest about when and why I do or don't wear a helmet?

i'm not sure if you even realise it but every comment here stating not wearing a hlemet is stupid/dangerous/ignorant/irresponsible/vain etc. and every overly dramatic story of life changing injury is actually far more devisive. ie. an attack against my personal choices.
i'm a big boy and I can cope with others opinions just fine. but don't expect me not to put my perspective/point across when faced with ignorance and scorn on my choice.
FWIW I've never advised a single rider not to wear a helmet.
i'm a qualified mtb trail leader and a parent and when leading/coaching groups ALL participants MUST wear a helmet.
how about offering me the same respect for my choices?

 

[R120]

Its funny when you have kids - I never wore a helmet when I learnt,didn't wear one when I learnt to drop in on halfpipe on a bmx and on a skateboard, and didn't wear one for the many years I spent snowboarding and competing in snowboarding full time - now I have kids I am a proper helicopter parent, and make sure they always where helmets - however they seem think they are pretty cool, so its never been a hassle

 

[R120]

I also think that a lot of the helmet science is misleading - for example if I am commuting round London, IMO a road helmet designed to be as light as possible and take a single impact is not wha I want to wear, my helmet of choice is a dirt jump style skid lid with a proper hard shell that's designed to take a beating, a bit of glorified polystirene with a fancy paint job is going to do f-all again a curb or car.

 

[Gary]

@Pdoz I also have an autistic child (aspie and 28 now) and totally agree with your viewpoint on the distractive aspect a helmet can have with people with ASD.
@R120 I've never worn a helmet while riding with my any of my kids. My youngest (9 yr old) is the real keen one when it comes to bikes (and sport in general) and the only time she's really ever seen me wear a helmet is when we both raced BMX and did training/gate practice together. She's always worn one if riding BMX/mtb off road, pump track or skate park or on open roads but uses her own common sense and doesn't bother when playing in the park with her friends next to her mum's house etc. You're right. it's far more the norm these days for kids to wear a helmet. And that is a good thing.
Occasionally little kids pull me up for not wearing one... it's quite cute when a little kid does it... the older they get... the less so

 

[Pdoz]

I also think that a lot of the helmet science is misleading - for example if I am commuting round London, IMO a road helmet designed to be as light as possible and take a single impact is not wha I want to wear, my helmet of choice is a dirt jump style skid lid with a proper hard shell that's designed to take a beating, a bit of glorified polystirene with a fancy paint job is going to do f-all again a curb or car.

That's because most of our helmet science has observer error - science has become an industry funded by pen pushers trying to justify decisions already made , often in response to pressure from special interest groups. Look at the dates of most of the Australian science on helmet use - it was published AFTER helmets became compulsory, and the same names keep popping up with exactly the same " yes, my boss was right" answers.....meanwhile European science is telling us a completely different story....

 

[Sandy]

Advice to a child? Yes.
to a grown adult? keep it to yourself.

I'm not setting an example. or telling anyone else how to live their lives. I've no need to.

The thing is, as an adult, not wearing a helmet in public, and doing risking bike riding you kinda are telling people how to lead their lives. Lead by example.

*edit* I see you mention being picked up by kids for not wearing a helmet. That's good!

You get a brain injury don't blame me. I've been there, done that! Your more talented than me, your probably Luckier too, but fate is a cruel bitch. So worth weighing that up.

End of sermon, nothing to see.

 

[Gary]

The thing is, as an adult, not wearing a helmet in public, and doing risking bike riding you kinda are telling people how to lead their lives.

What?
No. i'm not.
FFS! do you feel compelled to do every other thing you see others out doing in public too?
I do actually wear a helmet when I deem there to be sufficient risk of hitting my head.
you know... by actual real life practical risk assesment. planning and weighing up the chance of injury.
the thing is.. .if i see a section of track or a jump and I thought... mmmm... I wouldn't want to try and ride that without a helmet on. I'm already doubting my own skill/ability but if i'm 100% sure I'll be able to ride it perfectly it's more than likely going to go as planned with no mishap at all.

*edit* I see you mention being picked up by kids for not wearing a helmet. That's good!

it's not really. like i said it's cute when it's a little kid but that still doesn't make it ok.
For one thing the children aren't thinking for themselves. They're simply mimicking the adults (like you) who have ingrained the need for wearing a helmet into them. and applying it to what (for me) is a very low risk scenario. sorry but fuck off and mind your own business. (not that I'd say those words out loud to a child).
and secondly it's not really acceptable to go around telling other people how to live their lives by YOUR rules when they are breaking no rules or laws themselves.
Kids are naive and inexperienced socially though. most adults don't (shouldn't) have that same excuse.

You get a brain injury don't blame me.

I won't.
kind of a douchey thing to say though don't you think?

I tend to lose respect pretty quickly for folk who makes stupid comments like that.
The wink emoji doesn't really excuse it.

 

[flash]

At the risk of getting horribly sidetracked , if we looked at stroke victims there would be an argument for compulsory asprin in the water.....but the science has evolved and we ( think) that is no longer such a good idea....

Some people, like myself, are quite allergic to Asprin and other anti-inflammatories.

Gordon

 

[flash]

If helmets don't help, why then, are they compulsory in every competitive discipline of cycling, world wide, even in countries where recreational use is voluntary?

Gordon

 

[Gary]

They're not
road TT and hill climb for example you can still race with no helmet.
the risks of head injury in racing are far greater. Road racing in a tight bunch elbow to elbow at 30mph on tarmac for instance , 8 BMX racers hitting a 40ft jump neck and neck at 35mph. DH/enduro racers pushing the bike to it's limits of grip against the clock. etc. etc.
plus governing body ruling, liabilty, event risk assesment and insurance all come into it
We're not talking about racing here though are we?

 

[Pdoz]

If helmets don't help, why then, are they compulsory in every competitive discipline of cycling, world wide, even in countries where recreational use is voluntary?

Gordon

Because of the impulse to be seen to be doing something, and the fear that when things go horribly wrong the organisers are going to be held accountable for someone else's decision / bad luck. There is a huge difference between what is scientifically sensible and what is worth defending in a court of public opinion / jury by lay people etc.

Would I let someone else's child ride a bike on my property without a lid? Absolutely not - even if their parent said it was ok. Life is too short to be dragged through the legal system.

Would I let my child ride around without a lid? To be honest, at low ( running) speeds , it's their choice. But if they want to go hit the table top .....full armour and full face....mostly because putting all that stuff on reminds them that they may fall off.

 

[R120]

The Crankworks tour made full faces compulsory this year for their dirt jump events - Matt Jones did a video on how he was having to spend a lot of time practicing with a full face on as he basically had to recalibrate a lot of his muscle memory to get use to the reduced vision compared to his usual lid.

I think there is a whole other conversation to be had about the right helmet for the job, and helmet fit.

My kids ( 6 and 4) got Specilized helmets on a deal when we got their last bikes, great quality, etc etc - however the fit is not good, they sit high on their heads, move around a lot (despite having a BOA adjustor) unless the strap is super tight (which obviously then annoys them) and after a couple of rides with them I could see that in any sort of proper crash they where not going to do anything as they would likely move too much, or slip off their heads.

They now have these helmets from Decathlon ( a company that never fails to impress me with well thought out products as decent prices). The sit properly over their heads, rather than on them, have a great retention system which means the helmets dont move around, the kids find them a lot comfier to wear, and they survive the rough and tumble of the kids chucking them on the floor, back of the car etc, whereas with the Specialised one tantrum and thrown helmet and the helmet will be going in the bin due to the damage.

15 - Cycling - Teen 520 Cycling Helmet - Neon

 

[Mad Mark]

I agree with Gary here, it is all about personal choice
I choose to wear one.....probably because I'm not as good a rider as Gary
Each to their own.....this started as a survey......not an attack on each other's opinion's

 

[ottoshape]

Advice to a child? Yes.
Advice to a grown adult? keep it to yourself.
-
I'm not setting an example. or telling anyone else how to live their lives.

-
I agree 1000% with not telling anyone else how to live BUT I will listen to suggestions, evaluate them and adopt as practice if sound.

 

[ottoshape]

This IS a survey......not an attack on each other's opinion's

FTFY... It is beneath the eMTB membership to devolve into personal attacks.

 

[Coolbanana]

I always wear a helmet - a throwback to my racing days where it is mandatory. But it is my road bike helmet, not an MTB one. So I'm kinda used to wearing one since the 80's.

When I go to Amsterdam for a few days each month, I don't wear one at all, like the vast majority of mostly commuting Amsterdammers.

I'd always advocate that wearing one is sensible though, irrespective of how good a rider you think you are. Accidents happen, bad falls can lead to head injuries if your luck runs out. The only bicycle-related head injury I suffered was a BMX crash when I was a teenager that needed several stitches but I'd sooner have at least some head protection than none even though that was a long time ago and I've not had a crash like that since.

 

[Gary]

FWIW my worst concussions were all from a head impact while walking or running.
Isn't it odd how few people wear head protection doing those activities?
and how few stories of death or serious injury to pedestrians recommend wearing it.

Makes you think, eh?

 

[Jamsxr]

I've probably spent well over £100k on bikes and riding. Of course I can afford one. I currently have six helmets. (two of which retailed for £300)
Yes. unless you're some sort of mutant or have a comb over or something you're obviously going to look better not wearing a bulky piece of plastic covered polystyrene strapped to your head and yes they can make a right mess of some folks beautiful hair.
But none of those are my "main" reason for not wearing one.
my main reasons are that I absolutely can't stand the feeling of wearing one. They're all uncomfortable and I get too hot wearing them.
I honestly don't feel I need one for 99.9% of rides. I feel free without one. and also ride acordingly. I'm no beginner at this and know my limits incredibly well.

I have hit my head while wearing one and without. But I've also hit my head far more times and more severely while not even on a bike (obviously not wearing a helmet) Folk go on and on about how cycle helmets save lives. Reality is it's just a piece of polystyrene. if it makes you feel safer great. And yes. it may make a difference to a head impact but in many circumstances it's not even going to help. and in others it can actually increase the severity of injury.

At the end of the day what I choose to wear is entirely my own personal choice and no one but me even needs to understand any of those choices.

I don't wear any other sort of protection either. ie. knee pads, gloves etc. for similar reasons

You’re a (self proclaimed) legend mate ?

 

[Coolbanana]

FWIW my worst concussions were all from a head impact while walking or running.
Isn't it odd how few people wear head protection doing those activities?
and how few stories of death or serious injury to pedestrians recommend wearing it.

Makes you think, eh?

I think most people can walk or run without falling heavily, some can't but most can. With cycling even experienced riders can slip or miscalculate and come off and falling from a bike can be worse if you are unlucky. But the choice is with the individual. We each make our own risk assessment and for me, wearing one is no issue at all, so I may as well.

 

[Gary]

I think most people can walk or run without falling heavily, some can't but most can.

Falls (not from a bicycle) are actually the leading cause of TBI worldwide by quite a large factor.
Next is motor vehicle accidents

What helmet do you wear in your car?

 

[Jamsxr]

Falls (not from a bicycle) are actually the leading cause of TBI worldwide by quite a large factor.
Next is motor vehicle accidents

What helmet do you wear in your car?

It’s called a seatbelt, maybe you don’t wear one as it allows you to be free..

To be fair, you have spent 100k on bikes so you know what you’re talking about ?

 

[Gary]

To be fair, you have spent 100k on bikes so you know what you’re talking about ?

*sigh*
the estimated £100k I mentioned is an under estimate and has been spent on bikes and riding. Not just bikes. (I have owned somewhere close to 200 bikes over the years). By "bikes and riding" I'm referring to the cost of biking ie. bikes, consumables/spares, clothing/protection, accessories, racing/travel etc. over a 30yr preiod that's less than £4k a year.
I spent 15 years regularly racing bikes. Try racing bikes competitively for a year on a budget of less than £4k?
The only thing i've spent more on in my lifetime is drugs. alcohol and partying.

A seatbelt doesn't stop concussion/TBI

 

[pegasus]

Asking the question in the first place is going to cause people to comment no matter what so all of us have got to respect each others opinions. My opinion is no different to some one else's, I choose to wear a lid no matter what type of riding I do, I had no choice when I rode horses and motor bikes, and being a nurse I've seen far too much injury head wise. Each to their own...

 

[Dax]

What helmet do you wear in your car?

Stilo wrc des carbon, when appropriate.

 

[flash]

Falls (not from a bicycle) are actually the leading cause of TBI worldwide by quite a large factor.
Next is motor vehicle accidents

What helmet do you wear in your car?

My car has seat belts and 8 airbags. If my bikes had those I wouldn't wear a helmet when riding.

However, I do agree it's your choice to wear one or not. I also think if you make that choice you should be on your own when it comes to possible expenses incurred if you do have a helmet helping injury. Problem is not many people who take extra risks won't put their hand up when it all goes pear shaped.

Gordon