The E-mtb "Fitness" question: is it achievable in "eco" power mode (or the lowest equivalent)...Yes? No? Maybe?

[Mikerb]

I would guess for the majority of us " fitness" actually means good health rather than the development of muscle and muscle stamina. Good health does of course require exercise but equally important are diet and lifestyle. Professional athletes invariably have professional support to ensure all of those elements are monitored and maximised but it worries me a little that non pros merely relate effort expended to potential fitness increase when in reality they could be doing more damage than good to their health. I think it has been shown that the average age of EMTB owners is somewhat greater than the average age of analogue mtb riders. There comes a time/age when low intensity cardio vascular exercise is far more beneficial and less harmfull than high intensity exercise, and if your aim is to increase muscle and stamina I'm afraid you will have largely missed the bus physically anyway

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I would guess for the majority of us " fitness" actually means good health rather than the development of muscle and muscle stamina. Good health does of course require exercise but equally important are diet and lifestyle. Professional athletes invariably have professional support to ensure all of those elements are monitored and maximised but it worries me a little that non pros merely relate effort expended to potential fitness increase when in reality they could be doing more damage than good to their health. I think it has been shown that the average age of EMTB owners is somewhat greater than the average age of analogue mtb riders. There comes a time/age when low intensity cardio vascular exercise is far more beneficial and less harmfull than high intensity exercise, and if your aim is to increase muscle and stamina I'm afraid you will have largely missed the bus physically anyway

That's why I'm really looking forward to dropping 10 lbs on a medium powered E-mtb like the Trek Ex-e/Transition Relay (if I can afford it)...be nice not have to hit weight room more just to deadlift my full powered E-mtbs back on the hitch rack after a long ride as another poster mentioned.

 

[Zed]

be nice not have to hit weight room more just to deadlift my full powered E-mtbs back on the hitch rack

I dunno man, someone who can't lift a 25kg bike onto a rack probably should hit the weight room a bit more

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I dunno man, someone who can't lift a 25kg bike onto a rack probably should hit the weight room a bit more

Haha....I admit it! I should be frequenting the gym more...but definitely not gonna do deadlift exercises in my future. That torture is for the younglings.

Regardless, a 10 lb lighter Transition Relay will indeed help my lower back regardless of the gym and poor lower body technique. I just now have to start saving for the 2025 model in order to avoid selling a kidney or taking out a second mortgage.

 

[F4Flyer]

If we are talking about cycling strength relative to a regular MTB, it is VERY hard to achieve it with an e-bike even on Eco setting. Health- yes! Cycling strength- much less likely. When using the eMTB a lot, my strength/power decreases. I use it now as my secondary bike.

 

[Zed]

If we are talking about cycling strength relative to a regular MTB, it is VERY hard to achieve it with an e-bike even on Eco setting. Health- yes! Cycling strength- much less likely. When using the eMTB a lot, my strength/power decreases. I use it now as my secondary bike.

Yeah for sure. If you want to ride an Amish bike well uphill, then you need to ride an Amish bike uphill. Golden rule of fitness specificity. That fitness though is only specific to that activity (unless one has some quite weird other activities like for example alpine road cycling). It doesn't really help in other areas of life, it's not a longevity/illness avoidance/weight loss thing - it just helps for riding an Amish bike uphill. I think it can be very suitably replaced by some barbell squats or similar when one makes the switch to eeb.

I just get the idea people have a lot of guilt about riding ebikes that's quite silly (not at all saying you do F4Flyer, but it just seems to be a theme). My angle is if you have no intention of grinding up hills on a motor-free bike for fun(?!?)/competition/masochism, there really is no point in doing so.

And yeah, ebikes have changed all that.

 

[Mikerb]

I dunno man, someone who can't lift a 25kg bike onto a rack probably should hit the weight room a bit more

Nobody,no matter how strong should be using their lower back to lift 10kg let alone 25 kg. Lifting an ebike whether onto a workstand or a rack..or over a gate... is more about technique than strength. Assuming you can crouch and then stand upright without using your hands, your quads are capable of lifting the rest of you bodyweight...so certainly capable of lifting an Ebike. The essence of the technique is to bend your legs whilst keeping your back straight ( no necessarilly vertical), tuck your elbows into your body and grab the bike at the level of your hands. That will mot probably be on a seat stay with one hand and under the downtube a bout a third of the way down. Then just straighten your legs. Be as close as possible to the rack or workstand. You do not need any gym time or weight training to do it that way.

 

[Zed]

Nobody,no matter how strong should be using their lower back to lift 10kg let alone 25 kg. Lifting an ebike whether onto a workstand or a rack..or over a gate... is more about technique than strength. Assuming you can crouch and then stand upright without using your hands, your quads are capable of lifting the rest of you bodyweight...so certainly capable of lifting an Ebike. The essence of the technique is to bend your legs whilst keeping your back straight ( no necessarilly vertical), tuck your elbows into your body and grab the bike at the level of your hands. That will mot probably be on a seat stay with one hand and under the downtube a bout a third of the way down. Then just straighten your legs. Be as close as possible to the rack or workstand. You do not need any gym time or weight training to do it that way.

True enough. Technique is everything. Get under it and lift with the legs.

 

[F4Flyer]

Yeah for sure. If you want to ride an Amish bike well uphill, then you need to ride an Amish bike uphill. Golden rule of fitness specificity. That fitness though is only specific to that activity (unless one has some quite weird other activities like for example alpine road cycling). It doesn't really help in other areas of life, it's not a longevity/illness avoidance/weight loss thing - it just helps for riding an Amish bike uphill. I think it can be very suitably replaced by some barbell squats or similar when one makes the switch to eeb.

I just get the idea people have a lot of guilt about riding ebikes that's quite silly (not at all saying you do F4Flyer, but it just seems to be a theme). My angle is if you have no intention of grinding up hills on a motor-free bike for fun(?!?)/competition/masochism, there really is no point in doing so.

And yeah, ebikes have changed all that.

I have suffered climbing in Colorado for so long (since 2004) that not suffering on climbs has become boring. I think it changed my DNA. It is a challenge I relish. My ebike gets me out more often though, and I usually take it easy and enjoy those rides in a different way, I guess. I'll hang it up someday and go all e-bike, I am sure.

 

[F4Flyer]

Oh, one other interesting thing. My buddy has a Levo SL too. Sine he does not use his regular mountain bike anymore, his fitness has fallen. So we are the same weight and were pretty evenly matched on the MTBs. He stopped riding the regular MTB about 6-7 months ago. So now when we ride together, he has to stay on TRAIL or middle setting on climbs while I stay on ECO. Only then is his heart rate similar to mine and he can keep up. If I jump to TRAIL, he drops off and has to jump to TURBO mode. Anyway, the result is that on a 15-mile ride with 2500 ft of climbing, I am left with 60% battery and he is left with 25% battery. I like that!

 

[Zed]

Oh, one other interesting thing. My buddy has a Levo SL too. Sine he does not use his regular mountain bike anymore, his fitness has fallen. So we are the same weight and were pretty evenly matched on the MTBs. He stopped riding the regular MTB about 6-7 months ago. So now when we ride together, he has to stay on TRAIL or middle setting on climbs while I stay on ECO. Only then is his heart rate similar to mine and he can keep up. If I jump to TRAIL, he drops off and has to jump to TURBO mode. Anyway, the result is that on a 15-mile ride with 2500 ft of climbing, I am left with 60% battery and he is left with 25% battery. I like that!

Of course maybe when you guys rode regular bikes, he was 35% more knackered then too

I think that difference would of course mostly (but still not completely) evaporate with 90nm bikes, you're less than half ebiking I suppose on the SL. But the undeniable factor here is he isn't pushing the pedals as hard as he did (if he's lost strength). But he could. The motor isn't stopping him from doing that.

It's funny though I mean there really is nothing stopping a person from standing up in Trail and driving hard up hills at a great rate of knots on a full fat. You don't HAVE to sit back and let the bike do it all. It's still power to weight and your legs are adding to the power. I admit you don't have a choice to lower your heart rate on a non-e bike and that is different. But if I strive to go fast on an ebike I work plenty hard. A lot of my Turbo rides I'm shooting for a higher average speed around ALL my local trails. My heart rate is high, my legs are sore as afterwards, but the ebike lets me recover when I overshoot with the lactic acid and managing that is part of the game of trying for that higher average. The difference is you can do these high intensity rides but also do longer lower intensity days, all on real trails on a capable bike.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

If we are talking about cycling strength relative to a regular MTB, it is VERY hard to achieve it with an e-bike even on Eco setting. Health- yes! Cycling strength- much less likely. When using the eMTB a lot, my strength/power decreases. I use it now as my secondary bike.

I hear ya! I just sold off my analogues to help fund me Es...that way I wouldn't switch between the two. I knew from riding analogue with friends and seeing climbing skill/cardio diminish noticeably, that I wouldn't be able to straddle both worlds well

For me, absolutely no regrets. Plus, I don't think I'm feeling guilty abt loss of fitness...I got me spin bike for fat loss. I do see more and more E-mtbers in my area to seek kinship with and share "guilty pleasure" for the PAS.

However, I did keep my little 10 spd dirt jumper to practice some slow tech skills/tiny bump/drop training in the backyard.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Nobody,no matter how strong should be using their lower back to lift 10kg let alone 25 kg. Lifting an ebike whether onto a workstand or a rack..or over a gate... is more about technique than strength. Assuming you can crouch and then stand upright without using your hands, your quads are capable of lifting the rest of you bodyweight...so certainly capable of lifting an Ebike. The essence of the technique is to bend your legs whilst keeping your back straight ( no necessarilly vertical), tuck your elbows into your body and grab the bike at the level of your hands. That will mot probably be on a seat stay with one hand and under the downtube a bout a third of the way down. Then just straighten your legs. Be as close as possible to the rack or workstand. You do not need any gym time or weight training to do it that way.

technique matters...but bending at my knees hurts, so I'm gonna still do weight training for the lower back stability at least. I do have my 65 lb fat E-mtb (as opposed to my enduro rig 49+ lb) that I would have to clean-and-jerk/snatch (?) to get it over a fence...In the past, I literally have doubled-back a short ways to avoid that section of trail. I figured, if I have enough battery to go around when possible...avoid the fence! I know, I'm a wuss

 

[F4Flyer]

Of course maybe when you guys rode regular bikes, he was 35% more knackered then too

I think that difference would of course mostly (but still not completely) evaporate with 90nm bikes, you're less than half ebiking I suppose on the SL. But the undeniable factor here is he isn't pushing the pedals as hard as he did (if he's lost strength). But he could. The motor isn't stopping him from doing that.

It's funny though I mean there really is nothing stopping a person from standing up in Trail and driving hard up hills at a great rate of knots on a full fat. You don't HAVE to sit back and let the bike do it all. It's still power to weight and your legs are adding to the power. I admit you don't have a choice to lower your heart rate on a non-e bike and that is different. But if I strive to go fast on an ebike I work plenty hard. A lot of my Turbo rides I'm shooting for a higher average speed around ALL my local trails. My heart rate is high, my legs are sore as afterwards, but the ebike lets me recover when I overshoot with the lactic acid and managing that is part of the game of trying for that higher average. The difference is you can do these high intensity rides but also do longer lower intensity days, all on real trails on a capable bike.

Yeah, he could push it hard but does not seem to like the suffering anymore. He is much younger (53 vs. 36) and a few years ago, he was stronger and rode a few multi-day rides and his times were fast. I still have not beaten some of his climbing times. Then he got lazy or something but it is fine. When we ride, we climb a lot so I let him just do his thing. When I take my regular bike, I let him lead and I struggle to keep up. It is good training for me then. I do like that he is not as strong as he used to be (especially on a road bike). I think he actually enjoys riding more now and even on the road, he usually follows instead of taking off like a pedal-spinning rabbit. Tomorrow I ride my road bike to climb, Thu regular MTB, Fri recovery e-bike then Sat a long MTB ride, after which I rest for two days. Due to the e-bike, I ride more frequently.

Sometimes I tell him to do what I do- shut off the motor and climb for a few minutes. He has not taken up that challenge yet. Maybe that is a good thing. I need to not get a heart attack.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Preach

Of course maybe when you guys rode regular bikes, he was 35% more knackered then too

I think that difference would of course mostly (but still not completely) evaporate with 90nm bikes, you're less than half ebiking I suppose on the SL. But the undeniable factor here is he isn't pushing the pedals as hard as he did (if he's lost strength). But he could. The motor isn't stopping him from doing that.

It's funny though I mean there really is nothing stopping a person from standing up in Trail and driving hard up hills at a great rate of knots on a full fat. You don't HAVE to sit back and let the bike do it all. It's still power to weight and your legs are adding to the power. I admit you don't have a choice to lower your heart rate on a non-e bike and that is different. But if I strive to go fast on an ebike I work plenty hard. A lot of my Turbo rides I'm shooting for a higher average speed around ALL my local trails. My heart rate is high, my legs are sore as afterwards, but the ebike lets me recover when I overshoot with the lactic acid and managing that is part of the game of trying for that higher average. The difference is you can do these high intensity rides but also do longer lower intensity days, all on real trails on a capable bike.

Amen preach brother....full power charge attack stance is fast and fun and gets it done for max HR! I just go short bursts, sustained max effort requires fitness beyond my mortal level and that elites/pros have? Allegedly, the Dutch Olympic XC teams ride off/rest-training days at E-mtb full power to learn to ride faster...it's fair to say they're in better than average shape for sure

 

[Zed]

Tomorrow I ride my road bike to climb, Thu regular MTB, Fri recovery e-bike then Sat a long MTB ride, after which I rest for two days. Due to the e-bike, I ride more frequently.

Hmm yeah you are definitely still getting quite a kick out of pedalling. To be honest I wish I did too. Alas, it is not so...

 

[F4Flyer]

I'm just trying to fight the 50s, at this point. Heck, I had my first child (and only child) at 50, so I have no choice. It is my only passion, besides spending time with my little human.

 

[Zed]

I'm just trying to fight the 50s, at this point. Heck, I had my first child (and only child) at 50, so I have no choice. It is my only passion, besides spending time with my little human.

Yeah I'm in a similar place I guess. I'm 47 and have a 10 year old I'm co parenting, with little else exciting going on in life. I do have a ute, a Levo on the way, and now I have every second weekend to myself I can actually get out and see our country on a eeb.

 

[ilostmypassword]

A good balanced diet and Ebiking work well for me

 

[Zed]

sustained max effort requires fitness beyond my mortal level and that elites/pros have? Allegedly, the Dutch Olympic XC teams ride off/rest-training days at E-mtb full power to learn to ride faster...

Here's the thing that wasn't obvious to an average person like me. Pros of all sports rarely hit sustained max efforts, especially so for endurance. Because it doesn't make you improve.

You can look into this and you'll find it to be true. So when someone like me goes out and kills himself for 2 hours climbing steep trails averaging 85%+ of max heart rate - this is much more intensity than any successful athlete will be training. Race day maybe, but not training - because it's wayyy too much. Improvement comes from a light stressor and then repairing to adapt, where these full-on efforts are too much damage to recover from and that recovering takes many days and so by the time you train again you haven't actually recovered from last time.

The ebike lets us do lighter efforts that are healthier. You can mix in more intense rides. Meter it out as appropriate.

You could do all this on a road bike, picking the right terrain and training variables, of course. But I feel very lucky I have the ebike option to actually make it fun.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

A good balanced diet and Ebiking work well for me

And post-ride microbrew

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Here's the thing that wasn't obvious to an average person like me. Pros of all sports rarely hit sustained max efforts, especially so for endurance. Because it doesn't make you improve.

You can look into this and you'll find it to be true. So when someone like me goes out and kills himself for 2 hours climbing steep trails averaging 85%+ of max heart rate - this is much more intensity than any successful athlete will be training. Race day maybe, but not training - because it's wayyy too much. Improvement comes from a light stressor and then repairing to adapt, where these full-on efforts are too much damage to recover from and that recovering takes many days and so by the time you train again you haven't actually recovered from last time.

The ebike lets us do lighter efforts that are healthier. You can mix in more intense rides. Meter it out as appropriate.

You could do all this on a road bike, picking the right terrain and training variables, of course. But I feel very lucky I have the ebike option to actually make it fun.

Riding the adventurous singletrack is where is at for Mtbers...happy I can now E-them and get "ecological mental fitness" and eco-fitness (well many of them anyway at least until our US Forest Servives legalizes non-throttle/20 mph Class 1). Soon please.

 

[F4Flyer]

I did give up alcohol mostly. I don't drink on a regular basis nor much at home. I'm so busy that I don't miss it, though some weekends I'll go to this ski resort and drink this amazing rum concoction. I hope that is good for my health, though ten years from now we will get a study that says mostly giving up alcohol late in life, is deadly.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I did give up alcohol mostly. I don't drink on a regular basis nor much at home. I'm so busy that I don't miss it, though some weekends I'll go to this ski resort and drink this amazing rum concoction. I hope that is good for my health, though ten years from now we will get a study that says mostly giving up alcohol late in life, is deadly.

Only one post-ride stout...I swear️unless a hottie female E-mtber is buying rounds. Hey, it could happen...

 

[F4Flyer]

All rules are out of the window if a hot female comes into the picture. This I know well, though not lately. Now my kid is a charming and handsome little bugger and attract females, but the pesky wife is always around when he is.

 

[Zed]

I did give up alcohol mostly. I don't drink on a regular basis nor much at home. I'm so busy that I don't miss it, though some weekends I'll go to this ski resort and drink this amazing rum concoction. I hope that is good for my health, though ten years from now we will get a study that says mostly giving up alcohol late in life, is deadly.

I'm an absolute glutton when I drink. So I drink extremely rarely these days, only when I forget how painful the hangovers are

The old 'red wine a day is healthy' is being shown as false. Basically, science is now saying no amount of ethanol is good to be imbibing. Who'd have thought ingesting a neurotoxin wasn't good for you?!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I'm an absolute glutton when I drink. So I drink extremely rarely these days, only when I forget how painful the hangovers are

The old 'red wine a day is healthy' is being shown as false. Basically, science is now saying no amount of ethanol is good to be imbibing. Who'd have thought ingesting a neurotoxin wasn't good for you?!

No, damn scientists! Well, I consider my heavy, syrupy stout more of a "meal" anyway...does that count against my health?

 

[Zed]

No, damn scientists! Well, I consider my heavy, syrupy stout more of a "meal" anyway...does that count against my health?

I'm sure actually drinking "responsibly" is fine

Fine as in the risks while increased, are not increased enough to be concerned about.

I'm just not capable of drinking "responsibly". I did give it about 3678 tries to make sure though.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I'm sure actually drinking "responsibly" is fine

Fine as in the risks while increased, are not increased enough to be concerned about.

I'm just not capable of drinking "responsibly". I did give it about 3678 tries to make sure though.

Well, persistence works...stay strong

 

[RipGroove]

i used to have a 38inc waste im now down to 34inc and 65kg and i only use turbo mode spinning those cranks at 120rpm is a work out on its own

i still eat crap and drink cider but did over 100 miles last month

This, I've found the higher cadence that e-MTBs require for climbing is where the workout comes from, spinning the cranks definitely gets the heart rate up.