The E-mtb "Fitness" question: is it achievable in "eco" power mode (or the lowest equivalent)...Yes? No? Maybe?

[TCFlowClyde]

I say yes...mostly, but I have to ride longer and faster. Which is as fun as hell!(So, it probably won't be as efficient as an analogue/acoustic/standard bike). And I can ride the next day unlike a non E-mtb due to slower recovery time likely from the dreaded age-related decrease in metabolism

 

[Alexbn921]

Yes. There is no junk miles. All exercise is good for you.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yes. There is no junk miles. All exercise is good for you.

. Especially when E-exercising on sweet singletrack!

 

[Doomanic]

"Climbing on an eeb isn't really climbing"

Said to me by a bloke on a FF Kenevo at the top of Feed the Pony after I made it to the top on my KSL blowing out of my arse...

"My heart rate would beg to differ" was my panted response. I then had a little lie down.

Yes. There is no junk miles. All exercise is good for you.

This is absolutely true, as long as you accept that you need to actually exert yourself so blasting to work in Turbo and not breaking a sweat isn't exercise.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

"Climbing on an eeb isn't really climbing"

Said to me by a bloke on a FF Kenevo at the top of Feed the Pony after I made it to the top on my KSL blowing out of my arse...

"My heart rate would beg to differ" was my panted response. I then had a little lie down.


This is absolutely true, as long as you accept that you need to actually exert yourself so blasting to work in Turbo and not breaking a sweat isn't exercise.

Hahaha . Turbo is amazingly fun (an aneorbic burst for me) especially when pumping the pedals on the trail for extra speed...it's just less aerobically energetic exercise in comparison to "slogging" an ascent in eco-mode maybe? So, likely turbo is a less aerobic "fitness" form of exercise.

 

[Doomanic]

Should that be 1000 miles?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

i used to have a 38inc waste im now down to 34inc and 65kg and i only use turbo mode spinning those cranks at 120rpm is a work out on its own

i still eat crap and drink cider but did over 100 miles last month

U might be the exception to rule. I definitely see the HiIT "high intensity interval training" , occasionally turbo/boost mode mixed in with predominant eco as my fat burning strategy Here's to dropping my Covid gut fat still hanging on stubbornly on my waist

 

[Cb750stu]

I use my gravel bike for serious miles and exercise, I still do a load of miles on my Spesh but it's mostly for going for a good blast in "FTM" with pals and trying to beat their times on Strava

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Should that be 1000 miles?

1000 miles of singletrack a month would be an awesome fitness achievement! Been doing 15-20 per ride 4 or 5 times per week, so average 70 mi/wk x 4 = 280 mi/month mixed terrain. Usually start about an hour each ride in eco mode, then remaining ride trail mode with turbo spikes on punchy climbs for max fun-n-flow!

 

[Doomanic]

1000 miles of singletrack a month would be an awesome fitness achievement!

It would, but I think Shockwave mostly shreds pedestrian precincts...

 

[TCFlowClyde]

It would, but I think Shockwave mostly shreds pedestrian precincts...

Ahhh! I see....I should've put more emphasis on "dirt" singletrack with my initial query

 

[flash]

The difference on an eMTB is you often *can* take it easier than you could on a regular bike. You *can* cruise up a steepish fire road on an eeeb but that’s not an option on a regular bike.

*Can* doesn’t mean you have to though. That’s the freedom an eMTB gives you that a regular bike doesn’t.

Gordon

 

[TCFlowClyde]

The difference on an eMTB is you often *can* take it easier than you could on a regular bike. You *can* cruise up a steepish fire road on an eeeb but that’s not an option on a regular bike.

*Can* doesn’t mean you have to though. That’s the freedom an eMTB gives you that a regular bike doesn’t.

Gordon

Here's to e-FREEDOM!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

i just did a kiok software upgrade from v2 to v4 and the gps on the ebike connect app has all gone map wise but still there on komoot lol.

View attachment 94934

So we're talking about E-mtb on the dirt pathways, i.e., forest/fire roads, double and singletrack in "eco" mode for fitness, hence mountain biking. Sorry if I wasn't more explicit. Is that what you're talking about?

 

[#mitch]

Absolutely you can get a hella workout on any mode. Here is 2 rides on the same terrain first on steam bike and second of FF Kenevo mostly turbo.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Absolutely you can get a hella workout on any mode. Here is 2 rides on the same terrain first on steam bike and second of FF Kenevo mostly turbo.

View attachment 94931


View attachment 94932

Wow! Thanks for the interesting data comparison! Visuals help to show the skeptics of pedal-assist

Regarding sustained turbo mode: I too get accelerated HR in turbo...as it sometimes scares the crap out of me on most terrain except flats! Still fun, just scary

 

[#mitch]

If you wanted more insight

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Join Mitchell and get inspired for your next workout

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Follow Mitchell on Strava to see this activity. Join for free.

Join Mitchell and get inspired for your next workout

www.strava.com

 

[Humdinger]

Absolutely "yes", and if you're lucky enough to be able to change your assistance settings, you can customise your assistance to your fitness level. My Eco mode is currently 35% assistance, 30Nm max ... Trail is 50% assistance, 30Nm max.

When I started riding my Merida eMTB four years ago, I was chronically unfit and needed the 125% assistance, 70Nm. But as I've ridden, trained and my fitness has improved, I've dialled the assistance back so my regular trails still give me a good workout.

 

[Zed]

Oooh careful talking about fitness here some people get quite offended when you talk about ebikes and fitness . Yes, even on an eMTB forum, we have those whose egos are bound up with their years of training.

I love the topic myself - eMTB for health & fitness. Probably because I can't bear the monotony of walking/running/swimming/road cycling.

You can still push the pedals as hard as you want in Turbo. I have had Turbo rides with heart rates hitting the ceiling. So the mode of the bike or it's level of support doesn't even matter - it's how hard you decide to (or automatically) work those pedals.

How hard, how long, how frequently - for any fitness activities these are the variables that will produce a certain result.

If you ride with a low effort for copious hours many times a week you get the equivalent of aerobic base training like a road cyclist would pre-season. This is exceptionally healthy in the real sense of "healthy". The heart literally gets bigger, the mitochrondria in your cells work better, resting heart rate will lower.

Conversely you can kill yourself with extremely high heart rates all the time (but for less time) and not really make much progress. Somewhere in between the two is probably optimal for most of us.

The thing is fitness is specific. If you aren't riding an amish bike, why would you need that particular combination of aerobic & anaerobic fitness?

Personally I think as an older guy that a combination lots of time on an ebike having fun (with low/moderate heart rate) and some basic resistance training is all the fitness we need for longevity, health span and general day to day fitness. And I KNOW it's healthier than grinding very high heart rates for hours per week dragging an Enduro bike up hills. That stuff led to chronic exertion headaches for me - because it's not healthy. Ask a doc, or any fitness expert and they will agree.

Another thing to think about - I have plenty of rides where my heart rate is maxing on the descent, I assume from muscling the bike around, but there is likely an adrenaline factor too I suspect. I came to realise that the limiting factor for speed on trail most of the time is my ability to move the bike quickly. This is why downhillers and enduro riders focus on strength work. So don't think that descending isn't exercise. The more you let go of the brakes, the bigger the workout.

 

[mcboab]

I swapped my lung powered Mtb to E-Mtb as I was just slogging the heart rate in zone 4/5 on the uphills and staying stagnant in fitness over the past couple years, maybe getting slower on some of my Strava segment climbs. After just over week or so emtb I’ve ridden further doing the same 1hr ride times 3 days each week , achieved the same hr intensity mins logged though more in the aerobic zone than zone 4 /5 . My quads hams feel like they are being asked to do more as they are more fatigued than they got on the old air powered bike, so I think I’m improving my overall fitness now I’m e-mtb’ing in a safer healthier way for my aging chassis & having as much fun/riding more trails gnarlier climbs (snapped chains allowing) than previously. All I need to do now is some weight training so I can lift the 50lb bugger over 5 bar gates without my (knackered) rotator cuffs feeling like they are going to pop.

 

[StuB]

"Climbing on an eeb isn't really climbing"

Said to me by a bloke on a FF Kenevo at the top of Feed the Pony after I made it to the top on my KSL blowing out of my arse...

"My heart rate would beg to differ" was my panted response. I then had a little lie down.


This is absolutely true, as long as you accept that you need to actually exert yourself so blasting to work in Turbo and not breaking a sweat isn't exercise.

Yes but the bloke on the FF Kenevo regularly rides a leg powered bike up the same climb so still maintains that going up there even in eco isn't really climbing.
Can I also point out motors and batterys are pointless when you get off and push instead of riding.

 

[Doomanic]

You don't really fit the accepted demographic of UK eBike riders though, do you?

 

[Doomanic]

Can I also point out motors and batterys are pointless when you get off and push instead of riding.

You could have offered to swap...

 

[StuB]

You don't really fit the accepted demographic of UK eBike riders though, do you?

I seem to fit the demographic of the folks round these parts that eeb.

 

[StuB]

You could have offered to swap...

I was going to offer to swap when I was riding the G1 and you were pushing but thought it might not go down very well.

Anyway get back to work you slacker.

 

[Doomanic]

The location is a significant advantage; not only does the variety keep it interesting the closeness is a dream.

Anyway, shouldn't you be out riding your bike?

I was going to offer to swap when I was riding the G1 and you were pushing but thought it might not go down very well.

I wouldn't even be able to see the bars when sat on that, never mind reach them!

 

[StuB]

I'm giving myself the day off today.
Well the morning at least...

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Absolutely "yes", and if you're lucky enough to be able to change your assistance settings, you can customise your assistance to your fitness level. My Eco mode is currently 35% assistance, 30Nm max ... Trail is 50% assistance, 30Nm max.

When I started riding my Merida eMTB four years ago, I was chronically unfit and needed the 125% assistance, 70Nm. But as I've ridden, trained and my fitness has improved, I've dialled the assistance back so my regular trails still give me a good workout.

On the tuning of PAS. I can change assist level. But so far, I'm good with factory support eco...I just do my 1-hr of eco-fitness, then regular trail/turbo for my "hour of full power" for remaining to stay fit, then fun adventure!

Sure, fitness is the short term motivator. However, the fun-n-flowy, breeze-in-the-face is the long term motivator, (esp. on wilderness singletrack )... probably the underlying genius of the E-mtb IMHO.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Oooh careful talking about fitness here some people get quite offended when you talk about ebikes and fitness . Yes, even on an eMTB forum, we have those whose egos are bound up with their years of training.

I love the topic myself - eMTB for health & fitness. Probably because I can't bear the monotony of walking/running/swimming/road cycling.

You can still push the pedals as hard as you want in Turbo. I have had Turbo rides with heart rates hitting the ceiling. So the mode of the bike or it's level of support doesn't even matter - it's how hard you decide to (or automatically) work those pedals.

How hard, how long, how frequently - for any fitness activities these are the variables that will produce a certain result.

If you ride with a low effort for copious hours many times a week you get the equivalent of aerobic base training like a road cyclist would pre-season. This is exceptionally healthy in the real sense of "healthy". The heart literally gets bigger, the mitochrondria in your cells work better, resting heart rate will lower.

Conversely you can kill yourself with extremely high heart rates all the time (but for less time) and not really make much progress. Somewhere in between the two is probably optimal for most of us.

The thing is fitness is specific. If you aren't riding an amish bike, why would you need that particular combination of aerobic & anaerobic fitness?

Personally I think as an older guy that a combination lots of time on an ebike having fun (with low/moderate heart rate) and some basic resistance training is all the fitness we need for longevity, health span and general day to day fitness. And I KNOW it's healthier than grinding very high heart rates for hours per week dragging an Enduro bike up hills. That stuff led to chronic exertion headaches for me - because it's not healthy. Ask a doc, or any fitness expert and they will agree.

Another thing to think about - I have plenty of rides where my heart rate is maxing on the descent, I assume from muscling the bike around, but there is likely an adrenaline factor too I suspect. I came to realise that the limiting factor for speed on trail most of the time is my ability to move the bike quickly. This is why downhillers and enduro riders focus on strength work. So don't think that descending isn't exercise. The more you let go of the brakes, the bigger the workout.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Total agreement esp. on the good o'le mitochondria "powerhouse of muscle cell" as a well-liked professor had referred to it as. Having to "redline it" on the analogue mtb wasn't that much fun, if ever....maybe as a boundless 20 yr old, the adrenaline rush was enough to grind it out daily on the analogue. But I found the E-mtb, after 34 years of analogue, trail XCing, far more exciting to ride and less worrisome regarding my recovery on multiple successive day riding during camping trips (with spare batteries at the ready of course).

After, two years with power assistance, I can mix a little endueo-style trail riding in. Now, I actually have the time and spare lung effort too session a tech section, maybe even the "A" line, And add in any baby pops/drops that increase the fun without too much risk, and that I used to skip in my latter years for fear of consuming excess energy needed to just pedal back to the trailhead. Shoot, I even learned the proper bunny hop/bump hop (finally) to loft over logs reasonably in order to maintain flow...plus it's looks and feels damn cool to pop over rather than sled over them, or just dismount to hunker past them.

Now off to pedal and put some eco cardio time miles in, mixed in with a little higher-assist-powered, Enduro trail fun!