Levo Gen 3 Suspension and Coil shocks for Gen 3 - Fox 38 vs Zeb

[carlbiker]

Its only the very top racers who get any sort of real factory support and custom tunes

Defo agree only the top racers need a tune but end of the day I can sell my old DPX2 and get an EXT Storia v3 which is higher build quality, better performance, bottomless feel, nice aesthetics, 2 springs for £450 vs that of a DHX2 which you have to wonder why Orbea doesn’t offer on their Rises.

Probably similar story to the ERA yet that has adjustable travel which is great as you can pick between XC and trail days. What’s not to love even for an average rider? ?

 

[Hob Nob]

But, but, bu

Id agreed only the top racers need a tune xyz, but end of the day for sake of £450 I can sell my old DPX2 and get an EXT Storia v3 which is higher build quality, better performance, bottomless feel, nice aesthetics vs that of a DHX2 which you have to wonder why Orbea doesn’t offer on their Rises. Probably similar story to the ERA yet that has adjustable travel which is great as you can pick between XC and trail days. What’s not to love even for an average rider? ?

Even in today’s climate, I’d be surprised if you get that much for a DPX2, even a Factory one.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but with your footage and the previous discussions on here, I’d focus on learning to ride properly first, before spunking a grand on a shock which at your level, you will struggle to tell the difference.

Spend the money on a few coaching days - you will gain significantly more from that, than a shiny new shock.

 

[toublanc]

Defo agree only the top racers need a tune

Anybody can feel the need for high performance, tuned suspension. It’s not a sin . Yet only top racers will truly appreciate and make use of those small differences.

 

[E Bob]

Anybody can feel the need for high performance, tuned suspension. It’s not a sin . Yet only top racers will truly appreciate and make use of those small differences.

Agreed, If you want a good shock, or even a bit of bling, Get one… Everyone, regardless of Ability or speed will benefit from better suspension

 

[apac]

Again, ride what comes on your bike for at least a month. Get to know the suspension. IF you still have a yearning for a coil and even more expensive forks, a dpx2 and a grip 2 factory fork will sell easily and you will easily get over a grand for both even if used. It will be a learning experience in itself with the fox components, and those components are excellent parts. Fox factory parts are not to be sniffed at! If anything, watch the first two suspension setup videos posted on this forum in the sticky section in general. Watch them more than once.

 

[carlbiker]

Id never buy a shock for 1k but abit of swapping for a few quid is appealing.

But alas, I have to agree with @apac and others about the value of testing air out first (@Zimmerframe has also ordered me more than once ?), be good experience and I do need to consider weight on what’s essentially a LW bike.

And here-lies the conundrum as I can’t tell you what makes the Rise so much better than my Wild other than being lighter and better suspension; It’s a mystery!

Everything felt better, steering, braking traction, tech stuff yet it had weaker tyres, brakes, discs etc....

Part of me is convinced it’s the suspension and hearing coil offers more traction is almost too appealing at times, it’s like oooo how good can good really get, maybe there’s a level above the air that’s another step up again...

As for weight I think I can just about get away with Schwalbe tyres and have a LW bike still, most buy lighter Maxxis and add inserts anyway by looks, maybe adding coils starts to turn it into something ither than it’s currently wonderful state...

 

[E Bob]

I knew a girl like that once.

Id never buy a shock for 1k but abit of swapping for a few quid is appealing.

But alas, I have to agree with @apac and others about the value of testing air out first (@Zimmerframe has also ordered me more than once ?), be good experience and I do need to consider weight on what’s essentially a LW bike.

And here-lies the conundrum as I can’t tell you what makes the Rise so much better than my Wild other than being lighter and better suspension; It’s a mystery.

Everything felt better, steering, braking traction, tech stuff yet it had weaker tyres, brakes, discs etc....

I think I can just about get away with Schwalbe tyres and have a LW bike still, most buy lighter Maxxis and add inserts anyway by looks, maybe adding coils starts to turn it into something ither than it’s currently wonderful state...

Sorry I thought you was referring to a gen 3…. I wouldn’t fit any ext sus on a sl or anything else designed to be light, I’d stick to air front and rear

 

[carlbiker]

Sorry I thought you was referring to a gen 3…. I wouldn’t fit any ext sus on a sl or anything else designed to be light, I’d stick to air front and rear

Fork
? / 2098 g
ERA / 2280 g

Shock
? / 423 g
Storia v3 / 752 g (205 mm trunnion mount with 500 lbs coil)

Total …511g

Maxxis DHF x 2 / 2000g
Magic Mary 2.6 x 29 & Big Betty 2.4 x 29 / 2700g

Total…700g

So by this logic I should put some DHF on and buy the Coil suspension? ?

 

[E Bob]

Fork
? / 2098 g
ERA / 2280 g

Shock
? / 423 g
Storia v3 / 752 g (205 mm trunnion mount with 500 lbs coil)

Total …511g

Maxxis DHF x 2 / 2000g
Magic Mary 2.6 x 29 & Big Betty 2.4 x 29 / 2700g

Total…700g

So by this logic I should put some DHF on and buy the Coil suspension? ?

And the riders 18 stone…

 

[carlbiker]

Since we have a bunch of racer pro gents in here, does anyone know of a lightweight durable tyre that doesn’t need inserts, like does such a thing exist? DHR2 didn’t last in two mins in the real world!!

 

[ebikerider]

Since we have a bunch of racer pro gents in here, does anyone know of a lightweight durable tyre that doesn’t need inserts, like does such a thing exist? DHR2 didn’t last in two mins in the real world!!

You need to run more air pressure in your tyres. No other way around it. A DHRII is totally fine with an appropriate amount of psi in it.

 

[Yzlvr]

You need to run more air pressure in your tyres. No other way around it. A DHRII is totally fine with an appropriate amount of psi in it.

What pressure do you run?

 

[CjP]

@carlbiker seriously just buy the top model of what ever sticker you prefer. Have it rebuilt immediately and set up to your weight/riding style.
Then tune the shit out of it and enjoy.
I think why EXT are so good is they are built better out of the box. Even my Ohlins felt noticeably better after it’s first rebuild.

 

[ebikerider]

What pressure do you run?

27psi rear with a Michelin DH34 no insert.

 

[apac]

Since we have a bunch of racer pro gents in here, does anyone know of a lightweight durable tyre that doesn’t need inserts, like does such a thing exist? DHR2 didn’t last in two mins in the real world!!

Double-Down casing will add 200g a tyre compared to exo, But it's piece of mind, AND they give a lovely damped feeling which I'm not sure I could do without now I've tried.

 

[E Bob]

Double-Down casing will add 200g a tyre compared to exo, But it's piece of mind, AND they give a lovely damped feeling which I'm not sure I could do without now I've tried.

Iv known a lot of Michelin failures, stick with schwalbe or maxxis, lightweight tyres not designed for EMtb, but don’t think we need e bike specific tyres neither

 

[Hob Nob]

DD Assegai Maxx Grip front, DD DHR2 Maxx Terra rear.

Run the same on both bikes. Never had an issue. Occasionally when going abroad or doing big races I’ll still a DH casing on the back but I don’t want to pedal that around every day otherwise.

 

[ebikerider]

Iv known a lot of Michelin failures, stick with schwalbe or maxxis, lightweight tyres not designed for EMtb, but don’t think we need e bike specific tyres neither

What Michelin failures? I've has zero drama's with the new DH versions and they are wearing really well too.

Maxxis I've found are the biggest culprits for average quality control. I've had quite a few wobbly tyres from distorted sidewalls.

 

[E Bob]

What Michelin failures? I've has zero drama's with the new DH versions and they are wearing really well too.

Maxxis I've found are the biggest culprits for average quality control. I've had quite a few wobbly tyres from distorted sidewalls.

All punctures

 

[ebikerider]

All punctures

Probably better saying that rather than failures. A hell of a lot of punctures are from the rider getting slack with checking pressures.

 

[E Bob]

Probably better saying that rather than failures. A hell of a lot of punctures are from the rider getting slack with checking pressures.

We all anal with pressures, check before every ride. The Michelin’s seem too thin for blokes on e bikes, even lighter riders. Same trails, blokes, pressures, so it’s a fair comparison. They was given a fair crack too but only so many punctures, failures a man can take… back to Mary’s, problem solved. Iv seen a lot of riders outside our possy have problems with them too, very rare you see a Michelin round our trails now. I know a guy who gets real good discount on them through his business, he don’t use them neither. Perhaps they suit easier trails, softer riders.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

We all anal with pressures, check before every ride. The Michelin’s seem too thin for blokes on e bikes, even lighter riders. Same trails, blokes, pressures, so it’s a fair comparison. They was given a fair crack too but only so many punctures, failures a man can take… back to Mary’s, problem solved. Iv seen a lot of riders outside our possy have problems with them too, very rare you see a Michelin round our trails now. I know a guy who gets real good discount on them through his business, he don’t use them neither. Perhaps they suit easier trails, softer riders.

interesting.. I have normal wilds (not e-wilds) in 29 x 2.4 and the trails round here are rocky and sharp, never had a puncture and the sidewalls have clearly taken a beating.. I took them off for winter because the centre tread isnt up to the job here and put 2 DH casing assegai on, I didnt put the wilds back on for summer, the assegais are better.

 

[ebikerider]

We all anal with pressures, check before every ride. The Michelin’s seem too thin for blokes on e bikes, even lighter riders. Same trails, blokes, pressures, so it’s a fair comparison. They was given a fair crack too but only so many punctures, failures a man can take… back to Mary’s, problem solved. Iv seen a lot of riders outside our possy have problems with them too, very rare you see a Michelin round our trails now. I know a guy who gets real good discount on them through his business, he don’t use them neither. Perhaps they suit easier trails, softer riders.

Tell that to Sam Hill.

 

[E Bob]

Tell that to Sam Hill.

Sam Hill… we’ve had a lot of Michelin failures.

 

[carlbiker]

Most do ride standard units.

Too many posts to quote to go over what you have said. You are obviously very happy with your new forks and shock, that's awesome.

The Storia is a single tube damper that needs to have the base tune almost perfect as the range of adjustment is so very small so the chance of it feeling sub-optimal is high. Yes, even a tune that is quite far out will feel better than the OEM DPX2/X2 and will feel even better again if the person with the air pump doesn't know which direction to turn dials as generally a coil will straight up feel better/very different. People generally don't now how to set suspension up IME so when their new suspension does something closer to what they like (something they could have achieved with altered settings on their old set up if they actually knew what was happening and how to turn the appropriate dial) they automatically assume the new stuff is better.

The ERA feels very different to most forks out of the box. Yes the quality control of the ERA is higher which means the fork out of the box will generally feel different and can be better than the Fox/Rockshox/Ohlins/DVO/Manitou. But....spend some time setting up these forks, getting the bushings burnished, removing grease from negative chambers, correct amount of bath oil etc (just like a small manufacturer like EXT did for the ERA before it left Italy) and then you have a closer fight.

The Mezzer has a triple chamber air side just like the ERA but the Mezzer has HBO. That's and advantage imo. The Smashpot which can be fitted to most of these forks too...there's the stout mid range, suppleness to die for plus you gain HBO. The new DVO Onyx feels very similar to the ERA with a stout mid stroke and very supple start to the stroke using OTT so there are plenty of options out there for less $$ than the ERA.

EXT also keep the servicing very close to their chest, preferring that the forks are returned to the seller for servicing. I don't even think anyone has a copy of the servicing requirements publicly do they? I personally prefer a brand to be more open with that sort of thing as I like to service everything myself so it's done correctly...not an option with the ERA. There isn't anything advanced in the fork imo (my question to you that you didn't answer), it's just put together with more care than the mass built forks. It uses tech that has been out for some time too....small positive spring to reduce initial breakaway which helps overcome the positive chambers seal friction allowing a smooth transition and a third air chamber to help with ramp up.

Lots of great options out there (some listed above and yes I have used them). There have been more publicised issues with the bigger brands but the ERA has not been immune to bushing and lubrication problems with several forks returned to Italy with problems in use.

Hopefully their method of getting rid of the steerer creak works and hopefully a fork leg doesn't start creaking first lol

so upto now I’d been thinking ERA storia v3 & smashpot mullet 160/160, 64 head angle but I can swap back to trail bike version using my old shock and make the bike 150 front 140 back again for the poppy park days minus the smashpot coil to the front ofc .

I like the look of ohlins but it’s the same price as the EXT without a tune also, but there’s one 20 mins from me whereas I’m 3hrs away from mojo!

For the money does it go on ext/smashpot or something else, looks like you have plenty of experience there, I’m not sure how much the others cost hence asking what you think?

To my knowledge no one at least in the uk has a 216x6e ext shock (they haven’t done one, only some 210x55), I see a few ohlins though

im buying a 27.5 wheel and then hopefully sorting one next Friday

 

[apac]

so upto now I’d been thinking ERA storia v3 & smashpot mullet 160/160, 64 head angle but I can swap back to trail bike version using my old shock and make the bike 150 front 140 back again for the poppy park days minus the smashpot coil to the front ofc .

I like the look of ohlins but it’s the same price as the EXT without a tune also, but there’s one 20 mins from me whereas I’m 3hrs away from mojo!

For the money does it go on ext/smashpot or something else, looks like you have plenty of experience there, I’m not sure how much the others cost hence asking what you think?

To my knowledge no one at least in the uk has a 216x6e ext shock (they haven’t done one, only some 210x55), I see a few ohlins though

im buying a 27.5 wheel and then hopefully sorting one next Friday

I have a better plan! Stuff £1500 of twenty pound notes in your shorts and then ride down a wicked trail having the time of your life with the standard bike. Get to the bottom of the trail all pumped,, and then find £1500 quid in your pocket to top it off!!!!! ?

 

[Tobers]

I have a better plan! Stuff £1500 of twenty pound notes in your shorts and then ride down a wicked trail having the time of your life with the standard bike. Get to the bottom of the trail all pumped,, and then find £1500 quid in your pocket to top it off!!!!! ?

Maybe he did that earlier when he was going to buy some new wheels, and is now £1500 up and wants to spend it on the bouncy stuff.

 

[carlbiker]

Someone else made a good point in saying to sell the fork fork for upto £1k and buy the era and have done with it. Smashpot voids warranty, eras adjustable travel but I think it’s their first version so tricky to know if it’s worth it, reviews are decent. Smashpot also weighs too much so that’s not a gooer anymore.

There was this however I’ve not seen mentioned Vorsprung Secus Fork Air Spring Upgrade Kit and a mate of my swears by the thing, he’s more upgrade crazy than me by a big stretch also

 

[carlbiker]

I have a better plan! Stuff £1500 of twenty pound notes in your shorts and then ride down a wicked trail having the time of your life with the standard bike. Get to the bottom of the trail all pumped,, and then find £1500 quid in your pocket to top it off!!!!! ?

View attachment 68200

Been there done that already, it might be why I shelled out on the bike ?.

Back to my query, like I say trail days 65.5 air setup, more techy dh stuff 64 coil, most lads I’m out with are 63-64 I’ve tried them also, it’s better dh for sure. I’d also like that bit of small bump compliance...there’s more the rise is capable of.

I’ll enjoy the experimenting and I’ve not yet seen anyone go back to air after coil so if anything I might decide to let air go in the end.

maybe a pretty picture might help?



Blue is 65.5 air
Red is 64 mullet

so basically 1 fork, 2 shocks.

I couldn’t care less what brand they are as long as I can change the fork travel. I know you can get a 160mm air shaft for the Fox 36 but not sure how easy it is to swap around with the 150mm, if that’s practical maybe I keep it, it’s a great fork.

Alternatively I sell that and for a few quid extra buy the Ext Era or the Ohlins which both have adjustable travel and I think do away with the tokens, Ohlins one you can actually pop a coil in there or revert back to air. I suspect the Ohlins is for heavy hitters though without decent small bump compliance

 

[apac]

not yet seen anyone go back to air after coil so if anything I might decide to let air go in the end.

I've gone back to air from coil. If you ask me, the main reason people have coil shocks is because it's a more comfortable ride.