STEPS E8000 Motor Service

[S13]

I guess this ghread would be the spot to post this.

I would say make a separate post about this.
This topic is about servicing the E8000 motor, not about converting your bike to bafang.

 

[S13]

There is also "white lithium grease":

Yeah ill probably try that when i can acquire some of it.
For now the lithium ball bearing grease has fixed the problem. No more noise

It got me thinking however... What if when cleaning the motor, i removed some grease from places that i wasnt supposed to remove grease from? I used some of that grease to regrease the cogs, thinking it served no purpose.
But maybe some of the grease that was smeared all over the bearings and between the bearings and the housing has a function of heat dissipation? Particularly heat dissipation of those 2 stub axles?
That, perhaps combined with the fact that i could have applied more grease to each cog, led to excessive friction, heat build up and eventually grease breakdown.
Next time when i'll regrease with the PG75 i'll make sure to apply a generous amount to the bearing-housing surface as well.

 

[pollywaffle]

According to previous posts:

The white grease is MOLYKOTE PG-75 High quality, German manufactured grease. Specifically designed for plastic and metal gears, as found in many ebike motors.

To seal the motor case: clean it off with solvent and reseal the case with a thin smear of Blue Hylomar.

Has anyone tried Aeroshell 22 instead of this stuff?

 

[Bearing Man]

Has anyone tried Aeroshell 22 instead of this stuff?

Don't get it anywhere near your clutch bearing! Doesn't say anything in the spec about plastic gearing either. Not sure if a synthetic hydrocarbon based grease is as damaging as a real hydrocarbon based grease Looks like great stuff for your wheel bearings though.

 

[Spiff]

Don't get it anywhere near your clutch bearing! Doesn't say anything in the spec about plastic gearing either. Not sure if a synthetic hydrocarbon based grease is as damaging as a real hydrocarbon based grease Looks like great stuff for your wheel bearings though.

I found that for Sprag bearings it is recommended to use Shell Gadus S2 V100 2

Low Pressure Gadus Grease for Sprag and Clutch Bearings 10ml | eBike Motor Repair

This is the solution to avoid cooking your clutch or sprag bearings found mostly in Bosch and Brose motors. We only offer 10ml pots of this grease. Call us ...

ebikemotorrepair.com

 

[Bearing Man]

I found that for Sprag bearings it is recommended to use Shell Gadus S2 V100 2

Low Pressure Gadus Grease for Sprag and Clutch Bearings 10ml | eBike Motor Repair

This is the solution to avoid cooking your clutch or sprag bearings found mostly in Bosch and Brose motors. We only offer 10ml pots of this grease. Call us ...

ebikemotorrepair.com

Yes, Michael sells the whole tube but because this is only available in 400ml tubes and expensive to ship, we supply small pots of this free with our sprag bearings... Shame we still haven't found a sprag bearing for the Shimano yet.

 

[Spiff]

Yes, Michael sells the whole tube but because this is only available in 400ml tubes and expensive to ship, we supply small pots of this free with our sprag bearings... Shame we still haven't found a sprag bearing for the Shimano yet.

Yes , it is a pity that Shimano does not provide any spare part at all and want us to spend big bucks in a new motor.

I know what my next ebike will NOT have: Neither Shimano motor nor Shimano battery

 

[pollywaffle]

Don't get it anywhere near your clutch bearing! Doesn't say anything in the spec about plastic gearing either. Not sure if a synthetic hydrocarbon based grease is as damaging as a real hydrocarbon based grease Looks like great stuff for your wheel bearings though.

Thanks!!!!!!

 

[engate]

Hi

Anyone knows what's the bearing what's under the big metal gear? (Where you need to remove the chainring lockring which requires a special tool to get it out). Hopefully SKF part number so I can get it quick. Unfortunately it fell apart

Pictures:
Click here

Thanks

 

[Spiff]

E8000
1. We can't offer a solution for the electrolysis corrosion of the power and controller plugs.

From Wiki: Electrolytic Corrosion (Electrolysis) occurs when dissimilar metals are in contact in the presence of. an electrolyte, such as water (moisture) containing very small amounts of acid. The dissimilar metals set. up a galvanic action which results in the deterioration of one of them.

Hi @Bearing Man, Would it be advisable to use a "conductive grease" in motor and battery contacts? The electric current through the contacts can be up to 13 Amperes, so this could improve the contact resistance.

 

[Spiff]

Hi

Anyone knows what's the bearing what's under the big metal gear? (Where you need to remove the chainring lockring which requires a special tool to get it out). Hopefully SKF part number so I can get it quick. Unfortunately it fell apart

Pictures:
Click here

Thanks

The large bearings in the axle are and it is recommended to change both:
6808 2RS (6808 is the reference for dimensions and 2RS means 2 sides rubber or plastic seal)
6805 ZZ (ZZ : 2 sides metal seal)

 

[Bearing Man]

From Wiki: Electrolytic Corrosion (Electrolysis) occurs when dissimilar metals are in contact in the presence of. an electrolyte, such as water (moisture) containing very small amounts of acid. The dissimilar metals set. up a galvanic action which results in the deterioration of one of them.

Hi @Bearing Man, Would it be advisable to use a "conductive grease" in motor and battery contacts? The electric current through the contacts can be up to 13 Amperes, so this could improve the contact resistance.

It's mot so much the plug pins, it's the whole area around the plugs suffers from electrolysis but any anti corrosion spray should help.

As for the bearing, you could help to keep @Bearing Man in business by buying the bearings from him! Then he will still be here next year to answer all your technical questions... Just a thought

 

[Spiff]

As for the bearing, you could help to keep @Bearing Man in business by buying the bearings from him! Then he will still be here next year to answer all your technical questions... Just a thought

Thank you @Bearing Man, I have not bought any bearing yet. My motor is still performing fine but I feel curiosity and I keep asking questions

 

[SEBA]

Thank you @Bearing Man, I have not bought any bearing yet. My motor is still performing fine but I feel curiosity and I keep asking questions

like me.

 

[Spiff]

Yeah ill probably try that when i can acquire some of it.
For now the lithium ball bearing grease has fixed the problem. No more noise

It got me thinking however... What if when cleaning the motor, i removed some grease from places that i wasnt supposed to remove grease from? I used some of that grease to regrease the cogs, thinking it served no purpose.
But maybe some of the grease that was smeared all over the bearings and between the bearings and the housing has a function of heat dissipation? Particularly heat dissipation of those 2 stub axles?
That, perhaps combined with the fact that i could have applied more grease to each cog, led to excessive friction, heat build up and eventually grease breakdown.
Next time when i'll regrease with the PG75 i'll make sure to apply a generous amount to the bearing-housing surface as well.

@S13 I do not think that the grease has thermal properties that helps disipate the heat, but may be you did a very thorough cleaning with solvent and removed any minor trace of grease, but for the regreasing I believe there are different types of grease that should be used:

** Sprag bearings (Clutch) maybe able to use grease Shell Gadus S2 V100 2, if using other type of grease these bearings will be sticky and will get blocked. But you won´t need this unless you dissasembly the sprag bearing rollers and springs.

** For plastic to plastic and plastic to metal gears we should use Molykote PG-75 (Datasheet Attached), which according the datasheet is a Lubricating grease for plastic/plastic and plastic/metal combinations with slow to medium-fast movements and light loads.

** But in the E8000 there are other gears that are metal to metal, and also the cage bearings inside the axle are metal to metal, so probably they require a different grease. Does anybody has a clue of what we should use here??

My motor has not failed yet, but I would like to be prepared for the case it fails, and also I am very curious (Which is not bad as long as you are not a cat ).

 

[pollywaffle]

Can I just quickly confirm that the idiotic bolt that holds the spider on the drive side comes off turning right ie. reverse thread. Just to be clearer I'm talking about the one that needs the fc39 (or whatever it is) to get it on/off

Cheers

 

[Bearing Man]

@S13 I do not think that the grease has thermal properties that helps disipate the heat, but may be you did a very thorough cleaning with solvent and removed any minor trace of grease, but for the regreasing I believe there are different types of grease that should be used:

** Sprag bearings (Clutch) should only use grease Shell Gadus S2 V100 2, else they will be sticky and will get blocked. But you won´t need this unless you disaasembly the sprag bearing rollers and springs.

** For plastic to plastic and plastic to metal gears we should use Molykote PG-75 (Datasheet Attached), which according the datasheet is a Lubricating grease for plastic/plastic and plastic/metal combinations with slow to medium-fast movements and light loads.

** But in the E8000 there are other gears that are metal to metal, and also the cage bearings inside the axle are metal to metal, so probably they require a different grease. Does anybody has a clue of what we should use here??

My motor has not failed yet, but I would like to be prepared for the case it fails, and also I am very curious (Which is not bad as long as you are not a cat ).

I would say, 'maybe able to use' instead of should. None of the greases you have stated are specified by Shimano, or similar to what they use. These greases may work in a Yamaha or Panasonic motor for example, but may not work in a Shimano? As we don't support Shimano, we have done no long term testing on this motor with these products. I would tread very carefully. I would also be very careful about mixing greases inside a motor without extensive research to ensure they are compatible.

 

[Spiff]

I would say, 'maybe able to use' instead of should. None of the greases you have stated are specified by Shimano, or similar to what they use. These greases may work in a Yamaha or Panasonic motor for example, but may not work in a Shimano? As we don't support Shimano, we have done no long term testing on this motor with these products. I would tread very carefully. I would also be very careful about mixing greases inside a motor without extensive research to ensure they are compatible.

OK, I changed my post to 'maybe able to use' instead of should.

I agree that we do not know what type of grease is Shimano using and that nobody except Shimano have tested greases in their motors, but Shimano won't tell us. But in the case that a motor has a bearing fail that can be repaired by replacing it, then we need to know what type of grease is the most acceptable for this application :

Homepage - eBike Motor Centre (Performance Line Bearings)

www.performancelinebearings.com

According to the many posts and experiences from early DIY bearing replacement and from experts like @Bearing Man there are already some recommendations for greases, I agree that these have not been fully tested but for now these are the best suited greases for this purpose, and it is probably beter to use them than to not use any grease and have a dry motor that will break very soon for lack of lubrication:

** Sprag bearings (Clutch) maybe able to use grease Shell Gadus S2 V100 2, if using other type of grease these bearings will be sticky and will get blocked. But you won´t need this unless you dissasembly the sprag bearing rollers and springs.

** Gears (plastic and metal). If grease is not dirty and contaminated, we maybe able to reuse the original grease in the motor. If for some reason it is required to add some grease maybe able to use Molykote PG-75. But according Manufacturer Specs it is good for plastic to plastic and plastic to metal gears. But for metal to metal it is not confirmed.

** Ball Bearings used to replace the old damaged ones. They are "sealed Bearings" so we maybe able to use as they are, without adding grease to the inside.

** Cage bearings. If Cage bearings are replaced, they are not sealed and they may require to add some grease. As the contact is cage bearing metal to metal bike axle probably Molykote PG-75 is not feasible for this purpose. In the attched pictures it can be seen that the gear has a white-yellowish grease, but the cage bearing that is inside the cylinder has a dark grease. Can we assume that we can use a standard grease for metal to metal, like Lithium Grease, also, it is contained inside the cilynder to there is low risk to contaminate the white grease in the gear.

I know that the experts have not performed a full test of greases in Shimano motors, but probably they can make some recommendation with the best of their knowledge and the Industry Standard Practices for this application. So don't be shy and tell us, please.

Pictures of the Cage bearings and Axle:

 

[S13]

i will let you know my findings.
Ive regreased my e8000 last week with hopefully the proper stuff.
- Shell Gadus S2 V100 2 for the sprag clutches (though i didnt have any problems before with the original white Shimano plastic gear grease in the clutches). But Shell Gadus is cheap and easy to get. I got like a 400ml tube for 8 euros or something.
- Molykote PG-75 for all the gears (including the metal to metal). This time making sure to use plenty of it and also apply some to the side of the bearings to perhaps allow heat dissipation of the 2 intermediate gear shafts.
- A standard wheel bearing grease (similar to normal lithium grease) for the roller bearing.

Concerning the enclosure: The loctite silicone blue has served me well the last months, so i will continue to use it.

 

[JimmyBoy]

Inside my main shaft with the needle roller bearings, and the picture on Spiffs's post it looks like Moly Grease, anybody any thoughts on that.

 

[S13]

Moly grease isnt preferred for roller bearings.
I suspect it looks a bit dark because over time tiny amounts of metal particles gets in the grease from normal bearing and race wear. I see it happen with the ball bearing grease that i use for the roller bearing as well. It starts as a light yellow beige color and after 1000km+ it is all dark colored.

 

[JimmyBoy]

OK S13, that was my original thought because there was a slight sign of water ingress on the rollers but the whole section is uni-formally coated in the black grease.
Any specific recommendation?

 

[latajacek]

This is my first post here, so hello to everyone.
We'r running ebike rental. Our bikes have e8000 and ep8 motors on board.
Unfortunately in two e8000 engines (after arouond 5000km) and one ep8 engine (after around 3500km) motors have started making realy anoying buzzy noises - it was all the same in these 3 units. After reading all posts here ive disassembled e8000 engines. Ive found that only one bearing on main engine rotor had malfunctioned - its was necessarily to unsolder main PCB from the casing and pull out the rotor from the case. In the end, e8000 engines are running fine after bearing replacement. Now my problem is that ep8 engine. All i can see from shimano official schematisc is that it has a little diffrrent PCB design and montage. If saomebody who has already tried to open these unit could write some usefull information here i would be wery grateful.
PS. Sorry for my english.

 

[Spiff]

EP8 was released one year ago, it should be covered by the 2 year warranty.

 

[latajacek]

Yes i know but shimano warranty doesnt cover products that have been used for commercial purposes.

 

[Spiff]

Yes i know but shimano warranty doesnt cover products that have been used for commercial purposes.

Failing at 3500Km is not the same as to rent it every day and accumulate 30000Km. Have you tried to have Shimano fix it in warranty?

 

[S13]

This is my first post here, so hello to everyone.
...
After reading all posts here ive disassembled e8000 engines. Ive found that only one bearing on main engine rotor had malfunctioned - its was necessarily to unsolder main PCB from the casing and pull out the rotor from the case.

Well, hello there!

So, im not sure what you exactly desoldered inside the E8000, but desoldering is technically not required to remove the crank and replace the bearings. You can leave the big red and black battery wires connected, and seperate the E8000 housing in 2 pieces (still joined by those red and black wires), just carefully disconnect that one flatcable connector.
Then remove the tiny PCB's by unscrewing the plastic fixture and loosening their connectors. The Main PCB can be left where it is.
Then you can take out the 2 intermediate gear shafts (with a bit of wiggling, and sometimes pushing the crank axle away to get a bit more clearance). Next the crank axle can be taken out in on piece and the bearings can be replaced.

Well you managed to fix it anyway, so obviously no need to redo what i just posted. But im just writing it down for future reference if anyone is interested.

I cant help you with the EP8. Dont have one. But its probably very similar in construction i would think?

 

[Spiff]

I cant help you with the EP8. Dont have one. But its probably very similar in construction i would think?

Looks like EP8 is similar to E8000, but there are no pictures of EP8 guts. The only ones are from Shimano:

 

[latajacek]

Thx for your answers. S13 i know it but i had to change bearings on the main rotor in e8000 (see below) and also have to change it in ep8.

I can say that ep8 is easier to disassembly than e8000.

 

[PoppyRex]

Just finish ed repairing my E8000 motor. The bearing on the left hand side of thru crank shaft, 6805ZZ, had failed. There was one shim washer between the case and one 6900ZZ that was in five pieces. This was replaced as well as the three 6900ZZ. I believe they were ok but at $4.00 each just replaced as the motor was apart. The needle rollers were all fine. The motor was reassembled, I used Threebond silicone sealant and reinstalled the motor in the bike. All spurious noise was gone and motor working as normal.

A massive thanks to the contributors of this thread. I got 21,000KM before the bearing failure and looking forward to another 21,000KM.

Thanks to all. ))))