STEPS E8000 Motor Service

[Spiff]

One thing i will add, is that it might be a good idea to get some of that white lithium grease (at least i think its white lithium grease). Shimano does add a lot of grease in there, so you could reuse some of the large unused blobs that are still in there. Thats what i did. But if you want to make sure you have fresh grease, buy some of that stuff too.

According to previous posts:

The white grease is MOLYKOTE PG-75 High quality, German manufactured grease. Specifically designed for plastic and metal gears, as found in many ebike motors.

To seal the motor case: clean it off with solvent and reseal the case with a thin smear of Blue Hylomar.

 

[S13]

According to previous posts:

The white grease is MOLYKOTE PG-75 High quality, German manufactured grease. Specifically designed for plastic and metal gears, as found in many ebike motors.

To seal the motor case: clean it off with solvent and reseal the case with a thin smear of Blue Hylomar.

Thank you! Expensive stuff, sold in high volume only for what i can see.
Well, might have to look in to that in the future.

As for the sealant, i used Loctite Silicone Blue 5926.
Probably similar to the Blue Hylomar.

 

[Spiff]

Bearingman has it at a reasonable cost:

Homepage - eBike Motor Centre (Performance Line Bearings)

www.performancelinebearings.com

 

[S13]

Yeah that seems more reasonable.

But sidenote, Molykote PG-75 has a beige color, so its not the same as the white grease in the Shimano motor. Still wondering what the white stuff is.

 

[johnf0246]

No problem! We are all here to help
The webshop i mentioned is EU only. Im not sure if its feasible to have bearings shipped from the EU to the US? I would assume these parts are pretty standard and available in the US?

Well, if people are struggling with this, i could order a couple of bearing sets here in the Netherlands and then ship them out world wide?
Obviously the receiver would pay for shipping and possible import taxes. Also i would not provide warranty on the components, nor insurance for shipment (up to you to select a suitable shipping method).
If this is something you or someone else is interested in, let me know.

S13 Thanks for your offer to let me buy the complete bearing set through you. I am curious if your supplier sends bearings to other Euro countries such as Madrid, Spain? Where I will be on vacation in Sept.

I am going crazy trying to find one, two or three supplies for the complete set of bearings. If someone knows of a US supplier who has the complete set of bearings please let me know. Thanks

 

[S13]

Yeah they ship to all EU countries, including Spain. Not cheap though, its like 31.75 euros for spain from what i can see on their website.
And make sure they have that 17mm needle bearing in stock before you place your order. They speak english (as most dutch people do) so you can just send them an email and ask.

 

[Bearing Man]

I am going crazy trying to find one, two or three supplies for the complete set of bearings. If someone knows of a US supplier who has the complete set of bearings please let me know. Thanks

We ship to our partner in the US on a weekly basis, so if you would like me to send one of our kits over for you John, this would be no problem. Currently the kit will only include the 8 main motor bearings and not the clutch bearings or seals. If you contact Michael through this link, he will give you a price and I will be happy to arrange a kit to be sent over with his next order.

 

[S13]

What Bearing Man said might be the easiest option if you live in the US.

 

[S13]

ok, just got back from a long test run and im actually very impressed!
Crank rotates sooo smoothly, no vibrations, no creaking, very silent. The engagement point feels very predictable again.

Absolutely love it!
Lets hope it lasts more than 6000km this time
I have shorter crank arms now, so im getting way less pedal strikes. That should help.

 

[MikeAxles]

#1 25x32x4mm Nitrile Rubber Rotary Shaft Oil Seal Springless Design VC Style Simply Bearings Ltd
#2 Pln242048 Polini Oil Seals for Variomatic Yamaha T-max 500 Injection (35x44x4) for sale online | eBay

#1 is definitely correct and compatible, #2 needs a bit of creativity to source, but they're out there. The third tiny one is a bit too weird to be off the shelf.

 

[Spiff]

Hi S13, It is nice to know that you new bearings are working well. After reading this long thread, I understand that the small bearings 6000 and 6900 are inside the motor with no risk of water ingress so the seal is ZZ (metal) with low friction .BUT the large bearings 6808 (40x52x7mm) and 6805 (25x37x7mm) are the ones in the axle where the moisture and dirty can ingress and quickly damage the bearing and it is important to choose the right SEAL for them, and this selection is a compromise between friction and water proofness. I know there are many seal types, but the ones mentioned here are:

• 2RS / DD: 2 sides rubber or plastic seal: HIGH FRICTION GOOD WATERPROOF
• ZZ : 2 sides metal seal: LOW FRICTION BUT POOR WATERPROOF
• 2RZ : 2 side low friction rubber seal, splash proof. LOW FRICTION GOOD WATERPROOF. Looks like a good compromise
• LLU: 2 rubber seals with labyrinth sealing. LOW FRICTION GOOD WATERPROOF. Looks like a good compromise

After removing the original Shimano 6808 and 6805, can you please tell us which seal do they have.

I understand that you installed:

• 6808 DD with 2 sides rubber or plastic seal: HIGH FRICTION GOOD WATERPROOF
• 6805 ZZ with 2 sides metal seal: LOW FRICTION BUT POOR WATERPROOF

Can you please explain why you selected different seals for them.

Looks like the 6808LLU and 6805LLU with rubber seals with labyrinth sealing are a good compromise, by searching google I found the ENDURO bearings, but I do not know if these enduro are the rigght bearing for this application.

 

[Spiff]

#1 25x32x4mm Nitrile Rubber Rotary Shaft Oil Seal Springless Design VC Style Simply Bearings Ltd
#2 Pln242048 Polini Oil Seals for Variomatic Yamaha T-max 500 Injection (35x44x4) for sale online | eBay

#1 is definitely correct and compatible, #2 needs a bit of creativity to source, but they're out there. The third tiny one is a bit too weird to be off the shelf.

Mike, thank you.

 

[S13]

Hi S13, It is nice to know that you new bearings are working well. After reading this long thread, I understand that the small bearings 6000 and 6900 are inside the motor with no risk of water ingress so the seal is ZZ (metal) with low friction .BUT the large bearings 6808 (40x52x7mm) and 6805 (25x37x7mm) are the ones in the axle where the moisture and dirty can ingress and quickly damage the bearing and it is important to choose the right SEAL for them, and this selection is a compromise between friction and water proofness. I know there are many seal types, but the ones mentioned here are:

• 2RS / DD: 2 sides rubber or plastic seal: HIGH FRICTION GOOD WATERPROOF
• ZZ : 2 sides metal seal: LOW FRICTION BUT POOR WATERPROOF
• 2RZ : 2 side low friction rubber seal, splash proof. LOW FRICTION GOOD WATERPROOF. Looks like a good compromise
• LLU: 2 rubber seals with labyrinth sealing. LOW FRICTION GOOD WATERPROOF. Looks like a good compromise

After removing the original Shimano 6808 and 6805, can you please tell us which seal do they have.

I understand that you installed:

• 6808 DD with 2 sides rubber or plastic seal: HIGH FRICTION GOOD WATERPROOF
• 6805 ZZ with 2 sides metal seal: LOW FRICTION BUT POOR WATERPROOF

Can you please explain why you selected different seals for them.

Looks like the 6808LLU and 6805LLU with rubber seals with labyrinth sealing are a good compromise, by searching google I found the ENDURO bearings, but I do not know if these enduro are the rigght bearing for this application.

The original ones in my motor show:
NSK 6805Z and NSK 6808D. However they are sealed on both sides so they are in fact NSK 6805ZZ and 6808DD. They print the number on the seal itself, so perhaps thats why they dont specify the full number on one seal.
So what i installed was exactly as original.

Imo there are 2 major causes of failure for the motor bearings.
1. Water / dirt ingression from the oil seals. There are 3 oil seals, one for each main crank bearing and one for the 17mm needle.
2. High shock forces on the main crank axle, such as result from pedal strikes, jumping, ( being overweight ), etc.

Both these 2 major failure points can cause excessive wear on the main crank bearings 6805ZZ and 6808DD, and also potentially the 17mm needle bearing (though its mostly water / dirt ingression that would cause that to fail)

To be honest, my motor didn't have any noticeable water / dirt ingression. I never use water to clean the bike and usually ride in dry dusty weather. My failure point was definitely nr 2.

The other bearings in the motor should wear out a lot slower like you said, because they are not so much affected by above failure points. So if there is anything critical you would need to replace its at least the 6805ZZ and 6808DD and potentially the 17mm needle bearing.

Also do a good clean of the clutch bearings. You can strip them apart, taking the cage off, and the rollers out. Be careful of the springs, where they came from, how they go back, and use a good quality fine tweezer to reassemble the springs and cages. Work in a clean environment! You can do both clutch bearings this way, you just need to remove a retaining clip from each clutch. Re-grease the clutch bearings with the same white grease that's on the cogs. Im not 100% sure its the right grease, but from what i can tell it looked like it originally came with the white grease on the clutch and so far its working great, no slippage.

Perhaps a labyrinth type could help with failure point nr 1, but it wouldn't help for nr 2. So it's up to you. If you think the compromise is worth it, go for it.

 

[johnf0246]

We ship to our partner in the US on a weekly basis, so if you would like me to send one of our kits over for you John, this would be no problem. Currently the kit will only include the 8 main motor bearings and not the clutch bearings or seals. If you contact Michael through this link, he will give you a price and I will be happy to arrange a kit to be sent over with his next order.

Bearing Man- I did contact Michael and he did say he has or will be getting the bearing kits ready for sale soon. He also says he is going to be able to service the E&000 motors. Thanks for turning me on to him. He seems to be very confident about being able to service the E8000 motor.

 

[Spiff]

Question to experts:

The axle rubber seal in the motor housing that prevents water coming through. What kind of grease does it require, I supose it is some kind of waterproof grease like Motorex Calcium-based yellow fluorescent grease:
* Remarkable and long-lasting lubricating performance:
* Ideal for lubricating bearings, wheel bearings, joints and headsets.
* Neutral in contact with elastomers and seals and prevents galvanic corrosion

BIKE GREASE

Calcium-based yellow fluorescent grease with remarkable and long-lasting lubricating performance. MOTOREX BIKE GREASE is a highly water-repellent and extremely pressure-resistant grease. It offers increased oxidation resistance and very good ageing resistance. Ideal for lubricating bearings...

motorex.com

 

[Bearing Man]

Question to experts:

The axle rubber seal in the motor housing that prevents water coming through. What kind of grease does it require, I supose it is some kind of waterproof grease like Motorex Calcium-based yellow fluorescent grease:
* Remarkable and long-lasting lubricating performance:
* Ideal for lubricating bearings, wheel bearings, joints and headsets.
* Neutral in contact with elastomers and seals and prevents galvanic corrosion

BIKE GREASE

Calcium-based yellow fluorescent grease with remarkable and long-lasting lubricating performance. MOTOREX BIKE GREASE is a highly water-repellent and extremely pressure-resistant grease. It offers increased oxidation resistance and very good ageing resistance. Ideal for lubricating bearings...

motorex.com

This is the grease we tend to use for seals and it works well.

 

[S13]

I think it depends on the material of the seal.
Some are installed dry, others wet.

For PTFE type seals for example:

Both the PTFE sealing lip and the shaft surface must be completely dry. Do not use any grease or oil.

Wet seals in car engines just get a dab of engine oil before installing the shaft.

Im not sure what type of seal is used by Shimano. I think originally they were installed dry, but dont pin me on that.
At least, I did not apply any specific type of grease on my E8000 seals. So will see how that works out.

 

[Spiff]

Thank You Bearing Man and S13.

When pedaling, y motor is doing a noise which is no metal "creaking" noise, it is more like a low volume high pitch rubber rub noise, but it is difficult to explain a noise.

Do you suspect what can cause this? Just in case I am sourcing bearing extractor, two large bearings, axle seals, and squeezing knowledge from you guys.

 

[Bearing Man]

Thank You Bearing Man and S13.

When pedaling, y motor is doing a noise which is no metal "creaking" noise, it is more like a low volume high pitch rubber rub noise, but it is difficult to explain a noise.

Do you suspect what can cause this? Just in case I am sourcing bearing extractor, two large bearings, axle seals, and squeezing knowledge from you guys.

Does it sound like this?

 

[Spiff]

No, that is not the noise, I will try to recird it, but it will not be easy, I`ll tape an old cell close to the motor and try to record the noise.

 

[Bearing Man]

I have loads of different noise videos, just no time to sort and upload, but post vid and hopefully we can pinpoint it. You can run the motor steady with the bike upside down and just drag the back brake to stop the motor getting to fast and cutting out. Can be an easier way of recording it.

 

[themoon]

@S13 @Bearing Man Does anyone already/still sell bearing kits? My motor is just over 4200km (although unlocked, so maybe this counts as extra mileage too) and there is a right crank wobble. I was fine with it before - this has actually started around 2-3 thouthand kms earleier - but now bike has developed a very annoying creaking sound when pedaling, and bike mechanic says most likely it is the motor. It does not make any unusual sounds on its own, without load - just sporadically when riding. Anyway, this wobble I guess it will become worse over time, so maybe worth replacing the bearings now. Does anyone offer now bearings for the clutch as well, or just for the motor?

 

[S13]

I agree, better to replace bearings when slightly worn. You dont want excess play to cause true damage of the motor (seals, cog teeth, bearing supports, sensors etc.)

You can buy the bearings from bearing man, or from the webshop links ive provided earlier. Or just look around, there are many sources for these bearings.
The two clutches cannot be procured for now. But that doesnt matter, they can be cleaned and relubed and should last a long long time. Mine were looking practically brand new at 6000km. The 17mm needle bearing is what allows the clutch on the main axle to spin freely, so you should get that one replaced probably.

 

[Bearing Man]

@S13 @Bearing Man Does anyone already/still sell bearing kits? My motor is just over 4200km (although unlocked, so maybe this counts as extra mileage too) and there is a right crank wobble. I was fine with it before - this has actually started around 2-3 thouthand kms earleier - but now bike has developed a very annoying creaking sound when pedaling, and bike mechanic says most likely it is the motor. It does not make any unusual sounds on its own, without load - just sporadically when riding. Anyway, this wobble I guess it will become worse over time, so maybe worth replacing the bearings now. Does anyone offer now bearings for the clutch as well, or just for the motor?

We now have a bearing kit for the E8000 here: Shimano E8000 Archives - If you're not in the UK, just click on the "worldwide suppliers list" in the top menu or contact me through the "contact us" page.

 

[Spiff]

I found this video that shows the guts of an E8000 motor and explains (in perfect italian) that it had noise and symptoms of a failing bearing, but it was not replaced and finally the bearing broke into pieces that went inside the gears teeth and all gears went south.

I do not speak italian so I may have missed something, but the guy blames water ingress because of pressure washing and also points out that Shimano rejected the warranty because the motor was derestricted.

 

[SEBA]

zz bearing can be replaced by 2rs version of the same bearing ?

 

[Bearing Man]

zz bearing can be replaced by 2rs version of the same bearing ?

Yes. Will create a tiny bit more friction but one bearing would not be noticeable.

 

[S13]

I found this video that shows the guts of an E8000 motor and explains (in perfect italian) that it had noise and symptoms of a failing bearing, but it was not replaced and finally the bearing broke into pieces that went inside the gears teeth and all gears went south.

I do not speak italian so I may have missed something, but the guy blames water ingress because of pressure washing and also points out that Shimano rejected the warranty because the motor was derestricted.

wow what a mess!
The best thing you can do for your ebike is to never wash it

 

[Dirtnvert]

We now have a bearing kit for the E8000 here: Shimano E8000 Archives - If you're not in the UK, just click on the "worldwide suppliers list" in the top menu or contact me through the "contact us" page.

Thats great news! Good chance i missed it if it was mentioned, is it possible to get the tourque sensor replaced when the motor is sent in for bearing service? Not sure if thats even a thing but it seems that the tourque sensor is common failure. Just thinking itd be great to get a motor refurbished with bearings but itd suck to get it back only to have a tourque sensor fail shortly after

 

[Bearing Man]

Thats great news! Good chance i missed it if it was mentioned, is it possible to get the tourque sensor replaced when the motor is sent in for bearing service? Not sure if thats even a thing but it seems that the tourque sensor is common failure. Just thinking itd be great to get a motor refurbished with bearings but itd suck to get it back only to have a tourque sensor fail shortly after

No internal motor parts are available for these motors, so replacing the torque sensor is not really an option. Fortunately they don't often fail. The fault code for torque sensor is mostly a software issue and cannot currently be fixed.