STEPS E8000 Motor Service

[johnf0246]

Updating the list:

1 x 6808 2rs Sealed Ball bearing 40x52x7mm
1 x 6805 2rs Sealed Ball Bearing 25x37x7mm
3 x 6900 ZZ Shielded Ball Bearing 10x22x6mm
1 x 6000 ZZ Shielded Ball Bearing 10x26x8mm
1 x K25x29x10 Needle Roller Cage Assembly
1 x K25x29x17 Needle Roller Cage Assembly

Mike: Thanks for the E8000 bearing list. Do you have a source for acquiring those bearings? I have a
complete motor that has 7,800 miles on it that could possibly be brought back to life with some or all of those new bearings.

As stated above Bearing Man is no longer a source for obtaining all the bearings and seals that may be needed for complete fix.

 

[Bearing Man]

I do have all the bearings here, but can't manufacture the seals or sprag bearings yet. The bearing kits will be added to our site soon. We are still trying to source the exact size Needle roller bearings because although the ones mentioned above may do the job, they are larger than the originals. Sorry, but hate not doing things properly.

 

[MikeAxles]

The larger 17mm wide needle roller bearing is a replacement for what measures as 16.6, but the component that butts up against it in the subassembly is the 25x29x2 wiper seal (manufacturer NOK, pn/ soon). There is a few more mm of available space both behind the threads for the chainring lockring, but also on the crank spindle, well more than the 0.4 required for an apples to apples fit.

The smaller 10mm wide needle roller bearing replaces the 9.75mm unit. This bearing goes inside the torque sensor assembly and again has plenty of room, as it is only contacting the inside of the torque sensor assembly on one side, and the other side is open (the internal splines on the assy i'm assuming are for calibration only?)

Edit:
just taken a look again this morning. The 10mm has around 1mm clearance for a 0.25mm gap, should be fine.
Also, the 6805 2rs listed in the list is actually a shielded ZZ variant, rather than sealed on the motor I have here.

Edit Edit:
NDS shaft seal is 25x32x4mm VC type shaft seal (garterless) (PN NOK AG1284E) - readily available
Chainring Spline Assy' outer shaft seal is 35x44x4mm dual lip shaft seal (garterless) (PN NOK XC2008E) - less common - Yamaha PLN242048 is identical and available
Chainring Spline Assy' inner shaft seal is 25x29x2mm VC type shaft seal (garterless) (PN unknown, manufacturer NOK) - impossible to find

 

[wattermelon1]

I'm sorry if I missed it but was it mentioned in there is a video showing this procedure anywhere?

 

[johnf0246]

I'm sorry if I missed it but was it mentioned in there is a video showing this procedure anywhere?

watter: That would be great to have a video of the DIY E8000 bearing replacement , but I don’t think one has been done yet.

I live in the US and I still don’t know if there is a supply source here to obtain the bearings and seals to do a total replacement. I have an E8000 motor that has 7,800 miles on it and it has a loose output shaft on the drive side. The motor started to bog down and the E010 code appeared.

The bike shop that plugged in their computer, said the problem was worn bearings that caused the torque sensor to malfunction. I would like to be able to repair the motor to have a spare should my current motor die on me.

 

[norrit]

great job @SmokeyBear thank you for sharing
do i have to take out the circuit board to get to the bearings, because after removing the screws it still hangs somewhere somehow

 

[Bearing Man]

great job @SmokeyBear thank you for sharing
do i have to take out the circuit board to get to the bearings, because after removing the screws it still hangs somewhere somehow

If your motor is the E6000 the circuit board is soldered in over the mechanical parts.

 

[norrit]

If your motor is the E6000 the circuit board is soldered in over the mechanical parts.

no it is E8000 ... but i understand now that i don't need to replace the big left board ... thank's a lot

 

[S13]

When looking up the bearings i came across a handy reference for the bearing seal types:

Suffix:
(blank) : No seals
RS / D: 1 side rubber or plastic seal
2RS / DD: 2 sides rubber or plastic seal
Z : 1 side metal seal
ZZ : 2 sides metal seal
2RZ : 2 side low friction rubber seal, splash proof.

Hope this is useful.

 

[S13]

So ive been wondering, if the primary 6805 bearing uses a metal (ZZ) shielding, and that is the one that fails first (according to SmokeyBear), isnt it wise to change that to a full plastic type shielding (2RS / DD)? Just like the other primary 6808 bearing?
Since the full plastic shields are designed to keep dirt and moisture out better than metal shields.
That would prevent moisture and crap entering from the axle and damaging the bearing prematurely.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Bearing Man]

So ive been wondering, if the primary 6805 bearing uses a metal (ZZ) shielding, and that is the one that fails first (according to SmokeyBear), isnt it wise to change that to a full plastic type shielding (2RS / DD)? Just like the other primary 6808 bearing?
Since the full plastic shields are designed to keep dirt and moisture out better than metal shields.
That would prevent moisture and crap entering from the axle and damaging the bearing prematurely.

Thoughts on this?

2RS Stands for 2 Rubber Seals, this doesn't mean they are waterproof. LLU means 2 rubber seals with labyrinth sealing and these are better but still not 100% waterproof. The friction for these is quite high and LLB maybe a better choice.
Most motor manufacturers use a rubber outer seal and a steel inner bearing cover to save on friction. You start to tread a thin line between water resistance and battery consumption.
Most people probably wouldn't mind loosing a few miles off their battery range if it meant their motor was safe, but if you were buying a bike and all the tests you read stated that the Shimano motor did 4 miles less on a full battery when compared with some other manufacturer, you may think twice about buying one and this is something the manufacturers can't risk.
This is why we put a lot of effort into sourcing the right bearings and seals for the right job.

 

[S13]

The larger 17mm wide needle roller bearing is a replacement for what measures as 16.6, but the component that butts up against it in the subassembly is the 25x29x2 wiper seal (manufacturer NOK, pn/ soon). There is a few more mm of available space both behind the threads for the chainring lockring, but also on the crank spindle, well more than the 0.4 required for an apples to apples fit.

The smaller 10mm wide needle roller bearing replaces the 9.75mm unit. This bearing goes inside the torque sensor assembly and again has plenty of room, as it is only contacting the inside of the torque sensor assembly on one side, and the other side is open (the internal splines on the assy i'm assuming are for calibration only?)

A new INA K25x29x17 actually measures as 16.5mm so that should be perfect anyway.

The same goes for the 10mm wide variant, a new INA K25x29x10 measures at 9.6mm here.
So i guess they are supposed to be a little undersized.


Also, i had no problems sourcing any of the bearings from the list above. For now i will go for the 6805ZZ (metal) variant, friction is indeed a lot lower when compared to the plastic/rubber DD type.

 

[Bearing Man]

Looks like there's no longer any reason for us to complete an E8000 kit, or stock these bearings if they can be bought anywhere.
Shame really as we had the guy in today from Tsubaki bearings. Tsubaki manufacture the clutch bearing for this motor but will not currently sell it to anyone besides Shimano. I have been working on him for some time and almost had a solution if we committed to several thousand items per year. Sadly, we are unable to invest this much money just to sell the one bearing that no one can get.
Good news for the Specialized guys though, we have just got an SL motor in to strip and source parts for, and this means we can dedicate our resources to this motor instead.
I am sorry that we could not support the Shimano further.

 

[S13]

The clutch bearing would have been nice, sad you werent able to make a deal.
You can still make a kit for the other standard bearings of course.

Is the clutch something that wears out fast?
Perhaps its not worth the trouble if all people need are the standard bearings (and seals perhaps).

 

[S13]

Btw, was it perhaps something like this?

BB Series | Cam Clutch | One-Way Clutch | Clutch | Power Transmission Products | TSUBAKIMOTO CHAIN GROUP

tsubakimoto.com

 

[johnf0246]

Btw, was it perhaps something like this?

BB Series | Cam Clutch | One-Way Clutch | Clutch | Power Transmission Products | TSUBAKIMOTO CHAIN GROUP

tsubakimoto.com

S13: Thanks for your expertise in trying to find the necessary bearings to do a complete overhaul of the E8000 motor. Shimano has done a good job of not allowing DIY and specialty company repair of their motors.

It’s interesting how other companies like Specialized and Yamaha are more open mined to bearing replacement issues on motors out of warranty.

 

[Bearing Man]

It’s interesting how other companies like Specialized and Yamaha are more open mined to bearing replacement issues on motors out of warranty.

There are no other motor company's that are open minded about any work on their motors (well maybe Bafang). They are all generally the same. This was the whole reason we started Performance Line Bearings

 

[norrit]

take care the flat cables ... one is broken ... i think that means game over for me ... ?

 

[S13]

Ouch how did that happen?
Got the flex cable in between the bearing and the bearing puller?

Easiest would be a replacement part.
Repairing is possible, though only by someone with expert skill in electronic repair. Soldering to these cables, while notoriously difficult, can be done, and you could make a permanent connection between the flex cable and the PCB (omitting the connector).
Maybe if you follow the broken cable further down, there is a better place to solder to, i cant tell?

We used to do this kind of work all the time as electronic engineers. Patching prototypes and sorts. Requires a steady hand, fine soldering tools, preferably a (stereo)microscope and the thin wire-wrap coated wire (cant remember the name of it).
For durability you would probably need to seal the soldering joints with something like epoxy or potting compound.

 

[S13]

All right, finally got around to swapping the bearings.

Motor is out, opened, removed all gears. Removed all the bearings from the shafts, cleaned everything including the 2 sprag clutches.
Ready to reinstall the new bearings.

But wait, where is that 10mm roller bearing located???
I have not seen it and im pretty sure ive got everything disassembled. Well except for the electric motor itself.
Any suggestions?

 

[S13]

Ok, so are there differences in E8000 motors?

Take a look:

So i have 2 plastic gears, and 4 metal gears. Im not sure, but from what i can tell from the first pictures in this thread, there are models with more plastic gears?
Perhaps they changed the 2nd roller bearing as well?

 

[Spiff]

But wait, where is that 10mm roller bearing located???
I have not seen it and im pretty sure ive got everything disassembled. Well except for the electric motor itself.
Any suggestions?

Hi I have not dissassembled my motor, but I am compiling information to have it ready in case I need it.

I have this picture where it looks like it is showing where the needle roller bearings are located.

You did a very nice cleaning, it looks like new!!!

 

[S13]

You did a very nice cleaning, it looks like new!!!

Thanks
Yeah lol that took me like 3 hours to clean

And thanks for posting that picture. Its so weird, with the axle i have over here, it seems that it is just one solid piece with the plastic torque sensor mounted fixed on it. There is no need for a roller bearing in that area (there are only fixed parts) and the torque sensor assembly seems to be molded or glued on to the axle so there is no way to get it off.

Im thinkin they changed the design here?

 

[Spiff]

What year is your bike and motor?

 

[S13]

I bought it May 2020. So i assume its one of the later E8000's.
This one has done about 6000km.

By the way, i do think the needle bearings are in there (from what i can tell looking from inside the clutch bearing). And they are probable there to allow for the tiny rotational movement that the torque sensor requires to do its measurement. So its not a high wearing part, nor does it get a lot of contamination since its tucked underneath.
So i will not be replacing it for now.

 

[johnf0246]

I bought it May 2020. So i assume its one of the later E8000's.
This one has done about 6000km.

By the way, i do think the needle bearings are in there (from what i can tell looking from inside the clutch bearing). And they are probable there to allow for the tiny rotational movement that the torque sensor requires to do its measurement. So its not a high wearing part, nor does it get a lot of contamination since its tucked underneath.
So i will not be replacing it for now.

S13 can you show us what pullers you used to get each bearing off. Also did you purchase the replacement bearing from one or several distributors?

 

[S13]

Ok, new bearings installed, motor back on the bike.
Oeh lala! Buttery smooth cranking!
No more creaks, so im very happy!

S13 can you show us what pullers you used to get each bearing off. Also did you purchase the replacement bearing from one or several distributors?

So i used this one:
aliexpress.com/item/33046983579.html
In the size 40x80mm. I would say 4 of the 6 bearings were easy to remove with this tool. For the other 2 (the big 6808, and one of the 6900) i had to create a little bit of room first before the bearing puller would fit behind the bearing. So i used a small flat screw driver as a wedge. This might damage the old bearing, but who cares right? I found that most bearings were not tight at all, so they came of with relative ease. Dont use the fixing screws of the bearing puller, they are not necessary.

For the big needle bearing i had to use a socket from my socket set (i think it was a size 18mm) and use that as a drift to tap the needle bearing out. The needle bearing is not the problem (its free to move), but its the rubber o-ring that is behind it. If you tap out the needle bearing from the side where the clutch bearing race is, you can tap it out pretty easily. And it will push the o-ring out with it, nice and straight (which is important if you are reusing it).

The smaller needle bearing i didnt replace, so cant help you there. I would say that one probably doesnt need replacement as often as the other bearings (especially the 2 crank bearings and the bigger needle bearing - those are most important).

One thing i will add, is that it might be a good idea to get some of that white lithium grease (at least i think its white lithium grease). Shimano does add a lot of grease in there, so you could reuse some of the large unused blobs that are still in there. Thats what i did. But if you want to make sure you have fresh grease, buy some of that stuff too.

I got all the bearings from one distributor here in the Netherlands.

1x NSK Kogellager 6808 DD (40x52x7mm) - LagerKoning.nl
1x NSK Kogellager 6805 ZZ (25x37x7mm) - LagerKoning.nl
1x NSK Kogellager 6000 ZZ (10x26x8mm) - LagerKoning.nl
3x NSK Kogellager 6900 ZZ (10x22x6mm) - LagerKoning.nl
1x INA Naaldhulslager K25 29 17 (25x29x17mm) - LagerKoning.nl
1x INA Naaldhulslager K25 29 10 (25x29x10mm) - LagerKoning.nl

The 17mm needle was not in stock, but when i asked, they said they could deliver in 3 days. So no problems there.

Hope this helps!

 

[johnf0246]

Ok, new bearings installed, motor back on the bike.
Oeh lala! Buttery smooth cranking!
No more creaks, so im very happy!



So i used this one:
aliexpress.com/item/33046983579.html
In the size 40x80mm. I would say 4 of the 6 bearings were easy to remove with this tool. For the other 2 (the big 6808, and one of the 6900) i had to create a little bit of room first before the bearing puller would fit behind the bearing. So i used a small flat screw driver as a wedge. This might damage the old bearing, but who cares right? I found that most bearings were not tight at all, so they came of with relative ease. Dont use the fixing screws of the bearing puller, they are not necessary.

For the big needle bearing i had to use a socket from my socket set (i think it was a size 18mm) and use that as a drift to tap the needle bearing out. The needle bearing is not the problem (its free to move), but its the rubber o-ring that is behind it. If you tap out the needle bearing from the side where the clutch bearing race is, you can tap it out pretty easily. And it will push the o-ring out with it, nice and straight (which is important if you are reusing it).

The smaller needle bearing i didnt replace, so cant help you there. I would say that one probably doesnt need replacement as often as the other bearings (especially the 2 crank bearings and the bigger needle bearing - those are most important).

One thing i will add, is that it might be a good idea to get some of that white lithium grease (at least i think its white lithium grease). Shimano does add a lot of grease in there, so you could reuse some of the large unused blobs that are still in there. Thats what i did. But if you want to make sure you have fresh grease, buy some of that stuff too.

I got all the bearings from one distributor here in the Netherlands.

1x NSK Kogellager 6808 DD (40x52x7mm) - LagerKoning.nl
1x NSK Kogellager 6805 ZZ (25x37x7mm) - LagerKoning.nl
1x NSK Kogellager 6000 ZZ (10x26x8mm) - LagerKoning.nl
3x NSK Kogellager 6900 ZZ (10x22x6mm) - LagerKoning.nl
1x INA Naaldhulslager K25 29 17 (25x29x17mm) - LagerKoning.nl
1x INA Naaldhulslager K25 29 10 (25x29x10mm) - LagerKoning.nl

The 17mm needle was not in stock, but when i asked, they said they could deliver in 3 days. So no problems there.

Hope this helps!

S13: Thanks for the reply. I ordered the puller from ALI and looked up the 8 bearings from the Netherland Bearing Distributor. Since the website is in Dutch I couldn’t tell if I could purchase the bearings for delivery to the US.

From what I could tell the total cost of the 8 bearings is approx 80 Euros. Do they ship to the US?

 

[S13]

S13: Thanks for the reply. I ordered the puller from ALI and looked up the 8 bearings from the Netherland Bearing Distributor. Since the website is in Dutch I couldn’t tell if I could purchase the bearings for delivery to the US.

From what I could tell the total cost of the 8 bearings is approx 80 Euros. Do they ship to the US?

No problem! We are all here to help
The webshop i mentioned is EU only. Im not sure if its feasible to have bearings shipped from the EU to the US? I would assume these parts are pretty standard and available in the US?

Well, if people are struggling with this, i could order a couple of bearing sets here in the Netherlands and then ship them out world wide?
Obviously the receiver would pay for shipping and possible import taxes. Also i would not provide warranty on the components, nor insurance for shipment (up to you to select a suitable shipping method).
If this is something you or someone else is interested in, let me know.

 

[Spiff]

NDS shaft seal is 25x32x4mm VC type shaft seal (garterless) (PN NOK AG1284E) - readily available

Chainring Spline Assy' outer shaft seal is 35x44x4mm dual lip shaft seal (garterless) (PN NOK XC2008E) - less common - Yamaha PLN242048 is identical and available

Chainring Spline Assy' inner shaft seal is 25x29x2mm VC type shaft seal (garterless) (PN unknown, manufacturer NOK) - impossible to find

Hi MikeAxles,
you said that the NOK seals are readily available, but I can not find them in Google, could you please give more info on where to find them. Thank you.

PN NOK AG1284E - readily available
PN NOK XC2008E - less common - Yamaha PLN242048