Article Specialized Levo SL is a 16.9KG Super Light emtb

[Rob Rides EMTB]

How much does the motor weigh?

SL 1.1 motor weighs 1.95KG

 

[Fivetones]

That 2.6kg 60nm motor and a hot swap battery could smoke the SL in both power and range. Keep the spares in the car or a backpack and just slide them in when you need to change.

What you miss with this simplistic view is that choosing a motor is then followed by integration into the package, battery packaging/management, sensor balance and then last but certainly not least the software control. The last point determines how rideable the final bike will be.

Another consideration here, and why even companies like Santa Cruz choose go with the tried and tested e8000, is the support and services which go hand in hand with scale. Shimano and Bosch have that scale, as do Specilalized (but Brose or Mahle on their own do not).

Mind you, you seem so convinced this is all a doddle so who am I to challenge your view? You should set up a bike company, with your superior knowledge you could be competing with Specialized by this time next year.

 

[Zimmerframe]

okay, how much wight the sl without battery and extender. huw much da battery wight?

Motor 1.95kg
Extender 1050g
Thought the internal battery was 2kg .. but I can't find that to confirm it .. Rob ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

What you miss with this simplistic view is that choosing a motor is then followed by integration into the package, battery packaging/management, sensor balance and then last but certainly not least the software control. The last point determines how rideable the final bike will be.

Another consideration here, and why even companies like Santa Cruz choose go with the tried and tested e8000, is the support and services which go hand in hand with scale. Shimano and Bosch have that scale, as do Specilalized (but Brose or Mahle on their own do not).

Mind you, you seem so convinced this is all a doddle so who am I to challenge your view? You should set up a bike company, with your superior knowledge you could be competing with Specialized by this time next year.

@Fivetones with your situation you're obviously looking primarily at lighter, but possibly have some range/power concerns. Have you considered the BH CARBON ATOM LYNX 6 ? 19.4kg 720wh battery Brose Full Fat motor ?

 

[Fivetones]

@Fivetones with your situation you're obviously looking primarily at lighter, but possibly have some range/power concerns. Have you considered the BH CARBON ATOM LYNX 6 ? 19.4kg 720wh battery Brose Full Fat motor ?

Ah, the Multipla of the ebike world! ?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Motor 1.95kg
Extender 1050g
Thought the internal battery was 2kg .. but I can't find that to confirm it .. Rob ?

Battery is 1.8KG

 

[Fx1]

That 2.6kg 60nm motor and a hot swap battery could smoke the SL in both power and range. Keep the spares in the car or a backpack and just slide them in when you need to change.

What you miss with this simplistic view is that choosing a motor is then followed by integration into the package, battery packaging/management, sensor balance and then last but certainly not least the software control. The last point determines how rideable the final bike will be.

Another consideration here, and why even companies like Santa Cruz choose go with the tried and tested e8000, is the support and services which go hand in hand with scale. Shimano and Bosch have that scale, as do Specilalized (but Brose or Mahle on their own do not).

Mind you, you seem so convinced this is all a doddle so who am I to challenge your view? You should set up a bike company, with your superior knowledge you could be competing with Specialized by this time next year.

And what you seem to forget is that in the next couple of years companies will do exactly what I just said. It's likely already in development.

Also I never touched on support or software that is a different subject. You are talking about total package. Which all things considered is a fair point. But not the point I was making.

Given there is no fair testing or criticism in this industry we really dont know which is the best motor or battery. I'm still wondering how the YT 540wh managed to outlast the 700wh levo in robs video. That would be setting alarm bells off for me right there. Some unbiased testing might show up some red flags when it comes to that brose motor that nobody is considering. Especially considering the premium that battery and motor combination is asking for.

How about putting together a test bench for ebikes to simulate riding and then see which motor actually performs as claimed.

My early money says the American brands claims are wide of the mark. Then the germans and then the Japanese in that order.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Ah, the Multipla of the ebike world! ?

It's not what you see when you look down between your legs .. it's what you do with it that matters !

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

And what you seem to forget is that in the next couple of years companies will do exactly what I just said. It's likely already in development.

Also I never touched on support or software that is a different subject. You are talking about total package. Which all things considered is a fair point. But not the point I was making.

Given there is no fair testing or criticism in this industry we really dont know which is the best motor or battery. I'm still wondering how the YT 540wh managed to outlast the 700wh levo in robs video. That would be setting alarm bells off for me right there. Some unbiased testing might show up some red flags when it comes to that brose motor that nobody is considering. Especially considering the premium that battery and motor combination is asking for.

How about putting together a test bench for ebikes to simulate riding and then see which motor actually performs as claimed.

My early money says the American brands claims are wide of the mark. Then the germans and then the Japanese in that order.

A test bench / independent verification is a good idea.

All motors are not made to the same efficiency levels. So a SL1.1 Motor is claimed to be 80% efficient at a cadence of 90rpm. I don’t know what the Brose is.

Different brands will have different efficiencies.

Fazua has 60Nm of torque but at what cadence? If it’s a cadence of 20, then at a cadence on 90 it provides 5nm torque then it’s pretty weak.

Definitely more needs to be done so we can compare systems on a like for like basis.

 

[R120]

I actually think the software is the single most important thing, more important than the motor itself. Its the software that governs how the motor feels, and how the user interacts with it.

It doesn't really matter if one motor is a bit more powerful on paper, if the software makes it unintuitive to use. One of the reason I have stuck with the Shimano e8000 is that its trail mode is for me the most intuitive riding experience of all the motors I have tried, simply in that it feels just like riding a normal bike to me, just amplified - you put more in, you get more out, and it responds like a normal bike would on technical climbs where you peddling inputs are inconsistent, i.e if you are doing half a pedal stroke to get up over a feature at slow speed, the motor behaves as you would expect a non motorised bike to when you put more or less effort/pressure through the crank. Irt also means the bike never behaves in a way you dont expect it to.The Bosch EMTB mode is very similar, but I am so used to the shaman now that even that feels less intuitive to me.

I think this is the Fazua's downfall, in that the software management to work for MTB is a lot more tricky to nail down than on a road bike, simply because you are having to factor in so many different types of pedal input, not just consistent cadences.

If you ride a Specilized, and then another Brose bike running the standard broke software, the standard power modes feel quite different, and (caveating I haven't ridden an SL yet) I would suspect its the software that governs the motor behaviour that is as much a factor in how they get so much out of the motor as the motor itself.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I actually think the software is the single most important thing, more important than the motor itself. Its the software that governs how the motor feels, and how the user interacts with it.

It doesn't really matter if one motor is a bit more powerful on paper, if the software makes it unintuitive to use. One of the reason I have stuck with the Shimano e8000 is that its trail mode is for me the most intuitive riding experience of all the motors I have tried, simply in that it feels just like riding a normal bike to me, just amplified - you put more in, you get more out, and it responds like a normal bike would on technical climbs where you peddling inputs are inconsistent, i.e if you are doing half a pedal stroke to get up over a feature at slow speed, the motor behaves as you would expect a non motorised bike to when you put more or less effort/pressure through the crank. Irt also means the bike never behaves in a way you dont expect it to.The Bosch EMTB mode is very similar, but I am so used to the shaman now that even that feels less intuitive to me.

I think this is the Fazua's downfall, in that the software management to work for MTB is a lot more tricky to nail down than on a road bike, simply because you are having to factor in so many different types of pedal input, not just consistent cadences.

If you ride a Specilized, and then another Brose bike running the standard broke software, the standard power modes feel quite different, and (caveating I haven't ridden an SL yet) I would suspect its the software that governs the motor behaviour that is as much a factor in how they get so much out of the motor as the motor itself.

Good points. I think its a mix of both the software and hardware. The hardware needs to be up to the task that the software is asking of it.

 

[R120]

Good points. I think its a mix of both the software and hardware. The hardware needs to be up to the task that the software is asking of it.

Totally agree, I just think that all things being equal between a pair of motors, the software is going to be the element most impacting the rider experience.

 

[Fivetones]

And what you seem to forget is that in the next couple of years companies will do exactly what I just said. It's likely already in development.

How about putting together a test bench for ebikes to simulate riding and then see which motor actually performs as claimed.

There’s a lot at stake here, ebikes are a very competitive, exponentially growing, multibillion dollar industry and any company of any size that cares about competing will have done, or be doing, these tests. There’s been a few generations of motors now to refine this based on millions of motor miles.

Would you like to explain to the CEO why your product development department bet the company‘s future on the wrong motor? Or tied the future fortunes to something that fails so often, in the case of Specialized/Brose?

I’d wager there’s no independent body that has funding enough to do lab tests to the extent you describe but if you want some reading to do while you wait for your first ebike to arrive then have a look here: The best eMTB motor you can buy | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[etoni]

best cadence between 65-85

 

[Fx1]

I actually think the software is the single most important thing, more important than the motor itself. Its the software that governs how the motor feels, and how the user interacts with it.

It doesn't really matter if one motor is a bit more powerful on paper, if the software makes it unintuitive to use. One of the reason I have stuck with the Shimano e8000 is that its trail mode is for me the most intuitive riding experience of all the motors I have tried, simply in that it feels just like riding a normal bike to me, just amplified - you put more in, you get more out, and it responds like a normal bike would on technical climbs where you peddling inputs are inconsistent, i.e if you are doing half a pedal stroke to get up over a feature at slow speed, the motor behaves as you would expect a non motorised bike to when you put more or less effort/pressure through the crank. Irt also means the bike never behaves in a way you dont expect it to.The Bosch EMTB mode is very similar, but I am so used to the shaman now that even that feels less intuitive to me.

I think this is the Fazua's downfall, in that the software management to work for MTB is a lot more tricky to nail down than on a road bike, simply because you are having to factor in so many different types of pedal input, not just consistent cadences.

If you ride a Specilized, and then another Brose bike running the standard broke software, the standard power modes feel quite different, and (caveating I haven't ridden an SL yet) I would suspect its the software that governs the motor behaviour that is as much a factor in how they get so much out of the motor as the motor itself.

Good points. I think its a mix of both the software and hardware. The hardware needs to be up to the task that the software is asking of it.

This wouldn't be that hard to do.

I'm sure I saw some product on youtube advert with a canyon bike on it designed for indoor cycling.

You could use that to create resistance in the same way a spinning bike works. Connect the crank to a motor with a speed controller.

Then you would test the each motor in different scenarios which would be repeatable between motors until each battery ran flat.

This would give you a baseline performance metric with 3 data points per motor and battery combination.

Put it this way.. it would be a world first and the youtube hits alone would be epic.

You have access to the bikes and 30k youtube followers. The amount of content that would produce would be epic.

I wonder how long it would take until manufacturers started to cheat like the vw scandal

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I did some data mining using BLEvo and a calulation to work out NM from a motors given Amps / Watts.

I cannot validate this data but here's a quick graph I made from the ride data:

I didnt pedal to high enough cadences in my last ride as i didnt anticipate making this graph. But you can see the NM quicly drops off after cadence 65. But Watts remain high throughout cadence. I'll work on it a bit more to look at wider cadences.

I only used data from 100% Turbo mode with fresh battery.

To add: this is all based of data I captured using BLEvo that gets the data from the SL motor. It is interesting none the less...

I will do the same to BROSE. All we need is BLEvo to work with Shimano / Bosch / Fazua and Yamaha... @PaoloBLEvo !!!

#dataiscool

 

[Mabman]

I got a chance to ride one the other day while I waited for my mechanic buddy to mod my left brifter into a dropper activator. Steep up hill right out the door and in Turbo was about equivalent to my bike at the same power level, but I have two levels to go and I think I would miss them.

Light enough for sure but I have come to adapt to the weight of a bike in the 40lb range and don't see the need to switch, especially for the $12.5 sticker price of the one I rode.

 

[Fojsum]

The SL 1.1 motor has been used in the Creo which has been out in the field for several months now. What do we know of it's reliability at this point? Any known issues or users reporting high failure rates?

Follow up on my own question but here is a quote from mtbr first ride review...First Ride: Specialized Levo SL - Mtbr.com

"Of course, we don’t have extensive experience yet with the durability and reliability of this motor but we predict it will be more trouble-free than its predecessors. Our reasoning is three-fold. First, there is no more belt-drive inside this motor which was the culprit of the majority of Levo 2.1 motor problems. Second, this motor has been in the public’s hands for about a year now in the Creo road and gravel bikes and we really haven’t heard of many issues about reliability problems with it. The motor really does not seem stressed, putting out 240 watts as opposed to the 565 watts of the Levo motor. And finally, Specialized has implemented much more intensive testing and QC protocol for this development, logging hundreds of thousands of actual trail time hours on this motor before its release"

 

[Nando Lope]

LEVO SL SLOWS TURBO LEVO’S DEVELOPMENT

Hi There! I’ve been reading your opinions from the beginning and now I will try to explain mine with my “Decathlon English”

I don’t understand very well Specialized’s strategy when launching the new Levo SL. This bike was supposed to be the future of our Turbo Levos in two generations, doesn’t it? Turbo Levos are little by little improving the motor, the battery and the weight so if we look at Turbo Levo 2023, we will see basically a Levo SL with more powerful motor and more battery. Anyway, both models will be the same in two or three years. Or maybe Turbo Levo goes 19kg and LevoSL goes 16kg.

I don’t know if you are getting my idea. Why launching LevoSL instead of launching a new Turbo Levo 2021 with improved specifications? In my opinion, Specialized will now stop Turbo Levo’s developement in order to sell more Levo SL.

I’d put a spy camera in Switzerland’s Spe. headquarters to see what are they working on these days.... I am a Turbo Levo’21 possibly owner, HYPE is the word until next September.

I hope you understand my idea. Anyway, I always think the same when I look to the e-bikes horizon: “Don’t mess with the future, they will be better. Go and ride your ebike now!” If I had to buy a ebike now I would buy LevoSL. Let’s see at the end of the summer....

Cheers!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Not sure if this one has done the rounds already or not ?

 

[JSQ]

^^ I think the introduction of the Levo SL mean that they can make the Levo burlier. Levo SL is just a new segment and for a different type of rider than the Levo. So they will differentiate the bikes more by making the Levo burlier for the "traditional" ebike riders. They will then probably make an ultralight Levo SL hardtail just to get more and more people riding ebikes and to create more sales and ultimately just rule the ebike market.

 

[SquireRides]

I heard the Levo HT didnt sell well. There was a lot of end-of-season discounts and then the 2019 models came out with a much lower spec of components, presumably to try to shift them.

I like a hard tail (see avatar pic!) but they tend to look poor value next to entry-level full sussers.

Technically, I agree though! I'd love to see a progressive and agile HT with the SL system!

 

[Fx1]

Coming from a soon to be ex specialized customer.

I'd like them to actually install decent components on their bikes their own brand stuff must be saving a fortune so there is no reason to install entry level brakes on a 7 grand bike. I'm still wondering how I managed to get guide rsc on my s works with no bite adjustment. They somehow put the carbon levers on the rs bodies and called them rsc.

 

[miPbiP]

LEVO SL SLOWS TURBO LEVO’S DEVELOPMENT

Hi There! I’ve been reading your opinions from the beginning and now I will try to explain mine with my “Decathlon English”

I don’t understand very well Specialized’s strategy when launching the new Levo SL. This bike was supposed to be the future of our Turbo Levos in two generations, doesn’t it? Turbo Levos are little by little improving the motor, the battery and the weight so if we look at Turbo Levo 2023, we will see basically a Levo SL with more powerful motor and more battery. Anyway, both models will be the same in two or three years. Or maybe Turbo Levo goes 19kg and LevoSL goes 16kg.

I don’t know if you are getting my idea. Why launching LevoSL instead of launching a new Turbo Levo 2021 with improved specifications? In my opinion, Specialized will now stop Turbo Levo’s developement in order to sell more Levo SL.

I’d put a spy camera in Switzerland’s Spe. headquarters to see what are they working on these days.... I am a Turbo Levo’21 possibly owner, HYPE is the word until next September.

I hope you understand my idea. Anyway, I always think the same when I look to the e-bikes horizon: “Don’t mess with the future, they will be better. Go and ride your ebike now!” If I had to buy a ebike now I would buy LevoSL. Let’s see at the end of the summer....

Cheers!

it's a commercial strategy. all business are basically, in one form or other, banks. they have £xxx and they want to turn it into £xxx*y%

they think ebikes are going become the norm, they want to own the space.

SL allows them to:
* create a new niche and establish leadership. divide and conquer. see Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind: How to Be Seen and Heard in the Overcrowded Marketplace by Al Ries
* have a purchase path for people who are regular bikers but don't see themselves as e-bikers
* have more Spesh product on dealer floors to squeeze out competitor product

 

[miPbiP]

I heard the Levo HT didnt sell well. There was a lot of end-of-season discounts and then the 2019 models came out with a much lower spec of components, presumably to try to shift them.

I like a hard tail (see avatar pic!) but they tend to look poor value next to entry-level full sussers.

Technically, I agree though! I'd love to see a progressive and agile HT with the SL system!

is a emtb hardtail simply not gonna spin out the rear wheel when some power is applied?

 

[R120]

Nope, I have an EMTB hard till and it’s a of fun, I actually find it climbs better than my FS.
however without the rear suspension the extra weight is far more noticeable on a hard tail, and that is the main problem.

Kinesis have just launched a new hard tail with the Fazua system that looks interesting

 

[Doomanic]

I’ve got a test ride booked for Saturday...

The demo ride has been cancelled because of the weather, it would appear the bike really is a lightweight.

 

[Peter Hill]

LEVO SL SLOWS TURBO LEVO’S DEVELOPMENT

Hi There! I’ve been reading your opinions from the beginning and now I will try to explain mine with my “Decathlon English”

I don’t understand very well Specialized’s strategy when launching the new Levo SL. This bike was supposed to be the future of our Turbo Levos in two generations, doesn’t it? Turbo Levos are little by little improving the motor, the battery and the weight so if we look at Turbo Levo 2023, we will see basically a Levo SL with more powerful motor and more battery. Anyway, both models will be the same in two or three years. Or maybe Turbo Levo goes 19kg and LevoSL goes 16kg.

I don’t know if you are getting my idea. Why launching LevoSL instead of launching a new Turbo Levo 2021 with improved specifications? In my opinion, Specialized will now stop Turbo Levo’s developement in order to sell more Levo SL.

I’d put a spy camera in Switzerland’s Spe. headquarters to see what are they working on these days.... I am a Turbo Levo’21 possibly owner, HYPE is the word until next September.

I hope you understand my idea. Anyway, I always think the same when I look to the e-bikes horizon: “Don’t mess with the future, they will be better. Go and ride your ebike now!” If I had to buy a ebike now I would buy LevoSL. Let’s see at the end of the summer....

Cheers!

Yes I really cant see them spending more time on the current Levo unless they put a newer motor in it or Brose develop the Mag-s a bit more. Why would you hang on to a motor that has been the issue in so many of the warranty claims. Even though I like the more powerful Levo, if I was to buy a new bike I would probably get an SL as it's more current. I would have to try it out first of course. All the 'full fat' Levo needs is a more reliable motor, a scaled up SL maybe with better connections. I'm on my third 2.1 now in just over a year!

 

[Fx1]

LEVO SL SLOWS TURBO LEVO’S DEVELOPMENT

Hi There! I’ve been reading your opinions from the beginning and now I will try to explain mine with my “Decathlon English”

I don’t understand very well Specialized’s strategy when launching the new Levo SL. This bike was supposed to be the future of our Turbo Levos in two generations, doesn’t it? Turbo Levos are little by little improving the motor, the battery and the weight so if we look at Turbo Levo 2023, we will see basically a Levo SL with more powerful motor and more battery. Anyway, both models will be the same in two or three years. Or maybe Turbo Levo goes 19kg and LevoSL goes 16kg.

I don’t know if you are getting my idea. Why launching LevoSL instead of launching a new Turbo Levo 2021 with improved specifications? In my opinion, Specialized will now stop Turbo Levo’s developement in order to sell more Levo SL.

I’d put a spy camera in Switzerland’s Spe. headquarters to see what are they working on these days.... I am a Turbo Levo’21 possibly owner, HYPE is the word until next September.

I hope you understand my idea. Anyway, I always think the same when I look to the e-bikes horizon: “Don’t mess with the future, they will be better. Go and ride your ebike now!” If I had to buy a ebike now I would buy LevoSL. Let’s see at the end of the summer....

Cheers!

Yes I really cant see them spending more time on the current Levo unless they put a newer motor in it or Brose develop the Mag-s a bit more. Why would you hang on to a motor that has been the issue in so many of the warranty claims. Even though I like the more powerful Levo, if I was to buy a new bike I would probably get an SL as it's more current. I would have to try it out first of course. All the 'full fat' Levo needs is a more reliable motor, a scaled up SL maybe with better connections. I'm on my third 2.1 now in just over a year!

3 motors in a year really isn't good. I'd be concerned once warranty is gone.

 

[Bencab]

Here are my stats after my demo ride last Sunday on a Levo SL expert with range extender.
Place: Henry Coe State Park - Gilroy, California
Weather: Wind storm; about 50mph to 60mph on the ridge; I had to stop a couple of times as I get deflected by the wind gust; lots of tress and branches fell.
Ride time: 3 hours 26 minutes
Distance: 24.5 miles
Ascent: 5,969 ft
Descent: 5,982 ft
Fastest Speed: 30.6 mph
Total Consumption: 429wh
Average Support Level: 115.81%
Battery remaining after the ride: 17%
Fun factor: ear to ear grin!
My wallet after the ride: Lighter as I bought a comp carbon model - cast berry color.
My wife's reaction: "you better sell your other bikes!"