Smashpot fork coil conversion on 2019 Decoy Base

[KenX]

Since I fitted a Bomber coil to the rear, I've really noticed the lack of smoothness/compliance at the front compared to the plush feel from the rear.....
Tried lower leg service along with a 170mm airshaft, better, but still not what I was looking for...
Bit the bullet and ordered a Vorsprung Smashpot conversion from TFT, had a chat with them and settled on a 40lb spring for my kind of riding and trails (and the extra weight of the Decoy). I'm 73kg with gear, riding style: fast trail....
I configured the Smashpot for 180mm travel, the Decoy is an electric DH bike after all!
Fitting was simple, the only tool I didn't have was a 22mm cone wrench, I modified a 17mm to do the job, the whole task was less than an hour while the fork is apart to do a lower service!
Straight away the fork feels smoother and less jerky, the stiction from the air spring accounted for that, the fork now sits static at 5mm into the travel, as opposed to 20mm with the air spring and much easier to find the sag point as the fork isn't sticking and jerking.
Sag with the 40lb spring was 30%, perfect!
I left the compression and rebound settings the same so I had a baseline before riding, also the bottom-out damper on the Smashpot was fully open.
First outing today and what a difference!
Even riding up my favourite trail I could feel the difference, much smoother and I could see the fork working over every bump, also I could hear the rebound working all the time, where before it was only on the bigger stones.
On the down, first thing I could feel was SMOOTH, (which was what I was hoping for), then, as I got more into it, better traction from the front end on loose surfaces due to the wheel staying in contact with the ground more.
No topping out or spring noises, no extra diving and IMO, no noticeable change in the way the bike handles, even with the much plusher ride, I've still got 20-30mm travel in reserve and couldn't feel when the bottom-out damper came into play......
The head angle is now 64.5 degrees with the flip-chip in high, giving me a nice BB rise for extra pedal clearance! (the 2020 Pro Race is 64.5 degrees in the low position with a 170mm fork as opposed to the 160mm Yari on the 2019 Base) and I felt no down side to the slacker head angle.
Any negatives?
Well, the whole setup is around 400g heavier than the air spring equivalent, but not such a big deal on a 25kg bike...
And it's £295, but again, on a £4500 bike, not so massive, and for the difference it makes should be on everyone's to-do list
That's about it, but feel free to chime in!

 

[Doomanic]

Are you still using the Motion Control damper?

 

[YokoOno]

Are you still using the Motion Control damper?

Upgrading the spring to coil is a strong move.

Getting rid of the MOCO crap damper should be next. it's a turd.

My Yari has a 170mm Push ACS-3 spring kit and upgraded Push HC-97 damper. It's fantastic.

 

[Doomanic]

The Push HC-97 requires a Charger damper doesn't it?

 

[YokoOno]

The Push HC-97 requires a Charger damper doesn't it?

Yes it does. I had to purchase one of those, then upgrade it to HC97

 

[rb.]

I’m looking to do this coil conversion on the lyrik that came stock on my Enduro.

For my decoy I have a 2021 Fox fork on order. Will interesting to see what I prefer more. I wish I got the mullet decoy so I could swap 170mm forks back and forth. Don’t really want to run 170 on the 29 model though.

 

[rb.]

Yes it does. I had to purchase one of those, then upgrade it to HC97

Did you do both Coil/damper at the same time? I’m wondering if the HC97 + the RC charger 2 would be a worth while investment while still keeping the air spring in the other side.

 

[YokoOno]

Did you do both Coil/damper at the same time? I’m wondering if the HC97 + the RC charger 2 would be a worth while investment while still keeping the air spring in the other side.

Yes, I did both simultaneously.
On other bikes, I've had extensive time riding ACS3, HC97 as well as stock charger and MOCO setups. So I know what I wanted. I also live 5 minutes from Push and have the luxury of quick expert installation and setup

But if I had to choose between spring OR damper, definitely spring first. Changing that out gives the most bang for the buck which anyone could appreciate. Then changing the damper is icing on the cake for the ultimate setup. The guys at Push advise the same, when asked.

 

[Zero]

For me this is the problem with rock shox.

I have this issue on my 180mm enduro lyric rct3. The fox grip2 doesnt have it at all.

The lyric has always lacked small bump compliance. This is why it's a cheaper and more basic fork. Always has been always will be.

I often think people who think rockshox is better dont know really what they are talking about and often is more because they cant set up the fork correctly. One thing I do know is that you cannot setup a lyric as good as a fox grip2.

Seems to me that the coil fixes the main problem with the lyric. But I dont see many fox grip2 owners moving to coil. There must be some logic in that somewhere.

 

[YokoOno]

For me this is the problem with rock shox.

I have this issue on my 180mm enduro lyric rct3. The fox grip2 doesnt have it at all.

The lyric has always lacked small bump compliance. This is why it's a cheaper and more basic fork. Always has been always will be.

I often think people who think rockshox is better dont know really what they are talking about and often is more because they cant set up the fork correctly. One thing I do know is that you cannot setup a lyric as good as a fox grip2.

Seems to me that the coil fixes the main problem with the lyric. But I dont see many fox grip2 owners moving to coil. There must be some logic in that somewhere.

I have a Fox 36 on a Nomad. I have two bikes with Rock Shox. An Evil with a 150mm Pike and now my YT with the Yari (but it's not really a yari anymore because of the internals).

In stock configuration, it was a tossup between the Fox and the Pike (charger damper)- both were "ok" but still lacking. The Fox was stiffer due to bigger stanchions, but I can't recall really having much preference for one over the other

I never rode the Yari in "stock" - because I knew the MOCO is a turd from past experience. MOCO is a legacy product now used to achieve a price-point. It should just go away, but does help to keep costs down.

Currently, my Fox has ACS3 and Push factory tuning. The Evil & Yari have ACS3 and HC97.

Hands down, the HC97 outperforms the Fox, even with the Push "factory tune" on the 36.

In either case, switching to coil was an immediate and significant upgrade. Frankly, I see no advantage to an air spring over the ACS3, aside from weight - but even then the weight is a small difference for trail riding and irrelevant on an e-bike.

Aside from the performance gains, the coil requires far less maintenance, doesn't have to be constantly checked for pressure variances, and isn't affected by temperature change. Each ride provides a consistent feel.

 

[leftside]

I spent Sunday afternoon tuning up the Fox Performance Elite Float DPX2 shock and GRIP2 fork and was pleased with the results. Bike felt a little poppier and I was using all the travel even though there was now more air in both. Having said that, do Push offer upgrades for these shocks and forks?

I've always been happy with the Lyric on my Capra, but admittedly haven't ridden that bike for a while...

 

[KenX]

Are you still using the Motion Control damper?

At the moment, yes
I tend to ride with the compression fully open on all my bikes, just adjusting the rebound.
I'll go out today and have a play with the compression, but don't have any diving issues, maybe a bit of compression would help with chatter over repeated roots/stones?

Upgrading the spring to coil is a strong move.

Getting rid of the MOCO crap damper should be next. it's a turd.

But if I had to choose between spring OR damper, definitely spring first. Changing that out gives the most bang for the buck which anyone could appreciate. Then changing the damper is icing on the cake for the ultimate setup. The guys at Push advise the same, when asked.

Seems to me that the coil fixes the main problem with the lyric. But I dont see many fox grip2 owners moving to coil. There must be some logic in that somewhere.

In either case, switching to coil was an immediate and significant upgrade. Frankly, I see no advantage to an air spring over the ACS3, aside from weight - but even then the weight is a small difference for trail riding and irrelevant on an e-bike.

Aside from the performance gains, the coil requires far less maintenance, doesn't have to be constantly checked for pressure variances, and isn't affected by temperature change. Each ride provides a consistent feel.

Looking at Yari Up cartridge from Fast, simple install, good feedback and reasonably priced (€259 here in France) if I feel the need.....

 

[Doomanic]

The Yari-Up is on my radar too. Just can’t decide between a Smashpot or 170mm 2021 airshaft.

 

[KenX]

Doomanic, the smoothness and lack of stiction from the Smashpot knocks the airshaft out of the park!
Worth every penny, it's as big a change to the bike as the Bomber coil was........

 

[KenX]

Just got back from riding my favourite test trail, I set the compression to 6 clicks in from open and dialled in a bit more rebound, I "think" it was better over chattery bumps, the difference between 6 clicks and 7 is massive, way too firm on 7, so I see the need for a damper with proper adjustment!

 

[Pabs]

I ended up doing 600 miles on the MOCO before swppping, made my arms ache

 

[YokoOno]

I spent Sunday afternoon tuning up the Fox Performance Elite Float DPX2 shock and GRIP2 fork and was pleased with the results. . Having said that, do Push offer upgrades for these shocks and forks?

Push ACS3 would work for the fork. They can't do anything for the shock however.

 

[rb.]

Push ACS3 would work for the fork. They can't do anything for the shock however.

They can sell you a $1200 coil shock.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Ive ordered a 180 2021 debonair airshaft but i could see wanting a coil after i get a coil r shock. Ive always liked coil f/r. My old marz wc ti forl was awesome for seated climbing. It just never gets hung up on roots and rocks at slow speeds. Perfect app for an eeb id think.Does the smashpot have preload adjustment or do you just change the coil. Im running 30% sag in the rear but i usually run less on the fork , 20% give or take

 

[Doomanic]

Does the smashpot have preload adjustment or do you just change the coil.

I think it's just change the coil. Expensive if you get it wrong first time...

 

[Dirtnvert]

I think it's just change the coil. Expensive if you get it wrong first time...

Ah yes. Thanks. Might be nice to get a couple weight springs right from the start

 

[KenX]

You need to go up a weight on the spring due to the extra weight of the E-bike........

 

[Doomanic]

How much? I'm currently between springs anyway.

 

[YokoOno]

You need to go up a weight on the spring due to the extra weight of the E-bike........

The force of the bike on the front fork compared with a standard bike isn't much.
Stiffer damping is more important here than spring weight.

If going with the Push or Vorsprung product, I recommend sending either an email and asking them specifically. I know Push has their ACS3 recommendations dialed in

 

[KenX]

How much? I'm currently between springs anyway.

I was between 35 and 40lb springs for what I was hoping to achieve, 180mm travel, plush ride, no hucking, 73kg with kit.
I was on the fence and rang TFTuned and had a chat and we agreed on the 40lb spring, spot on, 30% sag and smooth as silk

 

[Dirtnvert]

Good info. I weigh about the same

 

[Loamranger]

Just got my Push ACS3 kit fitted to my Lyric by Jake at Sprung Suspension and it’s transformed the bikes DH performance. One of the best upgrades I’ve made, highly recommended. ?

 

[YokoOno]

Just got my Push ACS3 kit fitted to my Lyric by Jake at Sprung Suspension and it’s transformed the bikes DH performance. One of the best upgrades I’ve made, highly recommended. ?

When ready, upgrade the damper to Push HC97. It's creme de la creme

 

[Loamranger]

When ready, upgrade the damper to Push HC97. It's creme de la creme

Jake worked his magic on the RCT3 damper, so now a broader range than before, at the same time as fitting the Push kit. It still only has three positions though. Would the Push HC97 be even better do you think?

 

[YokoOno]

Jake worked his magic on the RCT3 damper, so now a broader range than before, at the same time as fitting the Push kit. It still only has three positions though. Would the Push HC97 be even better do you think?

I don't know what Jake does, so I can't really comment on "better." But I have HC97 on several bikes, and I've been a customer of Push's for years, and it's the best damper mod they've ever done. You can find great reviews on the web for additional info.