SL Bikes are only for fit riders.

[dirtridingAZ]

I am not the fittest rider and have some extra pounds. I have a full-power Emtb and enjoy riding it. Recently, I had a chance to ride a Trek EXe. I found it more challenging than my full power on (steep) climbs, but mild to med tech climbs were fine. I ran mid-power mode mostly, and the ride was 6 miles and 650 feet of climbing. I used up around 34% of the battery. Many of my late-day rides are at most 15 miles. I enjoyed the playful feel of the lighter bike, though I'm not in what may be perceived as the proper rider category for a mid-power. For discussion purposes. What is the opinion on a heavier rider having a SL bike in the stable?

 

[2WHLFUN]

The only negative would be range and if you weren’t happy with the power.

 

[Montana St Alum]

The only time I use full power is to outrun thunderstorms in the mountains. And then it comes in REALLY handy!

 

[Julie_X1]

I think it depends what bike you’re coming from.

I am not fit either but I mostly use “Eco” mode on my Trek Fuel EXe. (Which I also turned down a little.) My frame of reference is my regular MTB. I also did not want a heavier bike.

 

[dirtridingAZ]

It gets to 115 degrees in the summer in Phoenix, Arizona. A 10-mile ride is more than enough in that type of heat. My full power is just over kill on those days. As mentioned, this would be an addition to my full power.

 

[2WHLFUN]

I got my full power, aluminum framed, 630wh tank of an ebike as a placeholder until these new mid power lighter weight bikes were developed. I love riding it but want something more maneuverable. I also enjoy technical climbing and I’ve had a couple nasty falls with the 56lb bike.

My old bike will be great to get others hooked on emtb

 

[gaba]

It’s really up to you. The ebike is a tool. I know some who came from regular bikes who just want a little extra help. Yet I ride with crews that have full powered e-bikes. No way you’d keep up there with the lighter options. Depends fully on what your intended use is. You could probably even do your rides without a motor at all. Maybe not at first, but after so effort and consistency. Although maybe not as fun, forcing your body to push a bit harder has some clear benefits.

 

[Rubinstein]

I think your body weight shouldn’t matter, you’re still going to feel the difference coming from ff to sl, it’s just going to be a bit slower. If you can afford both then do it. The more you ride the sl the fitter you will become. I’ve just bought an sl after riding my ff for nearly 3 yrs. it was perfect when I started but now I find it’s to much bike for me now I have some fitness.

 

[cappuccino34]

I have both full power bikes and two Spesh SLs (KSL/LSL).
The SLs are much slower on the steep climbs, but faster everywhere else.
I'm not super fit, but I'm reasonably fit for a 54 year old.
I like doing long rides as a challenge (plus I don't get out as often as I would like to do, so I like to make the most of the opportunities that I do get). You can't do big mileage if you're using high power outputs, and the smaller motors are less draggy and more efficient at low outputs than a big motor is at the same output.
If I was riding to work, I'd put smooth tyres on the Levo SL and enjoy the light weight and efficiency.

 

[dirtridingAZ]

I ended up ordering a Trek Exe. A custom build so I should get it next week. I look forward to the differences and the challenges of each bike.

 

[Rubinstein]

I ended up ordering a Trek Exe. A custom build so I should get it next week. I look forward to the differences and the challenges of each bike.

Good luck with it

 

[mustclime]

I live in the north east, it’s getting cold. My buddy was riding with us last weekend with his Levo sl. Seems you can loose up to 20% of battery charge in cold weather. He was sucking electrons after 10 miles….
Sl bikes kinda add a strange dynamic to e bike rides I have been on. Every one with full power bikes ride eco mode for the poor under powered sl bikes. As a result the low/mid powered bike tend to ride by themselves. At least that my experience.

 

[KnollyBro]

I ended up ordering a Trek Exe. A custom build so I should get it next week. I look forward to the differences and the challenges of each bike.

Choice is always good. As previously mentioned, depending on what type of riding you do, both bikes will get you there. Your fitness and skill requirements MAY be different depending on the trails you ride but the enjoyment is all in your head!

 

[Rubinstein]

I live in the north east, it’s getting cold. My buddy was riding with us last weekend with his Levo sl. Seems you can loose up to 20% of battery charge in cold weather. He was sucking electrons after 10 miles….
Sl bikes kinda add a strange dynamic to e bike rides I have been on. Every one with full power bikes ride eco mode for the poor under powered sl bikes. As a result the low/mid powered bike tend to ride by themselves. At least that my experience.

Interesting what you say on batteries. I’ve got the FAZUA ride 60 system with a 430 battery and I’m getting 1300 mtrs of vertical, which is the same as the 800wh in my ff. However, I ride solo, and for sure I’m far slower on the sl over the same distance, consuming the same amount of battery. So I recon if I was in a group I’d take my ff bike instead

 

[cappuccino34]

I live in the north east, it’s getting cold. My buddy was riding with us last weekend with his Levo sl. Seems you can loose up to 20% of battery charge in cold weather. He was sucking electrons after 10 miles….
Sl bikes kinda add a strange dynamic to e bike rides I have been on. Every one with full power bikes ride eco mode for the poor under powered sl bikes. As a result the low/mid powered bike tend to ride by themselves. At least that my experience.

That's different to my own experience on both types of bike.
I don't think I could get my SL down to 10 miles range, even if I could find a 10 mile long hill to ride up. Is he really heavy/very unfit requiring lower gears to be used? (Covering less distance for a given energy level).

To get the same range from a full fat as you get on an SL you have to have the power turned down to SL sort of levels. It's energy, and the same battery capacity is going to give a similar motor power output for similar amount of time (or pro-rata).
If the full fats have much bigger batteries then obviously they can get more distance for a given power level, or a higher power level for a given distance, but those bigger batteries and heavier motors make for a less nimble bike.

 

[CjP]

My findings (with all bikes in turbo), I found with the SL (both LSL and KSL) that the range was roughly comparable with 500w FF bike and with the Range extender comparable to a 625/700w ff. All times I had around 5% more than the others (bar the Shimano, that I had at least 15/20% more)
Of course there are many variables and obviously the FF pulled ahead of me on the steep climbs.

 

[KnollyBro]

My findings (with all bikes in turbo), I found with the SL (both LSL and KSL) that the range was roughly comparable with 500w FF bike and with the Range extender comparable to a 625/700w ff. All times I had around 5% more than the others (bar the Shimano, that I had at least 15/20% more)
Of course there are many variables and obviously the FF pulled ahead of me on the steep climbs.

But who had more fun on the DH, the Fatties or SLs? Is life a journey or a destination? I am hoping the next innovation is regenerative braking so that the batteries can be recharged with the massive amounts of vertical I do going DOWN the mountain

 

[CjP]

But who had more fun on the DH, the Fatties or SLs? Is life a journey or a destination? I am hoping the next innovation is regenerative braking so that the batteries can be recharged with the massive amounts of vertical I do going DOWN the mountain

Always me.
A flickable lightweight chunk crusher makes for much fun.

 

[Tubby G]

It makes me laugh when I see videos on channels such as EMBN stating that lightweight bikes are more suitable for lighter / fitter riders, as it couldn’t be further from the truth.

I’m a heavy guy, and am luckily enough to have both full fat and lightweight bikes.

The lightweight bike is by far the nicer bike to ride. It not only handles far better, but it’s the braking that I find a big advantage. You can brake later on a lightweight, almost just like how a normal mtb handles, whereas I have to brake sooner on a full fat. On steep techy terrrain I find the lightweight bike far more confidence inspiring going downhill.

As said in this thread before, range wise, a lightweight compares to a 625Wh full fat, especially if using a range extender. A lightweight bike with a range extender fitted still feels far more agile than a full fat. I have proper wheels and tyres on my lightweight, so weight has been added, but range or power isn’t noticeably affected at all.

The only advantage the full fat offers is riding in turbo. Granted, a lightweight will never be able to match turbo mode, but I’m not one to use turbo often on the full fat.

If you need to ride everywhere in turbo mode, then full fat is the way to go, otherwise I’d recommend SL bikes

 

[Tone461]

These days anything EMBN does makes me laugh.....

 

[Tooks]

The lightweight bike is by far the nicer bike to ride. It not only handles far better, but it’s the braking that I find a big advantage. You can brake later on a lightweight, almost just like how a normal mtb handles, whereas I have to brake sooner on a full fat. On steep techy terrrain I find the lightweight bike far more confidence inspiring going downhill.

How much of that is down to the setup of the individual bikes though do you think?

A Levo SL is about 4kg lighter than my Levo, which is worth having but in terms of the overall weight of rider, bike and kit it’s a small percentage.

Physics says less mass to brake means later braking, but is it really noticeable? Perhaps there’s something else going on here, like the tyres, lighter wheelset (less unsprung weight), the suspension setup, or even just placebo like the more ‘playful’ bike puts you in a different riding mood?

I’m of the view it’s easier (and cheaper!) to lose 4kg of rider weight than buy a 4kg lighter SL, the bike for most people is actually only a small part of the overall weight.

I think we worry about bike weight too much, I know my riding is better (whatever the bike) when I’m at 90kg rather than the 98kg I am at the moment…

 

[Tubby G]

How much of that is down to the setup of the individual bikes though do you think?

A Levo SL is about 4kg lighter than my Levo, which is worth having but in terms of the overall weight of rider, bike and kit it’s a small percentage.

Physics says less mass to brake means later braking, but is it really noticeable? Perhaps there’s something else going on here, like the tyres, lighter wheelset (less unsprung weight), the suspension setup, or even just placebo like the more ‘playful’ bike puts you in a different riding mood?

I’m of the view it’s easier (and cheaper!) to lose 4kg of rider weight than buy a 4kg lighter SL, the bike for most people is actually only a small part of the overall weight.

I think we worry about bike weight too much, I know my riding is better (whatever the bike) when I’m at 90kg rather than the 98kg I am at the moment…

True. My first full fat was a lockdown bike (only bike available) - Haibike Allmtn, with Bosch motor and 625Wh battery. I enjoyed it in its honeymoon period but as soon as we started venturing off piste it’s limitations soon became very apparent. It was a complete tank, weighed in at 26kg, and with my added weight I found it difficult to control on the steep sections. Geo isn’t great on that bike. That lead me to going for an Orbea Rise and it was the right decision, complete game changer.

I recently purchased a Canyon StriveOn, mainly for the geometry and longer travel, plus I managed to get it for a great price, so couldn’t resist. I was also interested to see why everyone raves about the Bosch motor as my initial impression from the Haibike wasn’t great, so thought I’d try the new generation smart motor with the 750Wh battery.

It does ride far better than the Haibike obviously, and is more agile, but it still doesn’t give me much range advantage over the Orbea and feels slower when pedalling the climbs (unless turbo). Unfortunately I haven’t been able to ride it as much as I would like due to the recent weather conditions so it’s still very early days to compare

 

[Dax]

How much of that is down to the setup of the individual bikes though do you think?

Some but not all. I have an OG Kenevo and a Kenevo SL, done about 2000miles on the FF and about 1000 on the SL. 100% agree with what Tubby said:

The lightweight bike is by far the nicer bike to ride. It not only handles far better, but it’s the braking that I find a big advantage. You can brake later on a lightweight, almost just like how a normal mtb handles, whereas I have to brake sooner on a full fat. On steep techy terrrain I find the lightweight bike far more confidence inspiring going downhill.

As said in this thread before, range wise, a lightweight compares to a 625Wh full fat, especially if using a range extender. A lightweight bike with a range extender fitted still feels far more agile than a full fat. I have proper wheels and tyres on my lightweight, so weight has been added, but range or power isn’t noticeably affected at all.

The only advantage the full fat offers is riding in turbo. Granted, a lightweight will never be able to match turbo mode, but I’m not one to use turbo often on the full fat.

If you need to ride everywhere in turbo mode, then full fat is the way to go, otherwise I’d recommend SL bikes

Suggest you demo a Levo SL and see. I had no intention of buying a new e-bike until I did a lap on Doomanic’s SL, then I bought one a week later.

 

[Tubby G]

Some but not all. I have an OG Kenevo and a Kenevo SL, done about 2000miles on the FF and about 1000 on the SL. 100% agree with what Tubby said:



Suggest you demo a Levo SL and see. I had no intention of buying a new e-bike until I did a lap on Doomanic’s SL, then I bought one a week later.

I have been tempted by Kenevo SL’s and have seen them flying around the trails around our way. If only the new motor was backwards compatible with the older frames. I suppose when I decided to get another bike, it made sense to me at the time to go full fat again, as I’m enjoying the Rise so much, rather than having another lightweight in the quiver.

 

[Tubby G]

And the new Levo SL’s are definitely tempting too

 

[Dax]

I have been tempted by Kenevo SL’s and have seen them flying around the trails around our way. If only the new motor was backwards compatible with the older frames.

The KSL/LSL 2 motor is compatible with the old frames, you just can’t buy it as an upgrade

 

[Tooks]

Suggest you demo a Levo SL and see. I had no intention of buying a new e-bike until I did a lap on Doomanic’s SL, then I bought one a week later.

Oh, I’ve had a shortish ride on a demo SL2, nothing particularly challenging, and don’t get me wrong it felt like a nice bike and it did feel lighter, possibly wheelset related as well as the SLs wheels and tyres were lighter than any I usually run.

I’ve got a Focus Jam2 with the 378Wh battery which is a lighter bike than my Levo, not quite 19kg Levo SL territory but sub 21kg, and it’s a great ride even with the 70Nm E8000 motor.

I’m just wary of diminishing returns, and the fact that no two bikes are the same geometry, suspension, tyre and leverage etc etc.

The main thing is that we enjoy whatever it is we ride!

 

[cappuccino34]

It makes me laugh when I see videos on channels such as EMBN stating that lightweight bikes are more suitable for lighter / fitter riders, as it couldn’t be further from the truth.

I’m a heavy guy, and am luckily enough to have both full fat and lightweight bikes.

The lightweight bike is by far the nicer bike to ride. It not only handles far better, but it’s the braking that I find a big advantage. You can brake later on a lightweight, almost just like how a normal mtb handles, whereas I have to brake sooner on a full fat. On steep techy terrrain I find the lightweight bike far more confidence inspiring going downhill.

As said in this thread before, range wise, a lightweight compares to a 625Wh full fat, especially if using a range extender. A lightweight bike with a range extender fitted still feels far more agile than a full fat. I have proper wheels and tyres on my lightweight, so weight has been added, but range or power isn’t noticeably affected at all.

The only advantage the full fat offers is riding in turbo. Granted, a lightweight will never be able to match turbo mode, but I’m not one to use turbo often on the full fat.

If you need to ride everywhere in turbo mode, then full fat is the way to go, otherwise I’d recommend SL bikes

Absolutely agree with all of that.

 

[cappuccino34]

I actually fell into the SL by accident. I was riding a full fat bike, but had a daft intention of doing a route near me called the 'Mary Townley Loop' twice in a day, once in each direction. It wouldn't have been possible to do it on one bike because of battery limitations, so I borrowed the Levo SL that I'd bought my lad (being a skinny teenager he was short of upper body strength for bike lifting).
Anyway, doing a lap on the SL I fell in love with it.
I bought the KSL (with massive discount) because the Levo was a little underbiked for some of the riding we do.

 

[michael_bc]

I am not the fittest rider and have some extra pounds. I have a full-power Emtb and enjoy riding it. Recently, I had a chance to ride a Trek EXe. I found it more challenging than my full power on (steep) climbs, but mild to med tech climbs were fine. I ran mid-power mode mostly, and the ride was 6 miles and 650 feet of climbing. I used up around 34% of the battery. Many of my late-day rides are at most 15 miles. I enjoyed the playful feel of the lighter bike, though I'm not in what may be perceived as the proper rider category for a mid-power. For discussion purposes. What is the opinion on a heavier rider having a SL bike in the stable?

I have never tried the Trek, but based on my Orbea Rise, here are my thoughts.

I have a full-fat Focus Thron2 with Bosch CX 85 Nm and now also an Orbea Rise with 60 Nm. I consider myself heavy at 90kg. I'm using the same tires on both bikes (Assegai + Dissector).

My observations:

1. I don't notice the loss of 25 Nm. The Rise forces me in a higher cadence, but it doesn't feel more exhausting. Maybe I'm getting a better workout, but I'm not getting more tired, maybe also due to the next point...
2. The Rise climbs much better. I live in the Alps, so my climbs are steep and technical. The more natural pedaling of the Rise makes it much easier to climb. The Bosch motor tends to throw the front wheel up in e-MTB and Turbo modes, rear wheel skids more, etc.
3. So far, the 1.5x battery claim seems to hold
4. The playful downhill is so much better

So perhaps the thesis should be: SL bikes will make you a fit rider?