Bosch Riders are LAZY !!!

[Zimmerframe]

@Zimmerframe : if you look really carefully, you should be able to find the recharge button on the motor which will add power to your battery when you pedal backwards... ?

View attachment 63857

Makes my predicted ranges look pitiful !

I wish I could squeeze my Purion in like that. I can get the purion bracket through the tiny gap between the back of the XT and the shimano bracket, but then the purion fouls on the shimano bracket and won't close up. Humbug !

Can anyone beat the 313km predicted range challenge !

 

[Mikerb]

Makes my predicted ranges look pitiful !

I wish I could squeeze my Purion in like that. I can get the purion bracket through the tiny gap between the back of the XT and the shimano bracket, but then the purion fouls on the shimano bracket and won't close up. Humbug !

Can anyone beat the 313km predicted range challenge !

........yep but only by photoshopping the decimal point out!!

 

[Doomanic]

Can anyone beat the 313km predicted range challenge !

No, and if you can, you've wasted your money buying an eeb.

 

[Rosemount]

OK, maybe that's a bit click bait but I was following the theme of @MrMarzocchi post

I've always thought my kenevo motor is a bit tight/inefficient/incorrect. I've ridden Bosch bikes before, but never for a whole ride to see what's actually going on.

But basically, you have it sooooo easy !!! What an amazing motor.

It still chomps through the power if you're riding hard on steep ups, but if you do anything a bit more sedate it's almost a perpetual motion machine.

Just did a ride where strava crashed a few times unfortunately when I took pictures ?!? something to do with my phone I guess, so it missed some distance/elevation but it was still impressive :

After about 3km's and the horrible purion (sponsored by time warp Nokia) had re-calibrated itself in Eco to none steep terrain.

View attachment 63747

After 10km's, predicted range kept increasing.

View attachment 63748

After 25km's (where my Kenevo was flat last time I did the same ride and had to ride back empty) range was still increasing and no bars used.

View attachment 63749

After 35km's .... STILL INCREASING !!

View attachment 63750

After about 45/50km's, finally dropped a bar with 106km's still predicted.

View attachment 63751

Actual ride was a bit longer and more elevation, but you get the idea.

Oooh La Bosch ! | Strava

So I've always thought my Brose motor was pretty draggy and low range, but the Bosch is incredible !! Just rode in Eco but the range is out of this world. Strava crashed a few times when I took pictures, so missed some of the ride 😩 Was a bit lazy and stopped for a coffee break, a tea break...

www.strava.com

WOW ! Love it.

Are you sure your settings in Mission Control / BLEVO on the Kenevo aren`t turned waaay up ?
I have owned both motors and get similar ranges from both with 500 ish batteries .

I was having trouble with the Brose in my Kenevo running out of battery after 20 + KM . I called up Spesh rider care in Oz and made some inquiries . Turned out my acceleration and support in trail mode were on full ! Adjusted back to my own settings and 20 KM used less than half my battery ...

 

[Eddy Current]

If you are fit you hardly need more than eco mode on ebikes, unless you want to climb like a moto in turbo or some like that

I don’t know why people senses more modes are better, ebikes only need two auto modes, one with ascending power for that technical climbs and other with descending power for fireroad. Is people what need to learn how to use the shifter also on emtbs

 

[Zimmerframe]

Are you sure your settings in Mission Control / BLEVO on the Kenevo aren`t turned waaay up ?
I have owned both motors and get similar ranges from both with 500 ish batteries .

I was having trouble with the Brose in my Kenevo running out of battery after 20 + KM . I called up Spesh rider care in Oz and made some inquiries . Turned out my acceleration and support in trail mode were on full ! Adjusted back to my own settings and 20 KM used less than half my battery ...

It's a 1.3 and not a 2.1, so no Acceleration Response or Shuttle. I think it has a tight bearing or something somewhere in there. I did a thread on it right at the start and all my wh/km were double anyone elses on comparisons. Have reset, reset, reset some more, tried a zillion different settings. If I run 5%/5% support in eco I can just about get 50k out of it on easy terrain. Powered off it's fine, though way more draggy than the Bosch. It was relatively easy to be hitting 36kph uphill on tarmac on the Bosch and 40kph on flat rocky farm tracks (With Magic Mary's). 30kph on the Brose and I'm working like a mad man. So who knows - in turbo it's fine and fly's - but sucks the battery in seconds (7 km's my worst - including descents). Think I'll be riding the Focus more than the Spesh in the near future !

 

[CjP]

Something was definitely wrong with your Gen1 battery Zim. My old one still gets 45km with 1200 elevation on turbo.
Glad you finally got a proper working one now!

 

[Bille]

If you are fit you hardly need more than eco mode on ebikes, unless you want to climb like a moto in turbo or some like that

I don’t know why people senses more modes are better, ebikes only need two auto modes, one with ascending power for that technical climbs and other with descending power for fireroad. Is people what need to learn how to use the shifter also on emtbs

Some folks are less fit or less able. Hence ebikes need more than only two auto modes. IMHO.

 

[ecotrials]

I agree with having power assist options.
I got my Levo Comp in October and have now ridden over 1500 miles, 310,000 feet of climbing with about 240 hours of riding time.
I have Eco set to 15-50%, Trail set to 50-85% and Turbo set to 100%.

I try to ride without assistance most of the time, so when I typically start using assistance I am already in the lowest gear. This varies by terrain, but I usually go to Eco when the gradient is 10 to 25% (the length of the climb usually factors in, meaning if it is a longish climb, I start assistance at a shallower gradient). Trail is used typically 20 to 25%, Turbo when I doubt I can make it in Trail.
Sometimes I get surprised by how well I am climbing and go down a level to see if that will work.

The park I ride in has over 50 miles of fire roads and hills that get into the mid to high 30's. The steepest one I still haven't been able to measure. I'm guessing it is about 38%. But I am so busy riding up this steep, loose and rutted trail I cannot take the time to glance at the Blevo app to read it.

I have been using a remote to increase or decrease assistance by either 5 or 15 %. I find this is a great way to tailor assistance to the topography and usually extends battery capability.

My two longest rides have been;
47 miles, about 11,000 feet of climbing, 8 hours of ride time and 84% of the 700 War battery
55 miles, about 23,500 feet of climbing, 8.5 hours of ride time, and 93% of the battery.

I am now trying to design a ride that will utilize every fire road. This necessitates riding some areas more than once. So far I have been able to find a route that is around 61 miles. I have tried to go down the steepest bits, but not always possible. It will be interesting to see if I can do it.
My concern is trying to get an addition 6 miles out of 7%, knowing that later in the ride I will likely need more assistance, not less.

As an aside, I turn 71 next week.
And for me, the more assistance control I have, the better!

 

[Sander23]

OK, maybe that's a bit click bait but I was following the theme of @MrMarzocchi post

I've always thought my kenevo motor is a bit tight/inefficient/incorrect. I've ridden Bosch bikes before, but never for a whole ride to see what's actually going on.

But basically, you have it sooooo easy !!! What an amazing motor.

It still chomps through the power if you're riding hard on steep ups, but if you do anything a bit more sedate it's almost a perpetual motion machine.

Just did a ride where strava crashed a few times unfortunately when I took pictures ?!? something to do with my phone I guess, so it missed some distance/elevation but it was still impressive :

After about 3km's and the horrible purion (sponsored by time warp Nokia) had re-calibrated itself in Eco to none steep terrain.

View attachment 63747

After 10km's, predicted range kept increasing.

View attachment 63748

After 25km's (where my Kenevo was flat last time I did the same ride and had to ride back empty) range was still increasing and no bars used.

View attachment 63749

After 35km's .... STILL INCREASING !!

View attachment 63750

After about 45/50km's, finally dropped a bar with 106km's still predicted.

View attachment 63751

Actual ride was a bit longer and more elevation, but you get the idea.

Oooh La Bosch ! | Strava

So I've always thought my Brose motor was pretty draggy and low range, but the Bosch is incredible !! Just rode in Eco but the range is out of this world. Strava crashed a few times when I took pictures, so missed some of the ride 😩 Was a bit lazy and stopped for a coffee break, a tea break...

www.strava.com

WOW ! Love it.

 

[Old Mike]

OK, maybe that's a bit click bait but I was following the theme of @MrMarzocchi post

I've always thought my kenevo motor is a bit tight/inefficient/incorrect. I've ridden Bosch bikes before, but never for a whole ride to see what's actually going on.

But basically, you have it sooooo easy !!! What an amazing motor.

It still chomps through the power if you're riding hard on steep ups, but if you do anything a bit more sedate it's almost a perpetual motion machine.

Just did a ride where strava crashed a few times unfortunately when I took pictures ?!? something to do with my phone I guess, so it missed some distance/elevation but it was still impressive :

After about 3km's and the horrible purion (sponsored by time warp Nokia) had re-calibrated itself in Eco to none steep terrain.

View attachment 63747

After 10km's, predicted range kept increasing.

View attachment 63748

After 25km's (where my Kenevo was flat last time I did the same ride and had to ride back empty) range was still increasing and no bars used.

View attachment 63749

After 35km's .... STILL INCREASING !!

View attachment 63750

After about 45/50km's, finally dropped a bar with 106km's still predicted.

View attachment 63751

Actual ride was a bit longer and more elevation, but you get the idea.

Oooh La Bosch ! | Strava

So I've always thought my Brose motor was pretty draggy and low range, but the Bosch is incredible !! Just rode in Eco but the range is out of this world. Strava crashed a few times when I took pictures, so missed some of the ride 😩 Was a bit lazy and stopped for a coffee break, a tea break...

www.strava.com

WOW ! Love it.

I get loads of exercise swapping my motors in and out when they break. A good 60 minutes of arm and brain workout.

 

[Zimmerframe]

How even are the Bosch Bars in terms of range and power ? The Shimano bars are like an inverted pyramid - so the first bar gives you about 40% of your battery. The last bar means you have about 14 meters left if you're lucky.

Just clicked from 2 to 1 bar and said I had a range of 3km's so came back. Curious how much I really have left. Will have to ride the rest out tonight and see how far it goes.

 

[Mteam]

I have the kiox display so I get the exact percentage remaining on my bosch, but I have ridden it down to completely dead, and the 10%-0% does seem a bit smaller than 100%-90%, but not hugely so.

Mine got to about 3% - then very quickly dropped to 2%, then did a couple of hundred meters of surging power, then it shut down, just went straight to 0%.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Theoretically, I still have 20% if the bars are even. Which might be a real 20% if they've done it properly. Didn't notice any loss in power so I guess the Bosch system runs voltage compensation - or it was still high enough to not notice it.

 

[Mteam]

Theoretically, I still have 20% if the bars are even. Which might be a real 20% if they've done it properly. Didn't notice any loss in power so I guess the Bosch system runs voltage compensation - or it was still high enough to not notice it.

I didnt notice any loss of power until I was down to 2 or 3 %, by which point I was minutes away from running out entirely. I think the last 20% is slightly smaller than the other 20%'s but not hugely so.

 

[GrahamPaul]

I didnt notice any loss of power until I was down to 2 or 3 %, by which point I was minutes away from running out entirely. I think the last 20% is slightly smaller than the other 20%'s but not hugely so.

I ran mine right out when I first got it, just to test what would happen. It was a long time ago, but ISTR that it just flashed the Purion display a couple of times and then the motor stopped.

I find that the final 40% disappears faster than the first 60% these days, but that could be that the batteries are starting to age a bit. If ever I find a Bosch dealer who can check the battery health, I'll be interested to see the state of them. It gets bloody hot here in the summer which, I believe, is worse for the batteries than getting them too cold. ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

EMTB mode test with a mix of trails, tracks and road bits as I tried to avoid storms.

Really impressed again, the Gen4 kicks ass :

On the Bosch Bars ..
My first did about 25km's.
The second did about 20km's on a similar mix of terrain.
The third did 10km's on much steeper and all off road terrain.
The fourth did about 15km's on similar terrain to the first two bars.
The last did 11km's on similar terrain and half in ECO as it said I wasn't going to make it in EMTB mode.

One interesting thing was the predicted range towards the end. This now seems to be VERY accurate. 1km away from the end it said I had 1km Left. I carried on past the house and hit ZERO ! ... 200 meters later it stopped and just flashed the battery bar.

Predicted range as it went through the bars was also pretty accurate.

 

[Gyre]

Yesterday I rode 35.6 miles and 5600+ elevation gain in mostly Tour mode with a final ~1/2 mile climb in mostly Turbo. Using the double battery setup, I started at 92/94 and finished with 31/32. That put me at ~692 watts consumption.

Not too bad considering my ~100kg weight and the more aggressive assist. A lighter rider would have pulled it off solely on the internal battery, it would have just been just about a full 100/0 charge/discharge cycle.

 

[H.E.]

I didnt notice any loss of power until I was down to 2 or 3 %, by which point I was minutes away from running out entirely. I think the last 20% is slightly smaller than the other 20%'s but not hugely so.

Have the same experience when the power goes down its basically over.

 

[Sander23]

EMTB mode test with a mix of trails, tracks and road bits as I tried to avoid storms.

Really impressed again, the Gen4 kicks ass :

View attachment 64834

On the Bosch Bars ..
My first did about 25km's.
The second did about 20km's on a similar mix of terrain.
The third did 10km's on much steeper and all off road terrain.
The fourth did about 15km's on similar terrain to the first two bars.
The last did 11km's on similar terrain and half in ECO as it said I wasn't going to make it in EMTB mode.

One interesting thing was the predicted range towards the end. This now seems to be VERY accurate. 1km away from the end it said I had 1km Left. I carried on past the house and hit ZERO ! ... 200 meters later it stopped and just flashed the battery bar.

Predicted range as it went through the bars was also pretty accurate.

The bars have different range the more u go down??

 

[Zimmerframe]

It certainly feels like it.

Not as extreme as the Shimano inverted pyramid, but each bar with slightly less range than the bar before it.

Would have to test it just endlessly circling the same climb/descent at the same speed to confirm.

 

[Doomanic]

Power is a product of volts times amps. As the battery goes from fully charged to flat there is a drop in voltage. It’s not a straight line. There is an initial drop from the fully charged voltage, then a long plateau, which isn’t actually flat, and finally the voltage drops off a cliff.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Power is a product of volts times amps. As the battery goes from fully charged to flat there is a drop in voltage. It’s not a straight line. There is an initial drop from the fully charged voltage, then a long plateau, which isn’t actually flat, and finally the voltage drops off a cliff.

View attachment 64995

I'm guessing the Bosch system has voltage compensation. Like spesh introduced on the 2.1 recently. So if the bars don't compensate for that, then it would explain the faster loss, as you don't seem to get the power drop you feel on the brose without compensation.

 

[Doomanic]

The other thing to consider is as the ride progresses you’ll fatigue and use the motor support more.

 

[Zimmerframe]

The other thing to consider is as the ride progresses you’ll fatigue and use the motor support more.

LIES !

Actually, I did try to stay consistent and just pushed as hard for the whole ride - though the last 5-6km's I was flagging.

 

[Gyre]

I'm guessing the Bosch system has voltage compensation. Like spesh introduced on the 2.1 recently. So if the bars don't compensate for that, then it would explain the faster loss, as you don't seem to get the power drop you feel on the brose without compensation.

It should be pretty straightforward to create a table or formula to convert the nonlinear voltage map back to a linear measure of capacity. The only question is whether the engineers were actually tasked with the conversion, since it's much easier and faster to just write (Vcurrent-Vempty)/(Vmax-Vempty).

 

[Zimmerframe]

It calculates the range correctly. The range per bar step is not equal either.

So all bars are not the same. They are probably accurate to "capacity", but not to usable energy with voltage compensation.

 

[Rosemount]

I find charging the 1st 2/3 charge much faster than the last 1 /3 .
I relate that to output . 1st 1/3 will have greater range than last 2/3 . Also Spesh go into some power save mode on the last cpl of bars . Feels like eco when in trail .

 

[GrahamPaul]

I find charging the 1st 2/3 charge much faster than the last 1 /3 .

That's because the Bosch battery management system reduces the charging amps for the last 20% to protect the battery and prolong its life.

 

[Doomanic]

It balances all the cells during the last 20%.

All lithium chargers drop the current as the voltage increases to minimise cell damage.