Lighter Riders / Heavier Bikes - Handling Struggles?

[arTNC]

Having road raced motorcycles for 10 years AFAIK "counter steering" ojly starts to comes into affect at ~10mph+. Is the Laydee in question approaching corners at 10mph+? I doubt it.

You bring up a point that is even debated today about counter steer on dirt motorcycles vs street applications. I think the 10mph point is probably not set in stone but is only a general rule of thumb for a street bike...different bikes, geometry, surfaces, etc., etc., as I think you would know. With a dirt motor being lighter and usually way different geometry and rider placement, I think the envelope changes...and with a bicycle, maybe even more...but probably more dirt motor'ish than street motor.

On the cornering at 10mph, maybe I'm looking at that differently. I definitely approach different corners at different speeds, but 10mph isn't that dramatic, is it? I definitely approach a lot of corners at 10mph into the turn, and some can even maintain or exceed that speed...but...obviously there are corners and there are corners...LOL!

I certainly won't claim much knowledge about road racing pavement bikes, though I own and have owned many sporty street motors. All of my racing background comes from enduro racing with a little MX on the side.

 

[irie]

You bring up a point that is even debated today about counter steer on dirt motorcycles vs street applications. I think the 10mph point is probably not set in stone but is only a general rule of thumb for a street bike...different bikes, geometry, surfaces, etc., etc., as I think you would know. With a dirt motor being lighter and usually way different geometry and rider placement, I think the envelope changes...and with a bicycle, maybe even more...but probably more dirt motor'ish than street motor.

On the cornering at 10mph, maybe I'm looking at that differently. I definitely approach different corners at different speeds, but 10mph isn't that dramatic, is it? I definitely approach a lot of corners at 10mph into the turn, and some can even maintain or exceed that speed...but...obviously there are corners and there are corners...LOL!

I certainly won't claim much knowledge about road racing pavement bikes, though I own and have owned many sporty street motors. All of my racing background comes from enduro racing with a little MX on the side.

More blah blah blah to try to obfuscate the counter steering issue. It's not about you, it's about the Laydee in the OP. hth

 

[arTNC]

So you're saying a Laydee is unable to corner at 10mph. That sounds rather sexist.

Just kidding, of course.

 

[skinnyboy]

Not wishing to belabour the countersteering point, but might be pertinent, (please feel free to correct me).

Above walking speed leaning is how two wheelers (of all types) turn, aside from brake or power sliding, or utilizing a berm. Counter steering initiates the lean and steering into the turn brings us upright. There have been a lot of "techniques" (really mental crutches) espoused over the years, whether "steering with your hips" on bicycles or "weighting the outside peg" on motorcycles. At the end of the day we are counter steering, perhaps without realizing it, since it seems counter intuitive.

"The crashes have typically been on mellow DH corners where she's not pedaling, but it's something I'll keep an eye on."

One problematic situation is riding at too low a speed for the turn, and initially leaning too far for the lower speed. Now we have to bring ourselves more upright to maintain balance in the turn, so we have to steer into it. If done aggressively the tire's contact patch becomes poorer while we are turning in harder. Add a loose or off camber surface and the chance of pushing the tire increase. The bike weight can seem like an issue now as we might be off balance, but it's not the initial cause.

Perhaps the new bike of the OP's GF has a longer reach, compounding the situation.

Cheers.

 

[Emailsucks98]

Is the Laydee in question approaching corners at 10mph+? I doubt it.

A lighter bike (with shorter wheelbase) will be easier and less intimidating for a 65kg female to manoeuvre.

Sexism is alive and well, I see!

 

[irie]

Sexism is alive and well, I see!

As said in post #41 in this thread:

It's physiological. Would you like me to spell out human male vs female physiological differences in detail?

 

[slippery pete]

experiment with a lot more psi in the fork ... it’s made a massive difference. Bike sits in its mid travel a lot more rather than diving.

^^^this feels right.

I don't know the characteristics of that fork but most forks I have used are set up wrong if they have 30% sag.
Fork sag is really difficult to do with meaningful accuracy, especially for a low weight rider. If you relegate sag to being the starting point for setup and follow on by making adjustments (that you measure) from that starting point you're opening up the window for finding the right setup. My hunch, like @Julz, is that you should go a good bit firmer on the fork.

Do not use "getting full travel" as an indicator of correct setup. I've been riding a 170 Lyrik recently that I've got set up with pretty aggressive compression damping and I've got to be thumping some serious g-outs to go deep in the travel. 90% of my riding it's using up to ~130mm of travel and no more but it isn't harsh and it is super controlled. I've got it set this way because this is my optimum (not necessarily anybody else's). I'm just advising that the parameters of "working" can be much more personal than the getting full travel dogma... so experiment.

One trick I've been using recently is to bounce my suspension setup by pushing down on the top tube just ahead of the saddle and looking for proportionate movement of the front and rear suspension. This is very subjective but, when setting up someone else's bike where they're a very different weight to you, it feels like a good way to sense check the balance of the setup quickly. Might not work for you (or anybody) but costs 15 seconds of your curiosity to try it.