Should we be ethic worried about e-bike / batteries?

[ggx]

From extraction process to disposal there are several significant environmental impacts.
Should we start to demand for some kind of certified brands on prodution and disposal/recycle methods?

 

[MattyB]

Not if we can get the message over about recycling, I don't think so - we can't reasonably expect to decarbonise transport infrastructure without utilising alternative like ebikes at significant scale.

Here in the EU we have laws requiring the original manufacturer to pickup and recycle packs at the end of their life, but the problem is getting consumers to understand that and make sure it happens, especially for smaller (i.e. non-automotive) packs as in ebikes. I'm sure further legislation will come in time to push this harder and increase recycling rates.

 

[Peaky Rider]

From extraction process to disposal there are several significant environmental impacts.
Should we start to demand for some kind of certified brands on prodution and disposal/recycle methods?

No!
If we are that concerned we should all go back to pedal bikes, stop taking holidays abroad, stop upgrading our phones every year and reconsider all the aspects of modern life that are having an impact on the planet's future.
Or just accept that it is inevitable that we will eventually go the way of the dinosaurs.

 

[cozzy]

Nope. This isnt the singletrackworld forums

 

[andytiedye]

More concerned about the lead-acid battery in my car, and the ones my solar panels are hooked up to. Lithium-ion batteries are relatively benign.

 

[Mikerb]

Not worried a bout battery production for Ebikes…..horses for courses ( or was that bikes?!) but the push to use them in cars is about as stupid as it gets and both Japan and the US will in time demonstrate that with their alternative strategy.

 

[Shifty]

Guilty as Charged ???

 

[YrianX]

From extraction process to disposal there are several significant environmental impacts.
Should we start to demand for some kind of certified brands on prodution and disposal/recycle methods?

NO!

 

[Pdoz]

Thanks for raising the issue , and perhaps before we reply it might be worth reflecting on the concerns.

1 there's a carbon cost for producing AND ALSO recycling our batteries - not just the lithium, but also the other rare metals. AND all the other consumables on our toys. Imagine if everyone was tossing out a 500 w lithium battery every year because they wanted the latest color / geometry / extra couple of metres range etc.

2 visit a mining region before deciding " no" ! Perhaps have a think about the social / health implications as well - these batteries are valuable , and even in Australia we see dubious social consequences in mining - corporate greed costs.

I bought my bike before thinking about any of this, I'm REALY hoping that if / when I upgrade there will be a more transparent / acceptable option.

 

[Mikerb]

Reality check. The most dangerous workllaces are building sites and farm land...are we to stop building houses and eating food....incidentally if you are worried about co2...cows produce far more than cars! Every mineral is mined with the inherent dangers etc...are we to ban steel aluminium copper zinc? Nobody raised concerns about the millions of mobile phones each of which contains a cocktail of precious metals and of course a battery. Its all a matter of balance....bit like riding a bike!

 

[Mikerb]

Ps I think we will survive longer than the dinosaurs provided we dont all worry ourselves to death.

 

[njn]

batteries are easily recyclable, carbon fiber is not.

 

[Pdoz]

Reality check. The most dangerous workllaces are building sites and farm land...are we to stop building houses and eating food....incidentally if you are worried about co2...cows produce far more than cars! Every mineral is mined with the inherent dangers etc...are we to ban steel aluminium copper zinc? Nobody raised concerns about the millions of mobile phones each of which contains a cocktail of precious metals and of course a battery. Its all a matter of balance....bit like riding a bike!

No, the most dangerous worksites IN YOUR COUNTRY - try spending a day working the cadmium mines in bolivia, or living down wind / stream of them.

 

[Pdoz]

batteries are easily recyclable, carbon fiber is not.

I live in Australia - we provide 30% of current lithium world wide yet don't have anywhere that recycles lithium batteries. Most of our ewaste ends up in landfill , and even the product that makes it to recycling facilities often gets rejected . My towns household recycling program has stalled because our population can't even follow simple rules like not putting recycling products in single use plastic bags...so it gets rejected by the countries it is shipped to - that's correct, we ship our recycling to other countries! At least we used to.

If I want to recycle a lithium battery , I have to travel 60 km to the nearest depot.

 

[ggx]

In Congo cobalt is extracted from the ground by hand, often using child labour, without protective equipment.
why should we care as long we look the other side !?

 

[wepn]

In Congo cobalt is extracted from the ground by hand, often using child labour, without protective equipment.
why should we care as long we look the other side !?

Very true...firstly cobalt needs to stay in the ground as much as coal & oil. Fair trade certification for safer recyclable base materials is maybe a utopian dream hopefully not.

It's also important to compare the energy use of a reasonably efficient e-bike / emtb say < 10 Wh/km vs anything else you want to compare.

 

[Fivetones]

We've touched on this in other threads. The tendency to obsoleting EMTB models after two years and the poor reliability of motors are a real issue.

Whilst many don't see issue in non-environmental sustainability currently I guarantee attitudes will change over the next 24 months.

 

[ggx]

Don´t want to be utopic (not possible to live in a zero waste world), but maybe our world would be a little better if we have some concerns about the way we choose products/brands.
Eco/green /blue/ blablá labels sometimes is litle more than marketing, but supose we need to start somewhere.

 

[steve_sordy]

Aren't e-bikes already at the green(ish) end of the spectrum? At least its 50% me-powered (guess - no idea really).

Or should I be using an internal combustion engine powered bike (because I struggle with a 100% me-powered bike).

 

[Mikerb]

my point a bout balance was purely this. In Europe the industrial revolution on the one hand relied on mining coal copper tin and iron ore, it produced factories belching smoke ( real pollution as opposed to co2) children working in cotton mills and potteries and the scars of now mostly obsolete industry are there to be seen all over the countryside. On the other hand it is the reason why, what was largely a peasant population with subsistence living standards, huge childbirth mortality rates, non existant medical care, and short life spans, morphed into the mostly prosperous societies we now have. Yes it took time to introduce safety regulations, minimum working age and maximum hours, decent wages etc...but that all happened in time. There are now other countries involved in 1st and 2nd generation industrial production and they too will have to introduce all of those rules and processes but to deny them the opportunity denies them the opportunity to produce, in time ,better lives for their populations. So the balance is between jobs and eventual growing prosperity for those countries or denying them the opportunity to achieve what Europe achieved in the past to satisfy our ethical concerns. All of that leaves aside political ambition which certainly plays a part. For my money if I have a concern I first decide whether I can do anything about it.....if I can I do it. So if I had a concern about using an EMTB I would sell it. I don't so I'm keeping it.

 

[MitchF]

I don’t profess to be anywhere knowledgable on battery recycling, mineral mining or ecology. I only have a carbon footprint when I’m BBQ’ing.

But reading through , it’s just a little ironic as we all ride E-bikes.

 

[Rusty]

Personally, I am more concerned about the recycling of batteries in electric cars than with ebikes. Pretty much the same as I think about giving up my motor vehicle when tourists flying all over the world or taking cruises causes far more pollution in 1 day than I will produce in my lifetime using my vehicle in employment and leisure.

Before we get all politically correct and eco radical about lithium mining ....
Most of the worlds lithium production is in South America and is done by extracting from underground pools then concentrated with solar evaporation.
Whether there is pollution caused by this process I am uncertain, but talking to someone recently the extraction of gold using cyanide is thousands times worse.

 

[Pendo]

I've had three batteries replaces under warranty by Specialized, wonder what happens to all those dud batts?

 

[andytiedye]

I've had three batteries replaces under warranty by Specialized, wonder what happens to all those dud batts?

Hopefully they take them apart to see what went wrong with them. Then recycle.

 

[Macone]

I Ride my ebike, its fun!!!

 

[ggx]

So let the house burn down . No worries

 

[Rusty]

The extraction of lithium is more polluting than the disposal. If you have a problem don't buy an ebike - or anything else with lithium batteries.

 

[Macone]

geez some of you are more likely to die of the stress than anything else. go ride a bike for christs sake

 

[Fivetones]

There’s a lot to be positive about in this area. Firstly, generally, the switch away from carbon based fuels and then secondly the switch to an electric future.

The current battery technology is an issue (environmentally due to rare metals; and also power density and weight - who wouldn’t like an 18Kg eMTB?). There’s a huge amount of research going on in this area and I’m certainly not going to avoid relatively small lithium batteries in a bike!

And to answer the “just ignored it all” view: many people are concerned about the future of the planet, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to stress. I personally believe it motivates us to change and embracing new ideas. I find that exciting.

 

[ggx]

The extraction of lithium is more polluting than the disposal. If you have a problem don't buy an ebike - or anything else with lithium batteries.

That´s not the point. There are different methods . Less intrusive (more expensive) or the don´t give a damn methode (lets earn as much as possible) .
I want do use bikes / e-bikes /cars / eat stakes and sea fish etc etc. But I still want to know that companies have some sort of human conscience .