Should ebikes be 10 speed ?

[lharpel1]

So I have had my Trance for a few years now and replaced the whole drive chain twice. I change from 12 speed to 11 speed a full 12 option was crazy money when they only last 12months. Next time I am thinking that may be I will drop to a 10 speed as they are so much cheaper. Could be Zee or others.

It is about time that ebikes changed from coming with normal mtb 12speed ( or 11 speed) setups and go back to basics and have 10 speed setups that coast way less ?

Just putting out there for your thoughts

 

[steve_sordy]

I find zero problems with my 11-speed. I agree that 12-speed is going to far for emtbs (especially when you think about the extra cost). I might be happy with 10-speed as long as I got the same range (11-46t).
However, I did not like the 8-speed when I tried it, always seemed to be in the wrong gear. But that was before I actually bought an emtb, I might think differently if I tried it again.

 

[Gary]

To say all e bikes should be 10 speed would be extremely naive.
Gearing should be optimised to the riders needs and preference.and preferably within a sensible running cost budget for the individual.
OEM gearing is rarely optimal for me on any bike. I can't speak for anyone else. But I'd imagine many are happy with the gearing supplied on their bikes.
. Don't forget that many cyclists want the latest high end kit adorning their bikes even if it is not actually an improvement. Just look at any ASX/Di2 thread for evidence of this. Electronic shifting on a mtb offers less control adjustment and functionality not to mention added complexity and reduced durability at a massive premium. whereas IMO the benefits out weigh those downsides on roadbikes.

 

[Sidepod]

At the moment for most of my rides, 5 would do, at least then I could get a decent set of close ratios.

 

[Slimjim802]

I've only had my ebike just over a month and think about this every time i ride it. I really dont think i need 12 gears at all, dont think ive ever used the first two gears.

 

[p3eps]

I have 10/50 12 speed SRAM Eagle on my bike, and I use all 12 gears during most rides. Yes, I probably spend more time in 6-10 than any of the rest... however I have regular climbs that need 1st and 2nd gear, and fast downhill sections where another few ontop of 12 would be good!

I guess the Levo SL is maybe different, as I’m running it at 30%, so it’s only like I was a bit fitter, rather than cruising up the hills on a bike offering 400% assistance!

I wouldn’t fancy going up a 20% gradient with 30% assistance with a 10speed - unless it covers the same range. When my cassette wears out, I’ll be swapping it for the updated 10/52 to get even slacker!

 

[Gary]

The thing about most 20% gradient climbs is they tend not to be 20% the whole way.
And if it's a popular mtb route rather than some Ebike shortcut off the beaten path or a descent tackled backwards you can bet an ordinary fit dude on a normal bike will have done it.
To me a 52t sprocket is absolutely ridiculous on any bike.
Closer (1 tooth jump) ratios from 11-17t would be where I'd want those extra 2 sprockets a 12 speed cassette has and I'd prefer to stick with 36x36 as my lowest gear. But it's still not essential.

 

[Frankieboy]

8 speed for me (SRAM EX1). A little sceptical to start with and it deffo took some getting used to, but 2 years later I wouldn’t change a thing. Well perhaps I’d be happier if parts were cheaper. Yes, an extra gear, or 2, would be useful on occasion, but 90% of the time it’s all in need. The rest of the time I either peddle like a lunatic or really work the heart, lungs & thighs - both options = exercise.

That‘s my thoughts on this topic, for what their worth.

 

[p3eps]

The thing about most 20% gradient climbs is they tend not to be 20% the whole way.
And if it's a popular mtb route rather than some Ebike shortcut off the beaten path or a descent tackled backwards you can bet an ordinary fit dude on a normal bike will have done it.
To me a 52t sprocket is absolutely ridiculous on any bike.
Closer (1 tooth jump) ratios from 11-17t would be where I'd want those extra 2 sprockets a 12 speed cassette has and I'd prefer to stick with 36x36 as my lowest gear. But it's still not essential.

If you cycle round trails at Glen Tanar and Mount Keen (which I do frequently when not in lockdown!) there are sections of 10-20% gradient that can go on for prolonged periods. Feels like miles, but I’m sure it’s not really.

There’s one where I spend over 30mins climbing, to come down the other side... only to go back up another ludicrous climb straight after.

Personally, I need 12 gears. SRAM (and other manufacturers) must make them because there’s a demand for them. Again - maybe not necessary for most 400% powered ebikes, but useful for less powered or analogue bikes.

 

[steve_sordy]

...............To me a 52t sprocket is absolutely ridiculous on any bike.
Closer (1 tooth jump) ratios from 11-17t would be where I'd want those extra 2 sprockets a 12 speed cassette has and I'd prefer to stick with 36x36 as my lowest gear. But it's still not essential.

But as you quite correctly say Gary, "Gearing should be optimised to the riders needs and preference.and preferably within a sensible running cost budget for the individual."
We are not all as young(ish) and fit as you are. I envy your ability to push a 36x36. I just wish I was where I was only five years ago! I don't need a 52t on my emtb, but even with a 30t ring I sure as hell needed one on my mtb!

I had few problems with the 12-speed, on my mtb, but I was content to move to 11-speed on my emtb. I would not choose an emtb because it had 12-speed, nor would I pay extra to get it.

 

[Stretch40]

I'll agree I run 10 speed deore works great cassettes are cheap rear mech is £26 and another factor is 10 speed chains are stronger than 12 there thicker most the top ten ewse guys run 11 speed because of this I run 34t ring and 11-36 but going to Wales in June I'm swapping to a 32t ring our Yamaha motor doesn't like high cadence either so above a 42 rear sprocket your going very slow ? But we all need different things a bit like tyres we all like what we like ?

 

[Rosemount]

Yes 12 speed is definitely necessary .

 

[flash]

12 Speed on my eZesty and 10/11 on my full fats would be my ideal set up. With a 10 speed you could even have different cassettes available for different rider types/terrains.

Gordon

 

[1oldfart]

July 8 2020 i got a Stance with 36 front, 11-42 10S wich is fine.
No need for more. To justify higher prices they put stupid transmissions in my opinion.
Just look at the stupid prices on Trek, Specialized and others.
Some are just buying stickers for them 12 = modern and 10 = old.
I like proven, why is a reliable bike a bad thing?
My money goes for affordable and reliable.
My Giant is both, this is not my last Giant.
Please build me an Efat.

 

[DrStupid]

I agree- we will never agree on the correct gearing.

But, I guarantee somebodies making it!

 

[cole_inman]

I’ve ripped off 3 12 speed derailleurs in the past 6 months (2 on my Sight VLT, 1 on my analog) The 12 long cage speed derailleur is just too long for how I ride, which on the ebike is DH laps. I’ve got 2 full MicroShift drivetrains with medium cage derailleurs on the way. 11-48T so pretty much just as much range, but super cheap ($360 for both drivetrains), lighter than XT, and the cassette is all steel. I think 12 speed is probably worth it for gravel bikes that are 1x and XC bikes, but with my riding style the extra gear range just isn’t worth the finickiness and unreliability. I’ll report back once I have the MircoShift stuff!

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

My eMTB came with a 10-speed Shimano Deoro derailer and cassette 11-42T and after 2600 miles it was done. Now I have install 9-speed Microshift Advent derailuer and cassette 11-46T works great, can climb anything with the 46T. The Advent 9-speed is 1 1/3 of cost of any 10-speed, 11-speed or 12-speed offered out there. If I get 2000 miles out of the Advent 9-speed setup I will be happy with that, right now at 400 miles. If you are planning on racing your eMTB and you feel you need the extra gear, then invest in the 12-speed, but for trail riding with your friends 9-speed or 10-speed will work great.

 

[1oldfart]

My eMTB came with a 10-speed Shimano Deoro derailer and cassette 11-42T and after 2600 miles it was done. Now I have install 9-speed Microshift Advent derailuer and cassette 11-46T works great, can climb anything with the 46T. The Advent 9-speed is 1 1/3 of cost of any 10-speed, 11-speed or 12-speed offered out there. If I get 2000 miles out of the Advent 9-speed setup I will be happy with that, right now at 400 miles. If you are planning on racing your eMTB and you feel you need the extra gear, then invest in the 12-speed, but for trail riding with your friends 9-speed or 10-speed will work great.

Could you please give more details? I might go your way. Tire size? Front gear? ... Now i can simply not use my 11T and this makes me a nice 9S (36, 13-42 for 27x3.0)great for my riding but i ordered a new bike with too many speeds. Can you use 2 or 3 chains for each cassette?

 

[mak]

I could cope with an 11 speed if it had any advantage in gear change and cost. To be honest some of the range achieved on cassettes and chains on this forum has me puzzled, its either very bad gear changing or lack of maintenance .

I use all the gears apart from the lowest on a 12 cog set up. If I come across a ridiculous climb I fancy trying for a laugh in the biggest cog the bike either flips out or spins out of traction.

 

[Gary]

Microshift advent is in no way comparable in quality or function to Shimano Deore.

Comparing mileage with online strangers is also not a great way of measuring durability/wear.
Eg. I have well over 4500miles on my current 11-36 10speed deore cassette and cheap SRAM 10 speed chain (been used for roughly 10 rides of between 10-20 miles each per week) . But we probably don't ride in the same conditions, shift gears the same or maintain/clean/lube our drivetrains the same.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Could you please give more details? I might go your way. Tire size? Front gear? ... Now i can simply not use my 11T and this makes me a nice 9S (36, 13-42 for 27x3.0)great for my riding but i ordered a new bike with too many speeds. Can you use 2 or 3 chains for each cassette?

I am running 27.5+ 2.8" front and 2.6" rear, Shimano 34T chairing. On my old 10-speed I was using KMC x10 (Stretch Proof) chain and would replace every 1000 miles. On the 9-speed I am running a KMC x9 (Stretch Proof ) chain will replace at 1000 miles.
Here the spec on Advent items I and using:

Series	ADVENT
Model No.	CS-H093 11-46T
Speed	9-Speed
Gear Range	11-46T
Surface Finish	ED Black
Spider	No
Cassette Body	Standard Freehub
Combination	11-13-15-18-21-24-30-37-46
Cog Material	Steel

Series	ADVENT
Model No.	RD-M6195M
Compatibility	microSHIFT ADVENT Only
Speed	9-Speed
Cage Length	Medium Cage
Max. Sprocket	42-46T
Chain Capacity	41T
Clutch (Chain Stabilizer)	Yes
Attachment	Standard Mount
Outer Link Material	Aluminum
Cage Material	Steel

Series	ADVENT
Model No.	SL-M8195-R
Shifter Style	Flat Bar Xpress Trigger
Speed	9-Speed
Sealed Bearings	Yes
Compatibility	microSHIFT ADVENT Only
Gear Indicator	No
Operations	Index-Thumb
Bracket Material	Aluminum

 

[Shy Ted]

I’m waiting until 15 speed comes out then a new 12 speed cassette might be a reasonable price. ?

 

[Mini si]

I’m very tempted to go for a 10 speed cassette next time if I can.
To go from 12 to 10 is it the cassette (obviously) chain and shifter that needs to be changed? Mech too?

 

[cole_inman]

I’m very tempted to go for a 10 speed cassette next time if I can.
To go from 12 to 10 is it the cassette (obviously) chain and shifter that needs to be changed? Mech too?

That is correct. And if you are going 11 speed 11-46T you’ll likely want a smaller chainring too. The big advantage of the MicroShift Advent X is that it’s 11-48T so you’re close enough to the 51T climbing gear with the existing chain ring, along with the fact it’s super cheap for the whole setup.

 

[jonmat]

Ive had 2 10 speed ebikes and my new one is 12 speed, broke my first chain last week, never broke one on 10 speed.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

The benefit of the 9-speed and 10-speed drive-train, is durability and cost. eMTB's just wear out chains and cassettes even if you clean and lube your chain after every ride, which I do.

 

[1oldfart]

I think before changing a transmission we can just play and learn what we need.
Like i can block my derailleur from reaching my 11 teeth and use my 10 S as a 9 S.
That would set me up with 36 front 13-42 rear on a 27.5x3.0 rear tire.
I know my Yamaha can do it easily but not all systems offer a lot of power at low RPM.
If i get my new one in june(i read many delivery dates are pushed back) i will probably
limit the usable to 10S instead of 12 and learn how it does.

 

[DrStupid]

I’m very tempted to go for a 10 speed cassette next time if I can.
To go from 12 to 10 is it the cassette (obviously) chain and shifter that needs to be changed? Mech too?

The rear freehub driver can be a problem. There is,generally speaking, 3 kinds used on current model emtbs, and they are specific.

Whats your OEM spec driveline?

 

[Mini si]

The benefit of the 9-speed and 10-speed drive-train, is durability and cost. eMTB's just wear out chains and cassettes even if you clean and lube your chain after every ride, which I do.

Definitely my experience, very surprised to be on my second chain in the first 6 months of owning the bike!

The rear freehub driver can be a problem. There is,generally speaking, 3 kinds used on current model emtbs, and they are specific.

Whats your OEM spec driveline?

It’s SRAM 12 speed cassette on a Shimano hub. I’m not sure of the exact model or part numbers without looking. (My bike is a 2021 Cube Stereo HPC 160).

 

[DrStupid]

Definitely my experience, very surprised to be on my second chain in the first 6 months of owning the bike!

It’s SRAM 12 speed cassette on a Shimano hub. I’m not sure of the exact model or part numbers without looking. (My bike is a 2021 Cube Stereo HPC 160).

Should be fine. Cassette, shifter, derailleur, chain. I went directly from your setup, to mine-10 speed Shimano Zee mech with Xt shifter and deoro 11-42 cassette,‐ no trouble.