Shimano modes and motor set up

[R120]

List out how you set up your modes here, and also a place for discussion on 3rd party app modes you may have created! This thread is for discussing tuning the modes on your bike rather than any derestricting.

 

[lamomie]

eco: 40/70 trail: 70/70 boost: 120/70, my outings are on average 40km and 700d + at 15km / h on average and I have 50% of battery on average on arrival.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

ECO 65% 40Nm
TRAIL 100% 55Nm
BOOST 125% 70Nm
WEIGHT 238 lbs

Just began experimenting with tuning a couple of weeks ago. More interested in maximizing rains then excessive power.

 

[jonas]

On default settings I get 28km, 800-900m pretty consistently out of my 378Wh Focus.
Tuning assist and torque levels hasn't made much difference for me. No matter how I change the assist % , if I put in more power, the motor will put in more power aswell.

That's why i recently started tweaking the maximum power output levels per mode to hit a fixed power output limit. Meaning I can put in more power without draining the battery more, and getting a more constant assist support and thus more constant and predictable power draw.

I would like to see live power draw and live battery percentage during the ride. But until i can have those, I will probably have to leave power limits in place.

 

[Timochka69]

I am currently using the following e-tube app settings:
ECO high because I just was not using ECO when I had it set to low or medium
TRAIL high and this is my default riding mode when off road
BOOST low because I do not need the full power, maybe will return to my previous medium setting.

 

[iXi]

Eco medium
Trail medium
Boost high

I don't use boost much unless on super steep climbs and I'm knackered and just want to spin slowly and suck in the oxygen. I find medium in eco gives me a little more range. Medium for trail seems about right for me, I did try high for a little bit but I don't need that big kick when riding trails.

Range is anywhere from 50k - 80k, if plodding mainly in eco on the paths, fire roads with the Mrs 80ks is easily achievable but if out riding the trails by myself with plenty of trail mode 50ks give or take 5k would be Max

 

[RickBullotta]

I suspect a lot of people don't understand the difference between Trail and Boost modes. There's almost no reason not to have Trail mode set fairly high, since it dynamically adjusts assist and power based on pedal input. At least that's been my experience.

 

[lamomie]

I suspect a lot of people don't understand the difference between Trail and Boost modes. There's almost no reason not to have Trail mode set fairly high, since it dynamically adjusts assist and power based on pedal input. At least that's been my experience.

sorry, but I did not feel that at all, after several attempts, I returned to the classic use of trail mode

 

[OldGoatMTB]

I suspect a lot of people don't understand the difference between Trail and Boost modes. There's almost no reason not to have Trail mode set fairly high, since it dynamically adjusts assist and power based on pedal input. At least that's been my experience.

Don't they all adjust based on pedal input, but with different levels of assistance to facilitate battery management, and personal preferences?

 

[RickBullotta]

Don't they all adjust based on pedal input, but with different levels of assistance to facilitate battery management, and personal preferences?

I didn't think Boost mode did. I thought it was "all on" or "all off". Could be wrong, but that's the way it feels. Shimano makes a point of explaining that Trail mode is fundamentally different than Eco and Boost in the way it adjusts assist.

 

[jonas]

I suspect a lot of people don't understand the difference between Trail and Boost modes. There's almost no reason not to have Trail mode set fairly high, since it dynamically adjusts assist and power based on pedal input. At least that's been my experience.

But if assist is tied to pedal input, the battery drains faster the harder I pedal.
That's why I set my limits low. Pedaling harder with a lower limit, means I reach the limit sooner and put in more of my own power instead of using more battery.

 

[R120]

Yes trail mode is properly reactive, changing the level of assistance within it only changes the power levels the motor has access to IIRC

They are all reactive in a sense, in that the motor obviously reacts differently to different cadences and adjust power out put accordingly.

From my experience boost is actually at its best, if you are just pushing a relatively slow cadence up a step hill, i.e just hauling yourself up a hill - I find it a pig to ride trails in boost mode as the power delivery is just too on off for my liking.

I would say the opposite is true of eco, whereby it rewards a higher cadence, and in essence if you ride the bike in the way you would a normal MTB, i.e changing gear a lot and using the full cassette spread, adjusting your cadence etc, then it provides a lot more support than you might think. The motor doesn't compensate for being in the wrong gear, or peddling at an inappropriate cadence like it does in the higher mode.

 

[RickBullotta]

But if assist is tied to pedal input, the battery drains faster the harder I pedal.
That's why I set my limits low. Pedaling harder with a lower limit, means I reach the limit sooner and put in more of my own power instead of using more battery.

Yup. I was simply referring to the fact that maximum assist/torque is only one consideration in tuning a Shimano drive system - Trail and Boost (seem to) have fundamentally different ways in which they apply that assist.

 

[lamomie]

it works like that, except for the trail mode which would not be linear dixit shimano, I have doubts and the eco mode which is adjustable like the others

 

[RickBullotta]

it works like that, except for the trail mode which would not be linear dixit shimano, I have doubts

View attachment 31472

View attachment 31473

Yup. That's what I had seen and it matches real world observations.

 

[Maddin81]

Eco: 60% 30Nm 500W
Trail: 110% 70Nm 500W

I use Boost Mode 30/20 and set max Watts (Peak) to 300W.
So it is more a Super Eco Boost.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

it works like that, except for the trail mode which would not be linear dixit shimano, I have doubts and the eco mode which is adjustable like the others

View attachment 31472

View attachment 31473

I don't think there's anything funky about the way the power comes in, other than the fact that it doesn't seem to start until about 5 Nm or torque are detected. The graphs drop off because the users input increases after the motor has reached either the maximum output, or the maximum output setting for that mode. BTW, I really appreciate your sharing these charts, I really get into that type of info.

 

[RickBullotta]

I don't think there's anything funky about the way the power comes in, other than the fact that it doesn't seem to start until about 5 Nm or torque are detected. The graphs drop off because the users input increases after the motor has reached either the maximum output, or the maximum output setting for that mode. BTW, I really appreciate your sharing these charts, I really get into that type of info.

Well, there's clearly a fundamental difference between how Trail mode works vs Eco or Boost. The other two modes are quick step-up to a peak setting, whereas Trail mode is linear through the whole range. You can of course tweak the "peaks" on all modes, but the "curves" are quite different for Trail.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

I don't think you understand the graph. The graph isn't of how much torque the motor is putting out, it's how much assistance it's giving. If the rider is putting out 10 Nm then the motor can give you 30 Nm (300% assist), but if the rider is giving 30 Nm the motor cannot give 90 Nm, because the max output is below that. As the rider produces more torque the percent that STEPS give is less, which is why the curve goes down.

 

[Timochka69]

Well, there's clearly a fundamental difference between how Trail mode works vs Eco or Boost. The other two modes are quick step-up to a peak setting, whereas Trail mode is linear through the whole range. You can of course tweak the "peaks" on all modes, but the "curves" are quite different for Trail.

Not quite. In fact when set to HIGH, TRAIL reaches full torque when rider inputs 63.6 Nm, in LOW setting needed input is 100 Nm.

Well, there's clearly a fundamental difference between how Trail mode works vs Eco or Boost. The other two modes are quick step-up to a peak setting, whereas Trail mode is linear through the whole range. You can of course tweak the "peaks" on all modes, but the "curves" are quite different for Trail.

All modes seem to have pretty much linear ramp-up, just different values (ECO ramping up the slowest and BOOST very much faster). The max percentage of assist is different between different modes and can be adjusted. On TRAIL setting the curve seems to be linear all the way (on DYNAMIC setting), because Shimano decided to limit the chart to 100 Nm rider input value. Since 70 % assist and 70 Nm max torque of the motor are achieved at 100 Nm rider input, the assist curve will in this case be linear. This is of course only a (marketting material) representation of theoretical values, not from measured real values.

 

[papab]

• eco - medium. That works well for most of the time on most of my rides.
• trail - medium. This works for most climbs which are too hard for eco (or I'm feeling tired or lazy).
• boost - low. I find it hard to control on a technical climb if boost is on medium or high.

Bike: Commencal with E8000
According to the charts posted by Iamommie (pg 27 https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/sm/SM-SHIMANO_STEPS-002-ENG.pdf), the modes are all linear with a max. Boost hits a the max almost right away because the assist is so high. I wish they would update the document, we can adjust eco mode now, but they don't show that in the table.

 

[B1rdie]

I have been using the standard settings for a year and still getting used to the behaviour of the boost mode. Initially it seemed too much power on a hard to control delivery, but as I develop the skill of keeping balance and front/rear weight distribution while standing up at very low speeds, timing and powering the pedal strokes carefully, the steps motor makes me capable of climbing unbelievable steep filled with deep ruts, rocks and roots where even hikers have trouble going through.

 

[RickBullotta]

I have been using the standard settings for a year and still getting used to the behaviour of the boost mode. Initially it seemed too much power on a hard to control delivery, but as I develop the skill of keeping balance and front/rear weight distribution while standing up at very low speeds, timing and powering the pedal strokes carefully, the steps motor makes me capable of climbing unbelievable steep filled with deep ruts, rocks and roots where even hikers have trouble going through.

If you set "Trail" mode to max assist/torque using Stunlocker, you'll never need to use Boost, and you'll still have access to the maximum power of the motor, in a far more controlled way.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

If you set "Trail" mode to max assist/torque using Stunlocker, you'll never need to use Boost, and you'll still have access to the maximum power of the motor, in a far more controlled way.

Ok, It sounds as if there's more to differentiate Trail and Boost than just the amount of torque and assist. Can someone explain the difference, please? Use small words! ;-)

 

[RickBullotta]

Ok, It sounds as if there's more to differentiate Trail and Boost than just the amount of torque and assist. Can someone explain the difference, please? Use small words! ;-)

Look at the power curves above - basically Trail tries to modulate assist relatively close to linearly through the whole range (based on rider input), where as Eco and Boost ramp up quickly to a plateau (with Boost typically being set to a high power output and Eco to a lower plateau). Trail will feel less "abrupt" when getting on and off the power. Eco will also feel that way, but for different reasons, in that it won't spike like Boost will (feels more like a "normal" bike).

Ultimately, I base my assessment of how I wanted it tuned on how it "feels", and how it actually performs on the trail, not what the curves say. For that reason, I've gone with a more aggressive upper limit on Trail mode.

Whatever feels best for the way and what you ride is what's best for you!

Cheers.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Oh. I still think most people are interpreting the graph incorrectly, but we can all believe what we want to believe and be happy as we whir off into the woods!

 

[RickBullotta]

Oh. I still think most people are interpreting the graph incorrectly, but we can all believe what we want to believe and be happy as we whir off into the woods!

Ha. Perhaps. But my butt and my feet are more finely tuned sensors than any dyno test. It's like tuning suspension or carburetors - the theory is at best a starting point. The only thing that matters is performance on the trail! ;-)

 

[B1rdie]

If you set "Trail" mode to max assist/torque using Stunlocker, you'll never need to use Boost, and you'll still have access to the maximum power of the motor, in a far more controlled way.

But then it will consume batterie faster, I use like 30/60/10 of eco trail boost, using trail on flowing trails and keeping boost to the situations when keeping momentum is impossible and all the torque is needed to keep the wheel turning, and in these situations I like the different lag that boost has over trail mode.
I have considered changing support levels using stunlocker but have not consistently ridden the same trail enough to evaluate yet.

 

[urastus]

I suspect a lot of people don't understand the difference between Trail and Boost modes. There's almost no reason not to have Trail mode set fairly high, since it dynamically adjusts assist and power based on pedal input. At least that's been my experience.

Yes, although shimano themselves have a mode where trail is in low (dynamic mode). I imagine it is still dynamic up to whatever the level of assist is. If you leave it on high, it will be dynamic up to maximum; if set to low, it will be dynamic to whatever the upper limit of low is. Looking at the graph above, in dynamic profile, to me this looks like the ideal for trail mode. If you look at the chart that shows assist levels for the different modes, trail is set to low in the dynamic profile. In my custom profile I also have trail set to low. So there really is a difference in, and advantage depending on your riding style, to setting trail to low. For me, it's technical and steep climbing, as someone else already said, the sort of track that bush walkers often fall on their bums when coming down, or slip on going up, looking for footholds.

 

[CH61S]

I have had a play around with settings using the e tube app and for me the sweet spot it

Eco medium. Used most of the time. I like to put the work in peddling. Tried low but it felt like it was giving me no help whatsoever.

Trail medium. For the steeper inclines I find it's ample power.

Boost high. Rarely used only for the steepest of climbs or when my legs have totally give in.
I've got a motorbike for going fast so flying everywhere in boost isn't my thing.

I live in Wales so everything is either up steeps hill or down down them,rarely flat riding. battery life is amazing when you put the work in. E8000 500w