Set up - pins & needles in hands

[1oldfart]

Maybe you can prepare to cut your handlebar. Try moving your brakes levers
10mm inside on each side to see if you like it, maybe go for even shorter that
is like using a riser bar it lifts your head+shoulders, less weight on your hands.
I use 600mm and love it, i started at 740mm.

 

[steve_sordy]

.......
I use 600mm and love it, i started at 740mm.

I'm super glad that you are happy with your move; it shows how we are all different.

My first mtb was 600 and I noticed the difference when moving to 620mm. Now I'm at 770mm and I cannot imagine going back to 600mm. It would feel dangerous.

 

[p3eps]

Hope it works out for you.
I tried Ergon grips but I prefer standard round grips because I move hand positions a bit during ride depending on steepness, gnarly, etc of the trail I’m on. I think grip style is like many things, a matter of personal preference.

I prefer the round grips too - which is why the ‘wing’ ones are sitting in a drawer. The GE1 grips I’ve had for the last year or so are pretty much round.

 

[p3eps]

So basically the only time your hands are in pain is when descending & you’re squeezing the bars too tightly aka death grip. Relaxing is hardest thing to do same with any sport we all tense up! But brakes at higher angle will help

I seem to get pins and needles after some time in the saddle, and sore wrists / hands when descending and probably gripping hard. All was fine until I put the saddle up!

 

[p3eps]

"Handlebar Palsy" from too much weight on your hands injuring your ulnar nerve. Try raising your bars, and consider bars with more back sweep as the angle helps a lot as well.

What Is Ulnar Nerve Injury?

The ulnar nerve is one of the major nerves of the upper extremity. Injury to the ulnar nerve, known as lesions, can cause symptoms of weakness, tingling, and numbness.

www.verywellhealth.com

Cheers.

Very interesting… thanks. I think I’ll stick my Stumpy’s riser bars on for my next ride. I think my current ones have a 10mm rise, and those are about 30mm rise - which would almost cover the inch my saddle has gone up.

 

[p3eps]

Maybe you can prepare to cut your handlebar. Try moving your brakes levers
10mm inside on each side to see if you like it, maybe go for even shorter that
is like using a riser bar it lifts your head+shoulders, less weight on your hands.
I use 600mm and love it, i started at 740mm.

I can see how that would work… but I imagine at the expense of some stability if making the bars too narrow?

 

[p3eps]

I'm super glad that you are happy with your move; it shows how we are all different.

My first mtb was 600 and I noticed the difference when moving to 620mm. Now I'm at 770mm and I cannot imagine going back to 600mm. It would feel dangerous.

I think I’m at 760mm, but I don’t think I’d like to remove any more! Like you say… everyone is different.

EDIT - I measured across the bars end to end with a tape measure last night, and it was 770mm. I guess with the back sweep they’d 780mm.

 

[Downhillr]

I can see how that would work… but I imagine at the expense of some stability if making the bars too narrow?

Yeah thats true about control, I remember about 30 years ago the hardtail cross-country bikes were running narrow bars but bikes and the trails we ride have changed. I can’t imagine taking s narrow bar down some of today’s steep, gnarly trails and giving up the leverage of a wider bar, same reason forks have become much stiffer laterally to overcome the torque of rough, rutted trails throwing bike offline. All of this being said, you need to consider rider size (wider shoulder, longer arm etc..) and preference in setting up your cockpit.

 

[Julie_X1]

Grips like the Ergon GA3, (more compliant) carbon handlebars and adjusting the brake levers all helped and together solved my hand problems… until I raised the seat on one of my bikes and now I get pins and needles.

Only on that bike. It’s got the lowest rise handlebar of my bikes.

I’m pretty sure I’ll have to raise the height of that handlebar now.

 

[p3eps]

Grips like the Ergon GA3, (more compliant) carbon handlebars and adjusting the brake levers all helped and together solved my hand problems… until I raised the seat on one of my bikes and now I get pins and needles.

Only on that bike. It’s got the lowest rise handlebar of my bikes.

I’m pretty sure I’ll have to raise the height of that handlebar now.

I'm thinking the riser bar is the way to go. Will test the one on my Stumpy, then get a new one if it works out.
I'd expect 30mm to be enough over my current 10mm - as my saddle has gone up about an inch.

 

[Downhillr]

I'm thinking the riser bar is the way to go. Will test the one on my Stumpy, then get a new one if it works out.
I'd expect 30mm to be enough over my current 10mm - as my saddle has gone up about an inch.

Just a suggestion, if you do need a new bar I recommend the OnUp carbon e-bar. I’ve ridden my factory stock Santa Cruz carbon bar, Renthal carbon bar, Easton carbon bar and the OneUp is best at handling trail chatter while being easy on hands and DH rated.
(BTW, I use same bar on my analog (non-ebike) and have friends doing the same so the bar is universal)…

OneUp Components Carbon E-Bar - Carbon Handlebars

E-Bikes let you ride further for longer. But they’re also heavier and more physically demanding to ride. That makes reducing fatigue important. Our Carbon E-Bar is 20% more compliant than other brand's carbon handlebars and it’s equipped with integrated ports for E-Bike controls. Save on the bar...

www.oneupcomponents.com

 

[steve_sordy]

Grips like the Ergon GA3, (more compliant) carbon handlebars and adjusting the brake levers all helped and together solved my hand problems… until I raised the seat on one of my bikes and now I get pins and needles.

.....................

By raising the saddle, you have changed the angle of your hands to the grips. Try adjusting the angle of the grips so that your hands go back to the same angle they used to be.

 

[p3eps]

I removed my current bar (Enve DH) to realise it has a set of numbers on the back of where it grips!
Sweep: 9°
Rise: 23mm
Tip: 5°

I guess realistically I need to try a 40mm rise or higher... but all the 40mm bars seem to have a 35mm clamp rather than 31.8mm.
If it's a stem and a bar, then it starts becoming expensive!!

 

[JimmyBoy]

As I said an SQlabs swept back bar which has a 31.8 dia and a RISE IN MM15 / 30 /45, WIDTH(S) IN MM780.

The Ergon GA3 winged pair of grips are not as bulky as some.

 

[p3eps]

As I said an SQlabs swept back bar which has a 31.8 dia and a RISE IN MM15 / 30 /45, WIDTH(S) IN MM780.
View attachment 120103
The Ergon GA3 winged pair of grips are not as bulky as some.
View attachment 120102

I've got similar Ergon grips at home, but never really got on with them. I prefer the round ones...
The bar looks interesting... I can see how that would help.
Even with the 45mm rise, it doesn't look as much - probably because of the angle of the bars?

A bit of a gamble paying €280 and finding that it doesn't work (for me) though!
I wonder if there are second hand ones or somewhere I can try it?

 

[JimmyBoy]

These articles are interesting.
Hand Pressure
Hand Pain

 

[p3eps]

I've read several reviews on that bar now, and every single one is positive. They all start off saying how it looks odd and felt weird, but within a short time they wondered how they ever rode without it!

I reckon the 45mm rise 12° sweep would be the one for me. If it felt too high, then I could always remove a spacer or 2 from my headset to lower it.

SQ offer 30 day trials on a lot of their products - but not bars.... plus they don't ship to the UK anyway.

The next task is to try and find a 30X 12° 45mm in stock... but it's proving tricky!

 

[p3eps]

These articles are interesting.
Hand Pressure
Hand Pain

I was reading the hand pain one on the SQ Lab website earlier. I'm sure the right combination of parts will solve my issue... but it's difficult to diagnose exactly what's required when you don't have a local supplier that you can test them out. It's unlikely sitting in a shop on the bike is going to help anyway. It's not until you've been on the trail for an hour+ that it'd be obvious!

 

[JimmyBoy]

I could always remove a spacer or 2

Exactly what I thought.

 

[Pdoz]

P3eps, if fitting your stumpy bars doesn't help, can I suggest you try sliding the seat FORWARD , not back as you described earlier?

Could you also think about exactly what parts of your thumb are tingling ( different nerves +/- dermatomes so it changes our possibilities)

My bet - When you raised the seat post you moved the seat rearward, the extra stretch is either causing neck or cervical outlet issues . Everyone focusses on wrists , the human body isn't that simple

 

[p3eps]

P3eps, if fitting your stumpy bars doesn't help, can I suggest you try sliding the seat FORWARD , not back as you described earlier?

Could you also think about exactly what parts of your thumb are tingling ( different nerves +/- dermatomes so it changes our possibilities)

My bet - When you raised the seat post you moved the seat rearward, the extra stretch is either causing neck or cervical outlet issues . Everyone focusses on wrists , the human body isn't that simple

I moved the seat back as it gave me the most comfortable position for my legs pedalling. The seat has gone up 1", and the seat tube angle is 75.8°, so I imagine the movement on the saddle position has only moved a few mm's?
Worth a try though - again, an easy adjustment.

I have ordered a set of SQ Labs bars to try too... but a week delivery means they'll arrive when I'm on holiday - so I won't get to try them for about 3 weeks!

 

[Rocketb]

I removed my current bar (Enve DH) to realise it has a set of numbers on the back of where it grips!
Sweep: 9°
Rise: 23mm
Tip: 5°

I guess realistically I need to try a 40mm rise or higher... but all the 40mm bars seem to have a 35mm clamp rather than 31.8mm.
If it's a stem and a bar, then it starts becoming expensive!!

Try a renthal alloy fatbar 31.8mm 40 mm rise. That’s what I now use and it’s great.

 

[p3eps]

Try a renthal alloy fatbar 31.8mm 40 mm rise. That’s what I now use and it’s great.

SQ Labs X30 already ordered, so will see how that works out.

 

[Pdoz]

I moved the seat back as it gave me the most comfortable position for my legs pedalling. The seat has gone up 1", and the seat tube angle is 75.8°, so I imagine the movement on the saddle position has only moved a few mm's?
Worth a try though - again, an easy adjustment.

I have ordered a set of SQ Labs bars to try too... but a week delivery means they'll arrive when I'm on holiday - so I won't get to try them for about 3 weeks!

Imagine the shopping bill if we had to buy new parts for every time we adjust something on our bikes! I wonder if this is because of the amount of psuedo scientific ergonomic "education " we are reading in the advertising " tutorials"

So far, an inch higher on the seat post has resulted in:

New bars - the jury is out on rise / sweep / width , , but new bars are definitely winning -

New stem - longer , shorter, or more angled.

Grips it is - ergon seem to advertise the best....


My approach is returning to the original position, slowly increasing seat height again and trying one adjustment at a time to find a compromise. I'd challenge the desire to obtain the same pedaling position on a emtb vs memtb . Personally, I run the seat slightly lower on the E - that keeps me seated for marginal technical stuff, which seems to be possible with more assistance .

Then start the shopping spree - more comfortable seat because you are riding further, A full face helmet with a different peak - which changes neck position so different bars, grips, gloves. Then ride further and change the hydration pack - start again on bars / grips / gloves....did we mention rearsuspension? Nothing fixes the ergonomics like a new rear shock

 

[skinnyboy]

Funny old picture for sure, but the human body hasn't changed much since the 70's. Mert Lawill had a little experience setting up two wheelers.

Maybe I'm trying to justify the stack of handlebars sitting on my shelf, but it seems like a small outlay to make an expensive bike potentially more comfortable/usable/fun.

Cheers.

 

[p3eps]

First ride with the SQ Labs X30’s today. I went for the 12deg back sweep 45mm rise.

Got the kids to bed, and went out at about 8.20pm. Only managed an hour / 11 miles / 800ft due to the lack of light… but my initial thoughts are very positive.

I had no pain or pins and needles on that ride, and felt I was able to hold the bar on the bumpy trails with less ‘gripping’ than previously. They don’t look nearly as wacky as I was expecting - and to be honest, the 45mm rise doesn’t look significantly more than the 23mm on my previous ENVE bars. I believe the ENVE bars are really stiff, so perhaps that’s something that wasn’t in their favour either?

Hoping to get out for a 20 mile / 2+ hour ride over the weekend to give them a real test, but after today I’m hopeful it’ll be £200 well spent

 

[Pdoz]

View attachment 121831

Much is explained -. All those blue bits were a sign - you were Subliminally aware the problem was circulation , not nerves. And the slightly higher head stem cover suggests you KNEW it was cervical outlet syndrome

Easy fix - buy red bits.

 

[p3eps]

Much is explained -. All those blue bits were a sign - you were Subliminally aware the problem was circulation , not nerves. And the slightly higher head stem cover suggests you KNEW it was cervical outlet syndrome

Easy fix - buy red bits.

The slightly raised stem cover is only because that’s what came with the Wolftooth headset. It’s such a bad colour match with the bottom part of their headset, that I’ve ordered an i9 one (and some spacers) to try and get everything the same colour.

Never thought about the blue / red thing. I’m a Raynaud’s Syndrome sufferer… so I’ll have to look at some red bits for winter when I have perpetually cold hands!!

Might be an expensive project though… especially since I got these

 

[p3eps]

Another update - just back from a 20 mile / 3500ft / 2 hour and half hour ride.
No pain or pins and needles on that either. A couple of miles worth of ‘death gripping’, but the bars seem to be making all the difference.

 

[Nickolp1974]

interesting video on this subject