Real life logistics of riding using two batteries and one Emtb?

[Kernow]

Spare battery ? , I bought one same Time as my bike . Yes it’s great to ride all day when you can return to the car .
Carrying on my back , I tried but it’s just too heavy to enjoy the ride when you combine the other bits plus water you need to carry for an all day ride .
I’ve been pestering a local guy who makes mtb strap on to invent a strap and pad that would allow the battery to strap to the top tube ,like a larger version of the Dakine strap pouch for tubes etc it’s sits there ok on the commencal and would be ok on a long ride if you weren’t trying to do tougher trails . Probably work on most bikes with a sloping low top tube .

 

[Zimmerframe]

Two options I see. Back pack which I do. Evoc one or change your e-mtb to one that has a 750 watt battery.

Alas, it's not so simple. He doesn't want to carry a backpack and has a second shimano battery coming as he's ordered an e-sentier in custom one off irn-bru colours - so wishes to use this battery rather than buy a third bike ...

 

[Gary]

Hi

Two options I see. Back pack which I do. Evoc one or change your e-mtb to one that has a 750 watt battery.

Thanks.
Neither of those options will be chosen though as eloquently explained by Mr Zimmer above

 

[OlaGB]

Thanks Karsten

Riding with any backpack at all more than bothers me. it's not even just about the weight. I just can't stand them and would honestly rather not ride at all than carry one.

I understand you have been riding for many years, and know what you talk about based on your own experience..
But i really dont understand your hate against backpacks. Have you been using the wrong type or size of backpack?

I ride with a well adjusted Evoc FR enduro all the time, never without it. Small guy, 5ft9 72kg, and always carry some tools, a hose, an extra t-shirt and 1,5-2 liter of water in the camelback. And battery ofcourse on the long run.
I do notice it`s there, but thats it. Never have i felt its in my way, holding me back or anything like that. It sits tight to my back, even in very hard conditions.
Having a built in backprotector is also something i really appreciate.

An alternative could be ultrarunning hydration vests. Like the salomon advance skin which i use when running in the mountains. But say goodbye to youre back if you crash with a battery in it
A back protector is mandatory in a bike backpack for me.

 

[Gary]

I understand you have been riding for many years, and know what you talk about based on your own experience..
But i really dont understand your hate against backpacks. Have you been using the wrong type or size of backpack?

I'm not really sure why you'd have to understand. Can't you just accept we're not all the same?

But OK. if it helps...

I find ALL backpacks:

Uncomfortable - (granted some are worse than others.)I have used some of the best (incl EVOC) while working as a coach/guide and still can't say I ever enjoyed the experience.

Heavy. - and all the extra weight is high up. this makes a huge difference. to your bike's performance (suspension, braking and handling) and also to how dynamic a rider can be when riding.

Hot/sweaty - surely this is self explanitory. But being too hot means you sweat more and require more water/food on a ride. I can generally ride without a pack solidly for 3 hours with no water/food. with one I'd be drinking tons and need to re-fuel too.

Restrictive - not only when riding but also when bailing from a crash. Ninja's don't wear 15l rucksacks do they? for good reason

Tiring - see the last three points.

They ALL "look" shit. Yes. I'm a vain poseur. I'm an ex DH racer of course I care about how I look on a bike.

But above all else. I don't actually need a back pack at all on any ride ever except when working guiding/coaching (where it's mandatory)
When riding in my own time I carry minimal spares, tools and minimal water/food
2x superlight tubes, 4x Co2 and head, multitool, puncture/patch kit/zipties in a little Dakine hotlaps gripper frame bag fitted on the bike. (All of this wouldn't fill a 500ml pack nevermind a huge backpack). I'm also a professional bike mechanic/guide/first aider so pretty confident in the condition of my bikes and pretty confident I don't need most of the shit loads of folk think they need to carry on every mtb ride.
Waterbottle and emergency snack I carry on a waist holder (the type runners use). Phone/keys/cash in pocket.

I rarely even wear a helmet, NEVER wear gloves. Only ever wear any sort of body armour/knee pads if riding DH uplifted. and it'sjust knee pads even then. Don't ever wear a jacket - I'm well known for this. (just dress for the conditions.. usually underdressed compared to 99% of other riders). I just don't get cold. Part reptile possibly

hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from somewhat

 

[Ginsterdrz]

The EVOC and Ergon specific e packs are nice but the prices aren't!
Someone needs to steal a march?
A specific bumbag design would would be good.

 

[Gary]

The EVOC and Ergon specific e packs are nice

I think You mean slightly less awful (for me)

The E stands for

XP£N$IV

A specific bumbag design would would be good.

3kg+ weight strapped round your waist with a solid hard object placed squarely over your lower spine?
er... nah.. yer awright mate. thanks

 

[mark.ai]

Ok here's a suggestion no one has made yet: try attaching it to the handle bars? No idea how badly this will affect handling as I've never tried it. Could test with some gaffer tape.

Or buy something like this: https://rockgeist.com/product/barjam/. They claim that "The Barjam is a bikepacking harness designed to excel on the most technical singletrack descents. The mission behind the Barjam is to have your bikepacking rig ride like it does without the gear. Focus on ripping your descent, not on keeping your bags attached to your bike." But having 3kg on the bars must make some difference

 

[Zimmerframe]

To summarise where were at so far :

You don't want a backpack for several reasons - so that's off the list.

You presumably don't really want it attached to the bike as you'll either be raising the COG or it will be getting in the way, I think Steve proposed a strap on ....

You don't seem to want your own personal drone swarm.

You're not interested in a trailer.

No one seems to make a battery suitable sporran, and you probably don't want ANOTHER 3kg's floating around down there ....

So, it looks like the Mule option is the way forward ?

You'll need volunteers to ride the e-sentier with the battery off whilst you ride with the battery on. When it's flat, you swap batteries.

Volunteers should be easy to come by if you advertise correctly, go old school, maybe a double page advert in a mainstream newspaper.

As a starting point you'll need a good slogan/course name something like :

Fitness Understanding Composure Knowledge Educational Development by Gary.

 

[Gary]

MR Zimmer nails it!

Move along! No moar to see here folks!

 

[Gary]

Ok here's a suggestion no one has made yet: try attaching it to the handle bars? No idea how badly this will affect handling as I've never tried it. Could test with some gaffer tape.

Or buy something like this: Barjam Bikepacking Harness | Rockgeist Bikepack USA. They claim that "The Barjam is a bikepacking harness designed to excel on the most technical singletrack descents. The mission behind the Barjam is to have your bikepacking rig ride like it does without the gear. Focus on ripping your descent, not on keeping your bags attached to your bike." But having 3kg on the bars must make some difference

View attachment 15619

Pretty good option for carrying a helmet on climbs
but a battery on descents... er... no.

The main issue with carrying the battery ON the bike is that it'd need to be carried UPHILL.
meaning even if I stash it somewhere it's going to have to go back ON THE BIKE to descend again at some point. Despite the jokey pic I posted earlier, any location other than under the downtube is going to be horrendous for bike handling while descending.
The other issue is it'd need a fuck off secure mounting there and some protection too.

 

[R120]

Hmm - I have an idea for the hardtail, I might try this on mine, space permitting.

You could strap it to the seat tube, similar to the way BMC install the batteries on their Alpen challenge E-Bikes.

I have ridden one of these, and the weight placement there actually works really well.

On my hardtail I have installed a fidlock unbiase to the seat tube for when I want to carry a water bottle, I have attached it with industrial zip ties rather than the rubber straps it comes with.

Fidlock also make this:

Fidlock Bike - Products

Which enables you to connect anything to the uniase. Now the battery might be a bit heavy for the system, but it might work.

 

[Gary]

A Shimano battery actually fits in an old lightweight 2l camelbak backpack (bladder removed) I have but never wear. (I checked this ages ago)
This could actually be an option for carrying the battery somewhere to stash for later if I somehow pad out the back of the camelbak (I also have old DH back protectors I could possibly canibalise for this).
But it would still mean doing repeatable loops so I'd only have to carry the thing on one long climb at the beginning and one descent (probably about 8-900ft) at the end

 

[Gary]

Hmm - I have an idea for the hardtail, I might try this on mine, space permitting.

View attachment 15621

Thanks @R120

your idea does sound fairly feasable for longer hardtail (urban/gravel/bridleway etc. type) rides.
I'd probably add strapping round the seat tube and battery for extra security though.


I'm actually going to be mounting a side entry waterbottle there on the hardtail using the zefal gizmo waterbottle mounts. It'll probably have a tool case in it more often than water though.
The hardtail purchase was primarily for a 20 - 38 mile commuting (depending on whether I feel like park and riding or smashing the whole route and I'm going to leave the charger (I'll have 3) at work so even if I decided to BOOST all the way there and back I'm never going to need extra range on that bike.

As it's primarily going to be ridden on roads/paths I'm also fitting 2.0 schwalbe Big Ben tyres on it. and I've too many other bikes to realistically ever be bother changing tyres to proper off road treads.

They'll be fine for trail centre and local off road use though.
I already ride my 4X hardtail with 2.2 DMR MOTO RTs @55psi at GT/Inners on the more armoured/hardpack trails with no issues. it can get a bit sketch in the wet but I kinda like a certain quota of sketch in my rides.

 

[MattyB]

To summarise where were at so far :

You don't want a backpack for several reasons - so that's off the list.

You presumably don't really want it attached to the bike as you'll either be raising the COG or it will be getting in the way, I think Steve proposed a strap on ....

You don't seem to want your own personal drone swarm.

You're not interested in a trailer.

No one seems to make a battery suitable sporran, and you probably don't want ANOTHER 3kg's floating around down there ....

So, it looks like the Mule option is the way forward ?

Yep - seems like Gary has as many red lines on this topic as Theresa May does on Br**it...

 

[Gary]

I just dislike backpacks and have many entirely valid reasons.

Theresa May and all her twatty friends dislike entire fucking Nations and Cultures with not one solid sensible reason.

[Thx Dom x]

 

[Doomanic]

Theresa May and all her twatty friends dislike entire fucking Nations and Cultures with not one solid sensible reason other than dumb "British" pride.

Too many words in that sentence.

 

[OlaGB]

Let`s face it, youre just stubborn Gary. Deal with it princess

Haha, nothing wrong with youre opinions Gary, i was just curious why so negative on backpacks, and got a proper answer. Its the wrong answer ofcourse, but that`s how it is

 

[Gary]

No Ola. My answers were actually correct... it makes no difference that they differ from yours

I'm in a helpful sort of mood today.... So let me help you out again...

and incase you're still struggling here's a helpful comparison chart for you to use ...

Although generally factual I don't actually care whether what I say is fact or opinion. That's the beauty of free speach.

Enjoy your sweaty back, dead sailors and poor cornering ability while also being correct.

Feels good to be right. doesn't it?

erm...

 

[Avyoung]

My next eMTB will hopefully reduce the 2 battery conundrum: big 700wh (or bigger) internal battery with a 500wh external option perhaps? I know this was mentioned earlier in the thread but as a 2x500wh shimano user I have to say this really seems attractive to me! Come on shimano! 500wh is not enough!!!

Simplon Rapcon Pmax: Versatile performance eMTB announced | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[Gary]

or two E Sommet VRs for less money than the base model Simplon?

Hmmm... Yeah. tricky decision

 

[Swissrob]

MR Zimmer nails it!

Move along! No moar to see here folks!

Are you lying about your age? You could be a millennium...?

 

[Swissrob]

It is threads like this that actually provoke thought and development! There is nothing available that meets the criteria. I could see a 3d printed mount with a lock to the battery so it would mean destroying the battery to get the mount off. Stashed in the forrest with GPS tracking device. A couple of half moon brackets and Velcro to hold it on to get it up the hill. Still needs route planning for change over but a maybe solution.

It really highlights the non existent security of ebikes and batteries, when I can buy a phone for 50 whatevers, hit a pin code and it's useless to anyone else but can't do it with a 10k Emtb I really wonder about some of the thought process of designers. It's not like it's fucking rocket science nowadays, like Gary I want to leave my shit every where and know it's safe and even a dumbass thief knows it is worthless without a code.

 

[Pdoz]

Thought provoking, frkn rocket science, and stashing batteries ....

Sit on it?

I'll leave it to you to decide if ypu go full she man ooh dragstar style, or stealth bumber., who am I to critique your orientation? But perhaps there could be a role for 3d printed brackets to mount spare batteries to the dropper post or frame? Either as mudguards or seat extensions ?

Brings a whole new meaning to being called a cheater

 

[Zimmerframe]

The main issue with carrying the battery ON the bike is that it'd need to be carried UPHILL.
meaning even if I stash it somewhere it's going to have to go back ON THE BIKE to descend again at some point

You just can't see the bright side in any of this can you ? .. When you put it back on the bike to go home, presumably it's empty ? So that means it's approximately 0.000000002109 grams lighter than when it's full ! You'll hardly know it's there. By the time you get back your main battery will be almost flat so there's another 0.000000002 grams saved there !

Polycell a couple of hooks on your downtube, buy a nice custom painted thok battery cover from @Etch1 and a rubber band from Thok to go with it and to hold it in place and viola, sorted !

 

[andytiedye]

Has anyone mounted a rear rack to solve this problem?

 

[Gary]

Lol

That's not solving a problem. It's creating one.

Fwiw I still haven't needed to use 2 batteries

 

[andytiedye]

I am considering sullying my bike with a rear rack because there is no way to carry anything at all on it, not even a water bottle. Water and battery in the same backpack... what could possibly go wrong?

Besides that, water, tools, spare battery all in a backpack is gonna make a heavy backpack.

 

[Frank_Denmark]

@TrailwattsUK already made a nice solution - and cheaper than an OEM battery.
I have used this for 3 month - Works excellent
On shorter rides I just leave it at home or in my car.
Solutions

 

[1oldfart]

Being retired i moved close to the trails. Like you i have no interest in carrying an extra.
I just do a morning ride, charge at home while i eat and do a second ride.
Maybe i could get a 625 but now my 500Wh keeps me happy.