Radon pulling out of UK market?

[Doomanic]

What, like tarmacing?

 

[Waynemarlow]

Keep it to the Radon bikes and ask yourself just how much of the components on that bike and how much of its construction is actually made in Germany, which is a high labour and high cost manufacturing country, and how much of it is made in low cost countries and then labelled as a German brand.

Look at your leader Rob with his Dengfu frame and Bafung engine, I've had my E10 since August and the quality of the frame is quite stunning in comparison to some other brands and yet it was significantly cheaper than an equivalent German branded frame, even with its duties.

 

[Jackware]

Yep, those low cost countries where workers have lower wages and fewer rights but hey cheap bikes, win. Let's hope we can drop those inconvenient EU safety standards as well, another win.

 

[Mikerb]

The latest figures I can find suggest the UK market for bikes is c 17% of the EU total, and the primary countries of origin for non electric bikes do not include any EU members, primary countries of origin for E bikes are Taiwan, HK, China and Germany in that order. So if the European market is considered valuable to bike suppliers, the UK represents a significant % of the market opportunity, and if price increases in the UK depress demand, those suppliers will see a reduction in turnover and/or have to find other markets.
As I said before, where these bikes originate determine what % of the price of a bike consists of trade tariffs and VAT. Where the brands choose to distribute from in order to import to the UK determines now and post Brexit what tariffs apply. Their obvious ( and for most the easiest) way to avoid additional tariffs is to export to the UK from a territory that has a trade deal with the UK on better terms than WTO. iant, for example, could do that quite easily given their existing spread of distribution centres. Of course there will be a period of transition but brands that value the UK market will do what all businesses do constantly and that is adapt to change. Overall the UK is the 6th largest economy in the World and therefore an important target for all foreign exporters.
In addition to that, and possibly most especially in the Ebike market, Brexit will almost certainly provide opportunities for the further development of UK bike manufacturing.
I am old enough to remember when we were not tied to the EU.........amazingly the sky stayed exactly where it is today!!

 

[Mikerb]

Yep, those low cost countries where workers have lower wages and fewer rights but hey cheap bikes, win. Let's hope we can drop those inconvenient EU safety standards as well, another win.

oh..you mean like safety standards for domestic wiring in much of France Spain Italy et al..............and drinking water?

 

[R120]

The problem is not the concept of Brexit, I have no doubt if done competently by people who knew what they where doing then it could be a world of opportunity, but with the people in charge of it now, no chance.

There is a big difference between and opportunity, and having the ability to take it.

I didn't vote for Brexit, but in my industry I could see that if the government put in place decent training and apprentice schemes then it could be an opportunity to invest in the youth and revitalise the British skills base - has they done that or even looked into to doing it - no. They could look at incentivising the manufacturing side of things, have they done that? No.

The issue is quite simply that a well managed exit of the EU would not have meant any of the issues we are now seeing, you can look at all the possible upsides of leaving the EU, but unless the people ion charge are competent enough to realise them then you are just going to have a mess.

 

[aarfeldt]

........and drinking water?

Ha....drinking water ?
We have Carlsberg

 

[Jackware]

The latest figures I can find suggest the UK market for bikes is c 17% of the EU total, and the primary countries of origin for non electric bikes do not include any EU members, primary countries of origin for E bikes are Taiwan, HK, China and Germany in that order. So if the European market is considered valuable to bike suppliers, the UK represents a significant % of the market opportunity, and if price increases in the UK depress demand, those suppliers will see a reduction in turnover and/or have to find other markets.
As I said before, where these bikes originate determine what % of the price of a bike consists of trade tariffs and VAT. Where the brands choose to distribute from in order to import to the UK determines now and post Brexit what tariffs apply. Their obvious ( and for most the easiest) way to avoid additional tariffs is to export to the UK from a territory that has a trade deal with the UK on better terms than WTO. iant, for example, could do that quite easily given their existing spread of distribution centres. Of course there will be a period of transition but brands that value the UK market will do what all businesses do constantly and that is adapt to change. Overall the UK is the 6th largest economy in the World and therefore an important target for all foreign exporters.
In addition to that, and possibly most especially in the Ebike market, Brexit will almost certainly provide opportunities for the further development of UK bike manufacturing.
I am old enough to remember when we were not tied to the EU.........amazingly the sky stayed exactly where it is today!!

So which countries have we made a trade agreement with that is better than a EU based existing trade deal that we already held?
And yes the sky is still there but thanks to EU regs it's a lot cleaner.
But we're never going to agree about this so let's get back to bikes wherever they're made.

 

[Gary]

Keep it to the Radon bikes and ask yourself just how much of the components on that bike and how much of its construction is actually made in...

Let's not.

The answer is the same for pretty much all European (and UK) bike manufacturers.
The fact tat most affordable bike frames/parts/components and accessories are mainly made in the far east is should not really surprise anyone

I find it odd for Radon to pull out of the UK considering how many UK riders they support.

 

[Jackware]

oh..you mean like safety standards for domestic wiring in much of France Spain Italy et al..............and drinking water?

Er, no, safety standards that stop third countries exporting dangerous goods to us.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yep, those low cost countries where workers have lower wages and fewer rights but hey cheap bikes, win. Let's hope we can drop those inconvenient EU safety standards as well, another win.

I think even you must have travelled Europe and discovered the joys of just how high the UK's standards in most things are in comparison to large parts of Europe. Why would the Brits accept anything other ?

But keep the focus on EBikes, we know they are predominantly made in the far East and imported as semi built bikes. So how are the standards going to change, the manufacturers are not going to make sub standard bikes just for the UK, the brand would be destroyed in a matter of months such is the internets power of having no boundaries much like Covid.

 

[Mikerb]

Keep it to the Radon bikes and ask yourself just how much of the components on that bike and how much of its construction is actually made in Germany, which is a high labour and high cost manufacturing country, and how much of it is made in low cost countries and then labelled as a German brand.

Look at your leader Rob with his Dengfu frame and Bafung engine, I've had my E10 since August and the quality of the frame is quite stunning in comparison to some other brands and yet it was significantly cheaper than an equivalent German branded frame, even with its duties.

the majority of brands we buy from are frame designers, specifiers, and part assemblers. Frames are made in Taiwan or China, many components come from the Far East.

The problem is not the concept of Brexit, I have no doubt if done competently by people who knew what they where doing then it could be a world of opportunity, but with the people in charge of it now, no chance.

There is a big difference between and opportunity, and having the ability to take it.

I didn't vote for Brexit, but in my industry I could see that if the government put in place decent training and apprentice schemes then it could be an opportunity to invest in the youth and revitalise the British skills base - has they done that or even looked into to doing it - no. They could look at incentivising the manufacturing side of things, have they done that? No.

The issue is quite simply that a well managed exit of the EU would not have meant any of the issues we are now seeing, you can look at all the possible upsides of leaving the EU, but unless the people ion charge are competent enough to realise them then you are just going to have a mess.

Apprenticeships are provided by companies not Govt. The Govt provides ( currently) a £3k payment per apprentice hired together with help and advice on training. Training for most trades is provided by FE colleges ( tax payer funded). If your industry is not hiring apprentices you need to put your questions to your company or your Industry Association.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Looks like it’s all bikes from that website. Not just Radon.

 

[Mikerb]

Er, no, safety standards that stop third countries exporting dangerous goods to us.

Meeting standards set by the destination country is an integral aspect of all import licences. In the case of the UK it is the standards set by the British Standards Institute which has continued to set its own standards as well as shadowing EU standards where they are suitable.

 

[R120]

the majority of brands we buy from are frame designers, specifiers, and part assemblers. Frames are made in Taiwan or China, many components come from the Far East.

Apprenticeships are provided by companies not Govt. The Govt provides ( currently) a £3k payment per apprentice hired together with help and advice on training. Training for most trades is provided by FE colleges ( tax payer funded). If your industry is not hiring apprentices you need to put your questions to your company or your Industry Association.

My industry hires apprentices, the problem is the standard of technical training available and what is viewed as being an acceptable skills level to perform a trade is well below and acceptable standard, meaning that many tradesmen who have been though aprentiships are not actually trained up to a level where you would let them loose on a site. This also means that it is very hard for anyone looking to get into the industry to see a clear pathway to becoming a master craftsman, simply because the concept of that skillset has been by and large lost over the last 40 years with the ability to bang out a job quickly valued over quality of execution.

Britain has a reputation for craftsmanship and engineering excellence, but it is one we have been throwing away due to lack of quality training opportunities outside of those offered by a relatively small amount of top end companies, when the opportunity to train to a master level should be open to all.

 

[Mikerb]

Looks like it’s all bikes from that website. Not just Radon.

View attachment 47504

View attachment 47505

They have 2 courier companies for large items...DPD and DHL. The problem seems to be with them rather than the site or any brand of bike. Anything of more reasonable size ...clothing, components etc, does not flag any problem with despatching to the UK.

 

[Tonycube]

I think the majority of the buying public will be pissed off they cant buy something they could before, and if they can it will cost more.

I work in construction, and everything is more expensive or not available, with no visibility on pricing, lead time or availability. We have EU qualified Architechts, engineers etc who have no idea come January first if they will still have recognised qualifications in the UK and able to carry on working. We have insurance companies refusing to provide cover on big jobs and they cant quantify the risks to programme and supply, and we have zero visibility on realistic costs to contract, as everything now has to have a Brexit clause in it which makes any agreed pricing up for renegotiation.

I am not for or anti Brexit, what I am for is competency in those executing it, and what we have right now is a an absolute disaster irrelevant of your political views, because the muppets running the country are so far out of their depth in terms of any sort of semblance to the real world impact of what they are negotiating because none of them have ever worked in any of the industries whose futures they are deciding.

great statement 100% bang on

 

[Mikerb]

I think even you must have travelled Europe and discovered the joys of just how high the UK's standards in most things are in comparison to large parts of Europe. Why would the Brits accept anything other ?

But keep the focus on EBikes, we know they are predominantly made in the far East and imported as semi built bikes. So how are the standards going to change, the manufacturers are not going to make sub standard bikes just for the UK, the brand would be destroyed in a matter of months such is the internets power of having no boundaries much like Covid.

They will not change, at least not until and unless the UK via the BSI decide a different standard is required. The majority of BSI and EU standards are aligned ( for obvious reasons) ...and further aligned by joint membership of the International Standards Organisation (ISO) which is non governmental and based in Switzerland.

 

[MadsB]

The problem is not the concept of Brexit, I have no doubt if done competently by people who knew what they where doing then it could be a world of opportunity, but with the people in charge of it now, no chance.

There is a big difference between and opportunity, and having the ability to take it.

I didn't vote for Brexit, but in my industry I could see that if the government put in place decent training and apprentice schemes then it could be an opportunity to invest in the youth and revitalise the British skills base - has they done that or even looked into to doing it - no. They could look at incentivising the manufacturing side of things, have they done that? No.

The issue is quite simply that a well managed exit of the EU would not have meant any of the issues we are now seeing, you can look at all the possible upsides of leaving the EU, but unless the people ion charge are competent enough to realise them then you are just going to have a mess.

Agree with your view.

That surely begs the question that if the U.K. government couldn’t make trade work whilst an EU member, how on earth would they be capable of making trade work outside it? Seeing as it’s the largest single market in the world.

 

[Mikerb]

Agree with your view.

That surely begs the question that if the U.K. government couldn’t make trade work whilst an EU member, how on earth would they be capable of making trade work outside it? Seeing as it’s the largest single market in the world.

What aspect of trade could the UK not make work? The UK economy is the second largest in Europe after Germany. and the 6th largest globally. In terms of the world economy the EU represents c 15% by GPD and is by no means the biggest single market with both the USA and China being bigger. Just as important there is zero growth in most of Europe coupled with large % of unemployment, whereas markets in SE Asia and India etc have double digit growth....where would you aim if you were exporting??

 

[smtkelly]

TLR - ebikes are going to be more expensive from imprt duties and customs, while value of you money will be going down (in global terms) and you taxes mostly likely up.

We're all passengers now. Those in charge are determined to kept control for better or worse so you don't have a say any more. There no denying the UK had a poorly phased hasty referendum, a champaign with no oversight or rules, 2 post referendum elections and 2nd election called instead of a referendum because 1st past the post election against an unpalatable opponent was offered the best result for those in charge.

Unlike trump who's choices can be unpicked, the UK's choice will last into my children's retirement and long after the bexit champions are dead. At the moment we may be the world top 5/6 economy however if what gives us that strength leaves or fails because of no deal shock what happens. Business are simple creatures stability and low regulation, probably why all those brexit support business owners moved their productions out of the UK. While a cheap pound may be good for exports short term its only true long term if everything is made here. For the lay person at least half of what you buy will be imported so a cheap pound makes most things more expensive same effect as tariffs.

Recent history is littered with prosperous nations that idealism killed. Someone said "Sovereignty is the ability to make rules and break them when ever you feel like it." - That's the appeal to the political classes, it has little to do with a better deal for the UK's population. At best I think we can hope to become a low tax heaven for the rich at the expense of the working classes who mostly voted for brexit believing it offered a 'new deal' for them. We certainly wont be brokering any good trade deals with the major economies (we didn't manage one with the worlds 3rd biggest). Most people in the UK are looking at a real term pay cut come Jan2021 at best a few percent and at worst well into double digits for the next decade (+ cost of covid). Jan2021 Europe will act solely in their best interest there's already been hints a luring the UK's economic jewels away the game with turn from friendly to cut-throat.

What I am sure of is, when brexit started I was undecided. When it came to voting I voted remain because none of leave promises stood up to mild scrutiny. Since then I've only become more pro European from the way probrexit has behaved and mislead. My personal belief is by the end of 2021 people are going to be talking about how nice 2020 was.

 

[Gary]

ebikes

 

[#lazy]

He should of believed more !

 

[#lazy]

Waynemarlow ; I’m sure I heard Sam Hill will be on dengwho next year ?

 

[RustyMTB]

Sure there's going to be change, some pain and some losers in the short term.

That would be me then. I've run a haualge company for twenty years. All we do is domestic UK distribution, no cross border trade whatsoever.

Every single customer we serve imports either finished goods or raw materials from the EU & none of them know what's happening in three weeks time. To say this thing is an utter shitshow that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the sales brochure is the understatement of the century. It's no exaggeration to say quarter 1, 2021 will be existential for me, my staff & the ££££'s I raise for the exchequer and for what? As far as I can see, a future that diminishes our economy, our freedoms and our international standing.

But sure, some short term losers. So easy to type that out.

 

[#lazy]

We’ll have more .....fish ! Sorry ?
We won’t even have them , we can’t get enough people to pick fruit and veg so finding enough to get up at 4am and get out on the North Sea for a 12hr shift is not going to be easy !

 

[Zimmerframe]

An update on this from Bike-Discount :

Dear Zimmer,


Thank you for your interest in our shop, unfortunately we currently can not ship to the UK until further notice because it is still totally unclear how the future trade relations between the EU and the UK will be after the Brexit transition period has expired.

We hope that we can resume shipping as soon as the situation has been solved.


Best Regards
Philipp Kneip

 

[STATO]

That would be me then. I've run a haualge company for twenty years. All we do is domestic UK distribution, no cross border trade whatsoever.

Every single customer we serve imports either finished goods or raw materials from the EU & none of them know what's happening in three weeks time. To say this thing is an utter shitshow that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the sales brochure is the understatement of the century. It's no exaggeration to say quarter 1, 2021 will be existential for me, my staff & the ££££'s I raise for the exchequer and for what? As far as I can see, a future that diminishes our economy, our freedoms and our international standing.

But sure, some short term losers. So easy to type that out.

Thats the issue isnt it, the broad future opportunities mean many have to suffer now.

Talking about bikes again, setting up UK importers for a small sales amount costs the customer more than an EU based importer. Some big brands currently do it, but they have the sales numbers, smaller brands dont. We will still have tarrifs to prevent dumping of tat, and ebikes are still going to be on 6% so no difference importing direct from manufacturer than today, just without the choice of EU bikes as well.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Just had this from a shipper .. Ultimately companies are trying to follow the guidelines from Boris which have taken several years to write "Be Prepared" ..

Obviously, this means none of you will be receiving your xmas presents from me this year.

Translated :

Hello Zimmer ,
we are contacting you because you have already used our services to ship to the UK.
As announced by the press a few days ago, the Brexit transition period will end on January 1, 2021. The United Kingdom will once again become a state no longer part of the European Union.
Regarding the movement of goods and therefore the shipment of packages to the UK, the situation remains uncertain for the moment.

Mondial Relay has decided to temporarily suspend its activity of sending parcels to this destination from the sites mondialrelay.fr , mondialrelay.be , but also from the sites of our partners. This suspension will come into effect as of December 20, 2020 . The duration of this interruption remains indefinite for the moment. thank you for your understanding

 

[EME]

@STATO Unfortunately, many household names in many industries have over the last 3 years been moving their European distribution centres to mainland Europe from the UK. The logic very simple , serve the 85% well and not the 15%. So for many products prices in mainland Europe will stay the same whilst the increase will be felt by UK end-customers. Admittedly it wont be the 'full' tariff rates as tariffs are charged upon 'sales values plus shipping' which are less than RRP/MRSP.