Progressive Coil spring on Decoy

[Madturk]

Hi, I am currently running marzocchi bomber cr with 500lbs CC valt spring, sag is 29% with 1full turn of preload.
I have discovered today, I have bottomed the shock out quite of few times today on a trail that has drops up to 4ft nothing bigger.
I was wondering if I go 550lbs I’m going to mess the sag, my other option is to get progressive coil spring but been informed that Decoy does not need progressive spring, has anyone tried progressive spring does it work?
What I want to achieve is that more planted ride at the moment on chunky stuff it’s not great! Not good as my previous bike whyte t130s with cc dB Coil il rear shock ?

 

[R120]

might be worth trying a Sprindex, but I also dont think going from 500 to 550 on an EMTB is that big a jump, and if you are bottoming out the shock on a 4ft drop that doesn't sound right, unless you are literally dropping it to flat.

First Look: Sprindex's Adjustable-Rate Coil Spring - Pinkbike

This clever coil spring lets riders easily adjust how firm it is by hand - no tools needed. Here's how it works.

www.pinkbike.com

 

[Madturk]

might be worth trying a Sprindex, but I also dont think going from 500 to 550 on an EMTB is that big a jump, and if you are bottoming out the shock on a 4ft drop that doesn't sound right, unless you are literally dropping it to flat.

First Look: Sprindex's Adjustable-Rate Coil Spring - Pinkbike

This clever coil spring lets riders easily adjust how firm it is by hand - no tools needed. Here's how it works.

www.pinkbike.com

Thanks for your reply, I am not new to Mtb world, there is definitely something not right as how can the shorter travel Whyte t130s could be more planted at the rear end? Also forgot to mention that the spring I’m using is 2.5x500lbs which is slightly shorter than the stroke length not sure that would have negative impact on it.
I like the idea of cane creek progressive spring 500-610lbs or maybe 550lbs would be better? My riding weight is around 95kg fully geared up, Tf tunes spring Calculator gives me 487lbs spring rate.

 

[R120]

I am probably a few kg under you kitted up and run a 550 or 600 spring on a Super Deluxe coil on an emtb (not a decoy). I am not that familiar with the suspension platform on the Decoy, but it may just be that the leverage curve on it requires a heavier spring than other bikes with similar travel, or vice versa.

Also the Whyte is quite a different kind of bike (one of my favourites though, nice ride!) and I would say hard to use as a comparison, firstly its not having to deal with around 10kg of extra bike, and I would have thought the stroke is less?

 

[KenX]

For sure you'll get less sag, maybe a price to pay if you're bottoming out a lot?
Looking at the TFTuned spring calculator you'll probably get 5-10% less sag, maybe speak to the guys in the workshop there, very helpful!
Or, more compression damping?
I considered a progressive spring on my Decoy with the Bomber, but the std spring works fine for my riding, I'm 70kg on the scales and went for a 400lb spring FWIW......

 

[Madturk]

For sure you'll get less sag, maybe a price to pay if you're bottoming out a lot?
Looking at the TFTuned spring calculator you'll probably get 5-10% less sag, maybe speak to the guys in the workshop there, very helpful!
Or, more compression damping?
I considered a progressive spring on my Decoy with the Bomber, but the std spring works fine for my riding, I'm 70kg on the scales and went for a 400lb spring FWIW......

Thanks for reply mate, I may try the 550lbs spring I’m 25kg heavier than you ?
There is not much adjustment on the shock I have tried few clicks of LSC but still not happy.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

I am 73Kg fully kitted. With a 400lb spring, I am at 30-31% sag. With a 450lb spring, I am at 26-27% sag. I prefer the bike at 30% sag since it is what the manufacturer suggest we ride this bike at so cornering/handling and Geo is best at 30%. So with my 400lb spring, I found I have to add a decent (3/4 of the way) amount of HSC in order to prevent harsh bottom outs on 4 foot drops. However adding this compression harshens the rear end a bit. On my 450lb spring, I don't get the harshness since I have HSC open almost all the way (1/4 of the way) and bottomout support is great but I don't like my bike at 26-27% sag since I do a lot of very steep decents and having less sag out back isn't ideal.

I think the rear end of the Decoy is not very progressive. Thus, I think the best approach is to purchase a progressive Coil. For me, I think the Cane Creek 400-488lb spring is the ticket.

 

[KenX]

I'm the same 73kg kitted as you Mike and same sag (around 31%), I don't do the 4ft drops, so can run the compression pretty much open and benefit from the plush ride without bottoming.....
In fact the rear is so plush, I've ordered a Smashpot fork coil conversion from TFTuned as the front now feels really harsh in comparison!

 

[Dirtnvert]

One of my next purchases will be a coil for my decoy. Sounds like a progressive coil would be the best option.
Was looking at the spindrex but thryre kind of pricey. These guys have progressively wound coils. Not really familiar with them but seem to have a reputable following(push industries etc)

Race Only Springs (@raceonlysprings) • Instagram photos and videos

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[Madturk]

I am 73Kg fully kitted. With a 400lb spring, I am at 30-31% sag. With a 450lb spring, I am at 26-27% sag. I prefer the bike at 30% sag since it is what the manufacturer suggest we ride this bike at so cornering/handling and Geo is best at 30%. So with my 400lb spring, I found I have to add a decent (3/4 of the way) amount of HSC in order to prevent harsh bottom outs on 4 foot drops. However adding this compression harshens the rear end a bit. On my 450lb spring, I don't get the harshness since I have HSC open almost all the way (1/4 of the way) and bottomout support is great but I don't like my bike at 26-27% sag since I do a lot of very steep decents and having less sag out back isn't ideal.

I think the rear end of the Decoy is not very progressive. Thus, I think the best approach is to purchase a progressive Coil. For me, I think the Cane Creek 400-488lb spring is the ticket.

Thanks Mike, I totally agree with you, the rear end of the decoy must not be progressive enough to overcome the amount of weight, so yesterday afternoon found someone selling a Cane creek progressive coil 500-610lbs on ebay, so I bought it really good price, going to try that if it doesn't work I will go with 550lbs spring, I'm like you, I don't really want any less sag, I like how the bike handles other than the harsh bottom outs.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Let us know how it goes. I will pick one up after you try it out. I'm not 100% sold on the white color haha

 

[Madturk]

Let us know how it goes. I will pick one up after you try it out. I'm not 100% sold on the white color haha

Will do Mike, the one I got has been powder coated with rockshox red by the previous owner, tbh I would of preferred white even though my decoy is red, I have wrapped the seat stays Matt black trying to gone down the red, and now I'm going to have red coil spring ?

 

[seamarsh]

Spring is only to get you in correct position in the travel, With minimal preload. After this then would be better to get it valved for your weight and conditions. I have a bomber on order but they are back ordered for 3 weeks. I got it because it’s supposed to be the best coil to have tuned.

Fox Van Rc and Bomber CR Speed sensitive Damper SSD mods

Avalanche Downhill Racing gives you a competitive advantage with its long travel shocks and forks. Virtually maintenance free suspension guaranteed.

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If you are happy with sag on that spring, send it in for modification.. better money spent.

 

[YokoOno]

Spring is only to get you in correct position in the travel, With minimal preload. After this then would be better to get it valved for your weight and conditions. I have a bomber on order but they are back ordered for 3 weeks. I got it because it’s supposed to be the best coil to have tuned.

I highly recommend taking a look at the Push Elevensix. Push Industries has their shock perfectly dialed for the Decoy

 

[seamarsh]

I highly recommend taking a look at the Push Elevensix. Push Industries has their shock perfectly dialed for the Decoy

$$$$ but yeah I’m sure.. bomber cr is 299.. plays a custom tune 250 so 550 and a shock valved for you.

 

[Madturk]

Thanks guys, That's definitely the next step, tftuned does push tune on bomber, I thought I use it for few months before that so I can feel the difference, shock service and push tune is £155.
I did consider fox X2 and push but I could not bring myself to pay that much money straight after bike purchase. Maybe next upgrade, have to wait a year or so.

 

[Madturk]

Thanks guys, That's definitely the next step, tftuned does push tune on bomber, I thought I use it for few months before that so I can feel the difference, shock service and push tune is £155.
I did consider fox X2 and push but I could not bring myself to pay that much money straight after bike purchase. Maybe next upgrade, have to wait a year or so.

Hi guys, just the quick update on progressive coil, I have installed the 500-610lbs cane creek progressive coil spring, and so far ridden the bike twice, first of all I have around %30 sag after first ride I have managed to use full travel but without the harsh bottom out, which is the result I was after, I think I'm still not perfectly happy with the shock but for now it's ok going forward I either need to get the shock custom tuned or get more adjustable shock, I am not a pro on suspension setup but I know I can feel that the rear end of the bike is not dialed yet.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Hi guys, just the quick update on progressive coil, I have installed the 500-610lbs cane creek progressive coil spring, and so far ridden the bike twice, first of all I have around %30 sag after first ride I have managed to use full travel but without the harsh bottom out, which is the result I was after, I think I'm still not perfectly happy with the shock but for now it's ok going forward I either need to get the shock custom tuned or get more adjustable shock, I am not a pro on suspension setup but I know I can feel that the rear end of the bike is not dialed yet.

Great timing. Thanks for updating. I ordered a cane creek db coil for my decoy. I had forgotten they make progressive coil springs as well. I'm usually on a 450lb spring so maybe i'll give the cheap steel 450 a try for correct sag then order up the progressive coil. Hopefully the canadian distributor has stock on the springs. Theyre the same distributor for dvo. I was trying to get a jade x initially but no stock for a few weeks on those so jumped at the cane creek straight away. My last cane creek db was solid and really good after i dialed it in. Its $90 cad extra but i figure its worth the known quantity for me.

 

[Madturk]

Please let us know how the cane creek shock is performing, I’m thinking about upgrading the shock with dhx2 or CC Dbcoil, Also may even go back to air shock maybe float x2, CC dbair cs, dvo or topaz t3.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Please let us know how the cane creek shock is performing, I’m thinking about upgrading the shock with dhx2 or CC Dbcoil, Also may even go back to air shock maybe float x2, CC dbair cs, dvo or topaz t3.

Put my cane creek on. Ive got a couple days of laps in and base settings pretty much adjusted. A few little tweaks. Seriously, screw air shocks. Every year they say theyve got them perfected and then by mid season the pros are back on coil. Its night and day, even before i had it set. First lap it was like a pogo stick with not enough lsr or hsr. Faster from the first lap on. Ive now added 4 clicks of lsr and a 1/4 turn on the hsr. Im using all tge travel but no harsh bottom outs yet with the standard coil. Things are getting quicker fast and im checking rims for dings though so i may need a progressive coil. Im going to add a bit more hsc and hsr i think. Try and make the bike stick in the rough and see if i can ease into full travel. I should know if i need a progressive coil after a few more days. I've no experience on a dhx2 but my last cc db coil was as amazing of an upgrade as this one and it was absolutely bomber for 3 years and i bought it with a years use. I had the old cc db coil on a banshee rune with a 450lb spring(non progressive). Even though i used all the travel and the rune is fairly linear in travel i was fine. 180 lyric and the db coil on the 160 rune and i was comfortable with my regular riding buddies on there dh bikes. Not the same but damn close. Same feeling with the decoy now but i ended up with a 350lb spring on the decoy. Strange, ive always been on a 450. Cc spring calculator put me at 368lb and im probably 175lbs geared up. Pretty stoked except i got an error yesterday. I just want to ride it so bad roght now its killing me. Error wo13. Says its a tourque sensor but a few days ago my speed sensor came loose and an error shut it down. Found the loose speed sensor, tightened it and good to go. Now yesterday i got the wo13 after a few laps and speed sensor was still tight but the wire to the sensor was super tight. Swingarm gradually tightens it. Hoping thats the problem. That might have made the sensor loose last week. Might just be that cable/wire/plug in .Ill check the plug to the motor first.
I'd recommend coil for sure. Definitely definitely. Which coil i cant say for sure but past experience has given me a bit of trust in cane creek. Rock shox lacked adjustments and definitely needed a rebuild annually(although they sll probably should but im not that organized). Marz can be dialed in with custom service and fox have the all adjustments. Not really sure on the marz fox durability these days. I hear mixed reports. Bad reports could just be standard rebuild timing things, idk. DVO looks ez serviceable and some cool features and good price but no real experience other than my dvo fork is really good. I went with my best past experience. Had the cc db coil on my demo8 too. A few days to get it dialed in with one or 2 clicks every lap and soon its another world. Its really opened up the trail for me in just 3 days of testing/tweaking. Have a new 180 debonair air shaft waiting to go into the "poor mans lyric" and i just want to ride!! Its painful.
One other thing. After i put the cc db coil on i find i want for fine tuning out of the damper in the fork now. Its fine but im getting the rear fine tuned and there's not much more i can do at the fork. Maybe the new debonair shaft will bring it closer

 

[rb.]

Anyone ever run a 230x57.5mm shock? Obviously not ideal, but wondering if it will make a noticeable difference. Got a super deluxe coil to test out and a few different springs. Hoping the 500lb mrp progressive spring will work nice.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Im guessing it'll just shorten your travel 18-19mm . I havent seen any leverage ratio graphs, feels fairly linear with probably a touch of ramp at full travel. You wont get to full travel with the shorter stroke but the prog coil should cover that. Worth a try. Cant see it hurting anything, if that's your concern
Should give you a good idea how awesome a coil is . 147mm of coil travel is still quite capable.

 

[Madturk]

Put my cane creek on. Ive got a couple days of laps in and base settings pretty much adjusted. A few little tweaks. Seriously, screw air shocks. Every year they say theyve got them perfected and then by mid season the pros are back on coil. Its night and day, even before i had it set. First lap it was like a pogo stick with not enough lsr or hsr. Faster from the first lap on. Ive now added 4 clicks of lsr and a 1/4 turn on the hsr. Im using all tge travel but no harsh bottom outs yet with the standard coil. Things are getting quicker fast and im checking rims for dings though so i may need a progressive coil. Im going to add a bit more hsc and hsr i think. Try and make the bike stick in the rough and see if i can ease into full travel. I should know if i need a progressive coil after a few more days. I've no experience on a dhx2 but my last cc db coil was as amazing of an upgrade as this one and it was absolutely bomber for 3 years and i bought it with a years use. I had the old cc db coil on a banshee rune with a 450lb spring(non progressive). Even though i used all the travel and the rune is fairly linear in travel i was fine. 180 lyric and the db coil on the 160 rune and i was comfortable with my regular riding buddies on there dh bikes. Not the same but damn close. Same feeling with the decoy now but i ended up with a 350lb spring on the decoy. Strange, ive always been on a 450. Cc spring calculator put me at 368lb and im probably 175lbs geared up. Pretty stoked except i got an error yesterday. I just want to ride it so bad roght now its killing me. Error wo13. Says its a tourque sensor but a few days ago my speed sensor came loose and an error shut it down. Found the loose speed sensor, tightened it and good to go. Now yesterday i got the wo13 after a few laps and speed sensor was still tight but the wire to the sensor was super tight. Swingarm gradually tightens it. Hoping thats the problem. That might have made the sensor loose last week. Might just be that cable/wire/plug in .Ill check the plug to the motor first.
I'd recommend coil for sure. Definitely definitely. Which coil i cant say for sure but past experience has given me a bit of trust in cane creek. Rock shox lacked adjustments and definitely needed a rebuild annually(although they sll probably should but im not that organized). Marz can be dialed in with custom service and fox have the all adjustments. Not really sure on the marz fox durability these days. I hear mixed reports. Bad reports could just be standard rebuild timing things, idk. DVO looks ez serviceable and some cool features and good price but no real experience other than my dvo fork is really good. I went with my best past experience. Had the cc db coil on my demo8 too. A few days to get it dialed in with one or 2 clicks every lap and soon its another world. Its really opened up the trail for me in just 3 days of testing/tweaking. Have a new 180 debonair air shaft waiting to go into the "poor mans lyric" and i just want to ride!! Its painful.
One other thing. After i put the cc db coil on i find i want for fine tuning out of the damper in the fork now. Its fine but im getting the rear fine tuned and there's not much more i can do at the fork. Maybe the new debonair shaft will bring it closer

Thanks for sharing your experience, I had a CC Dbcoil il on my Whyte t130s which was amazing, took me few rides to dial it in and didn’t touch it for a year, that’s what I love about coil shocks, so I bought the decoy base as I wanted the yari fork and I thought I will upgrade the shock to coil straight away.
As you guys may seen I started this thread as I was not happy with the setup at the rear of my decoy with marzocchi bomber, first started with 500lbs spring which gives me 30% sag, but I was blowing through the travel on even small drop offs, than I went with progressive spring which was better no harsh bottom outs and I use all of the available travel, but still rear end of the bike feel dead so I gave up and sold the shock! I think two problem with the shock there is not much mid stroke support in its standard tune for decoy and my weight, I weigh 95kg fully geared up, custom tune may have help with that but it’s like £155 for that and Also noticed that the bottom out bumper is tiny so that’s why it feels so harsh when I bottomed it out. Before I bought the Marz bomber Mtb_Mike recommend a shock with hsc adjustment as decoy definitely needs that! I should of been less impatient and listen to him, It would of saved me few £££!!! never mind I’m in the market again for a new shock, like you I had very good experience with CC Dbcoil shocks, so I think I may go with that, but I must say I’m also considering air shock, much as I love the feel of coil shock, having the versatility of adding few more psi to adjust spring rate for different trails is great but I think only two shock may match the performance of coil is the fox x2 and CC dbair, unless I’m missing something else. I am glad that you are having a better experience on the Cane creek Dbcoil, I guess marz bomber is half of the price of the cane creek so it has to be better.

I guess back to doing research and this time I’m going to take my time and get the right shock for my decoy. Btw I have installed the 2021 debonair upgrade on my 170mm airshaft on my yari and added 3 clicks hsc and 8 clicks of lsc on the rc2 damper fork feels amazing now, which made already bad rear end even more noticeable! that was the final straw, hence why I sold the shock.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Thanks for sharing your experience, I had a CC Dbcoil il on my Whyte t130s which was amazing, took me few rides to dial it in and didn’t touch it for a year, that’s what I love about coil shocks, so I bought the decoy base as I wanted the yari fork and I thought I will upgrade the shock to coil straight away.
As you guys may seen I started this thread as I was not happy with the setup at the rear of my decoy with marzocchi bomber, first started with 500lbs spring which gives me 30% sag, but I was blowing through the travel on even small drop offs, than I went with progressive spring which was better no harsh bottom outs and I use all of the available travel, but still rear end of the bike feel dead so I gave up and sold the shock! I think two problem with the shock there is not much mid stroke support in its standard tune for decoy and my weight, I weigh 95kg fully geared up, custom tune may have help with that but it’s like £155 for that and Also noticed that the bottom out bumper is tiny so that’s why it feels so harsh when I bottomed it out. Before I bought the Marz bomber Mtb_Mike recommend a shock with hsc adjustment as decoy definitely needs that! I should of been less impatient and listen to him, It would of saved me few £££!!! never mind I’m in the market again for a new shock, like you I had very good experience with CC Dbcoil shocks, so I think I may go with that, but I must say I’m also considering air shock, much as I love the feel of coil shock, having the versatility of adding few more psi to adjust spring rate for different trails is great but I think only two shock may match the performance of coil is the fox x2 and CC dbair, unless I’m missing something else. I am glad that you are having a better experience on the Cane creek Dbcoil, I guess marz bomber is half of the price of the cane creek so it has to be better.

I guess back to doing research and this time I’m going to take my time and get the right shock for my decoy. Btw I have installed the 2021 debonair upgrade on my 170mm airshaft on my yari and added 3 clicks hsc and 8 clicks of lsc on the rc2 damper fork feels amazing now, which made already bad rear end even more noticeable! that was the final straw, hence why I sold the shock.

Thanks. Glad i didnt get the marz rear shock, out of stock. Price was tempting and im sufprised its that different. Im doing little adjustments here and there with the cc. Really close now. Feels great. I do use thd climb switch too. Full climb switch when im going up the logging roads and full open on the doen. Only one trail ride do i had the seitch at half setting(middle) for slme up/down stuff and some rolling singletrack climbs.
Note taken on your gork adjustment. Adding a fork damper to the list.
Such a fun bike. The fit is great. I really like the added mobility of bikes with logs of standover. Theyve been my favorite bikes to date, demo8, transition scout and this decoy. Sooo stoked now with that cc coil on it

 

[YokoOno]

I guess back to doing research and this time I’m going to take my time and get the right shock for my decoy.

Push ElevenSix is what you seek. Worth every penny.

 

[Mcharza]

Please tell how's it working, because one golden rule is "progressive spring doesn't work under 60 stroke".

 

[Madturk]

Push ElevenSix is what you seek. Worth every penny.

Unfortunately it’s way too expensive, would love to have one but not sure I could bring myself to spend around £1200 on a shock, bike took all my savings to start with!! maybe I should live with the oem shock for few months and save up.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Or EXT. I messaged with the US distributor and he recommended their dh shock. It has a hydraulic bottom out and they have tested with a decoy

 

[speedkills]

I'm surprised everyone goes with the storia myself, I'd rather have the adjustable hydraulic bottom out of the DH shock personally. I did reach out to their dealer (not the California one) and between how quickly they tried to get me off the phone, and then never emailing me back to follow up as they said they would I decided I'd rather not try to deal with them for support so abandoned the idea.

 

[Dirtnvert]

I'm surprised everyone goes with the storia myself, I'd rather have the adjustable hydraulic bottom out of the DH shock personally. I did reach out to their dealer (not the California one) and between how quickly they tried to get me off the phone, and then never emailing me back to follow up as they said they would I decided I'd rather not try to deal with them for support so abandoned the idea.

I messaged them through their for sale ad in "coil rear shocks" on pinkbike buy n sell. He was very responsive and messaged me back right away and then followed up. That guy was in SLC utah though. Nice guy. I was looking at the enduro shock(can't remember the name) with the climb switch. He suggested the dh shock(storia?) for the same reason you suggested, makes sense. Told me the canadian distributor and that the canadian distributor set a few decoys up with them and was familiar with the proper settings for the decoy. I haven't checked with the canadian distributor though. Maybe it was a cali thing. Much smoke in cali, zero in utah