Post-Bankruptcy Pole Support Thread

[slickrock]

Starting this thread for Pole EMTB owners who will now have to deal with support, parts availability, repairs, etc. now that Pole appears to no longer be a going concern as a business in its current state. My guess is that most owners will continue to own and enjoy their existing bikes into the foreseeable future and need to keep their bikes in working condition without the namesake company to lean on for support and warranty issues.

 

[TheSlaYYer]

Hi - Sadly I'm probably one of hundreds that have been eagerly awaiting a new Pole Bike after placing an order in recent months ... whilst I feel for the guys at Pole, I'm personally fuming that Pole were (and STILL ARE) so keen to take FULL PAYMENT from me for an order they knew they weren't going to be able to satisfy. I was a Sonni Frame only order - very little components required - I'm out of pocket for many thousands even with this small order - I'd hate to think what some people are owed out there. I've also got a garage full of expensive parts and no frame to attach them too. All VERY frustrating. Sad times.

 

[RustyIron]

Their web site is still taking orders.

So what does "bankruptcy" mean in Finland or the EU? Here in the U.S. there are a variety of different types. In one type, the court appoints a trustee to liquidate all assets and pay off creditors. Another type of bankruptcy protects the company from creditors while debt and operations are reorganized. Creditors are eventually repaid, and the company emerges as a viable operation. Just because some guy makes a YouTube video and says the company is going bankrupt does not absolve him of financial obligations... unless that's the way it's done over there.

 

[slickrock]

Hi - Sadly I'm probably one of hundreds that have been eagerly awaiting a new Pole Bike after placing an order in recent months ... whilst I feel for the guys at Pole, I'm personally fuming that Pole were (and STILL ARE) so keen to take FULL PAYMENT from me for an order they knew they weren't going to be able to satisfy. I was a Sonni Frame only order - very little components required - I'm out of pocket for many thousands even with this small order - I'd hate to think what some people are owed out there. I've also got a garage full of expensive parts and no frame to attach them too. All VERY frustrating. Sad times.

Their web site is still taking orders.

So what does "bankruptcy" mean in Finland or the EU? Here in the U.S. there are a variety of different types. In one type, the court appoints a trustee to liquidate all assets and pay off creditors. Another type of bankruptcy protects the company from creditors while debt and operations are reorganized. Creditors are eventually repaid, and the company emerges as a viable operation. Just because some guy makes a YouTube video and says the company is going bankrupt does not absolve him of financial obligations... unless that's the way it's done over there.

Agreed. I'm hoping for Chapter 11-style reorganization. This would allow the company reemerge with zeroed out equity shares and any unsecured lenders taking a hit first. As to the leadership, Leo might have to take back seat but remain on as a lead designer. A similar structure would exist if Pole were to be bought out, which could still theoretically happen.

OTOH, if it's Chapter-7 scenario, the company would be liquidated and sold off piece by piece. Customers who put money down for bikes they did not get would be first line to be made whole, after the lawyers of course.

But we are talking Finland here, so I'm not sure how things will proceed and what rights customers have during insolvency.

 

[THA]

.... if Pole were to be bought out, which could still theoretically happen.

The court appoints a trustee to liquidate all assets and pay off creditors.
But if I've understood correctly: when a company applies bankruptcy themselves, company may withdraw bankruptcy if they are able to pay off for the creditors. Meaning that if they get business sold, buyer can pay the depths and continue business. In that case warranties would not expire.
But in any case, business is shut down completely at the moment, and it will take at least weeks to months before any spares would be available again. And it shouldn't be possible to pay anything online either, because their accounts should be "frozen" (I don't know exact translations).

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Saw this on Pole Owners group which is interesting

 

[jacksonlui]

What will happen to all the customers who has placed orders and waiting for them to be shipped? Will they get refunded?

 

[slickrock]

What will happen to all the customers who has placed orders and waiting for them to be shipped? Will they get refunded?

I got my Sonni yesterday, so there could still be some hope for some folks bike delivery. It depends on the work week that Pole commit to for work week assembly. Mine was the 3rd week of March.

Otherwise, customers waiting are bankruptcy protection mode (see above) where basically things are frozen until either the company emerges from bankruptcy and or is methodologically liquidated. For customers the chances of getting a refund are probably good (i.e. there's a lot of capital equipment to liquidate), but it may take awhile.

 

[Tooks]

For customers the chances of getting a refund are probably good (i.e. there's a lot of capital equipment to liquidate), but it may take awhile.

Sadly, customers awaiting orders are usually way down the list of creditors to be paid back when a company ceases trading.

They’ll be behind taxes, secured creditors, and employees owed salaries usually, to name but three.

Best to hope for is that people paid with a credit card and they can claim their cash back via them.

None of us know the precise details of why Pole are in the place that they are, but it’s a situation that sucks big time for all concerned.

 

[Gavalar]

Hi - Sadly I'm probably one of hundreds that have been eagerly awaiting a new Pole Bike after placing an order in recent months ... whilst I feel for the guys at Pole, I'm personally fuming that Pole were (and STILL ARE) so keen to take FULL PAYMENT from me for an order they knew they weren't going to be able to satisfy. I was a Sonni Frame only order - very little components required - I'm out of pocket for many thousands even with this small order - I'd hate to think what some people are owed out there. I've also got a garage full of expensive parts and no frame to attach them too. All VERY frustrating. Sad times.

If you paid via credit card then you can action a Section 75 Chargeback through your card provider meaning you will be reimbursed as your purchase is insured, don't be a fool and assune you've lost your money when the credit purchase facility is there to protect the consumer and not the retailer.

 

[TOLM]

Sadly, customers awaiting orders are usually way down the list of creditors to be paid back when a company ceases trading.

They’ll be behind taxes, secured creditors, and employees owed salaries usually, to name but three.

Best to hope for is that people paid with a credit card and they can claim their cash back via them.

None of us know the precise details of why Pole are in the place that they are, but it’s a situation that sucks big time for all concerned.

I though customers would be first. Ahead of trade payable and secured creditors . like says bank loans secured via general security agreement or something like this.

 

[Gavalar]

I though customers would be first. Ahead of trade payable and secured creditors . like says bank loans secured via general security agreement or something like this.

Anyone who has placed an order using their credit card should action a Section 75 or similar chargeback through their card provider as your money ( actually their money ) is protected and you will receive a refund, if anyone has paid via debit card ( your own money ) then you are not protected and so will have to join the queue of other creditors, if anyone is unsure or in doubt I would suggest you read your credit card agreements to educate yourself into the procedure of how to raise the issue with your provider and commence with a chargeback.

 

[irie]

Moneyhelper.co.uk says

"Debit card payments and purchases aren't covered by section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. But if you don't get something you have paid for by debit card, and the firm is refusing to refund you, you can ask your bank to 'reverse the transaction' and get your money back via chargeback."

 

[Polar]

The only way to get back the money is if you paid by creditcard - unfortunately not debitcard or banktransfer is the law in Norway according to the "Financial Contracts Act" which gives you protection but I don't know if this act is a international act.

"If a company fails to meet its financial obligations, the company may be declared bankrupt. A bankruptcy estate takes over the management and will distribute the remaining values. Once this has been done, it is no longer possible to make new demands.

NOTE! Be aware that there often is nothing left for the consumer in a bankruptcy estate.

If you have paid with a credit card, the Financial Contracts Act gives you protection. The person who has given you credit (usually the bank) will be liable if the seller of a product or service goes bankrupt, and you have a legal claim against the seller. You can contact them both in the event of a complaint or if you have not received the item you paid for"