Pole S-Onni (Sonni)

[ylisuutari]

During the PB review of the pedal bike version of the Onni (Sonni) the reviewers complained quite a bit about the rigidity and harshness of the chassis and the excessive feedback that the frame transmitted to the rider.
The bike also bottomed very hard and very often for the testers.
Any experiences around here with those two characteristics?
Thx

No such experiences with Sonni. Sound like suspension related thing.

 

[AdH]

During the PB review of the pedal bike version of the Onni (Sonni) the reviewers complained quite a bit about the rigidity and harshness of the chassis and the excessive feedback that the frame transmitted to the rider.
The bike also bottomed very hard and very often for the testers.
Any experiences around here with those two characteristics?
Thx

Nope, definitely not. PB were on the short travel version. Get the 190-200 set up and all is good.

 

[Onetime]

During the PB review of the pedal bike version of the Onni (Sonni) the reviewers complained quite a bit about the rigidity and harshness of the chassis and the excessive feedback that the frame transmitted to the rider.
The bike also bottomed very hard and very often for the testers.
Any experiences around here with those two characteristics?
Thx

That test was with the shorter travel version and not the full 200/200 or 200/190 version, which I think was a mistake. I also think the shock may not have been dialed in very well. I think the Pinkbike tests are notorious for screwing up settings or not following manufacture recommendations and then complaining that it doesn’t work right.

 

[ebikerider]

That test was with the shorter travel version and not the full 200/200 or 200/190 version, which I think was a mistake. I also think the shock may not have been dialed in very well. I think the Pinkbike tests are notorious for screwing up settings or not following manufacture recommendations and then complaining that it doesn’t work right.

In the Pinkbike review the main complaint was the stiffness of the frame. Leo talks about this in the release video that the Onni is a very stiff and unforgiving ride and won't be for everyone. It is a race bike.

It could be argued that the Vivid is also the wrong choice of shock for the shorter travel link as the shape of the air curve could mean the bike would be sitting deep in its stroke which isn't going to help small bump or bottom out and to remedy they would have needed to fill it with tokens and a higher air pressure.

The Rockshox tunes are a little off imo and Pole afaik don't give any recommendations for settings (I didn't get any for my Voima or Vikkela) so that leaves Pinkbike to their own devices which historically speaking may or not be a good thing.

I'm curious why Pole has never sent out a Vikkela or a full travel Onni to any testers to do a decent appraisal? @leo_kokkonen

 

[slickrock]

During the PB review of the pedal bike version of the Onni (Sonni) the reviewers complained quite a bit about the rigidity and harshness of the chassis and the excessive feedback that the frame transmitted to the rider.
The bike also bottomed very hard and very often for the testers.
Any experiences around here with those two characteristics?
Thx

The PB review was the short-stroke Onni with no motor/battery, whose suspension design, according to Leo, took off both the top and bottom end of the travel. This ended up being the worst of both worlds - too stiff for the small stuff and easily bottoms out the big stuff. I would be very surprised if this would be the case with 200mm rear travel Sonni. The bike was inherently designed with 40 more mm of travel, to afford sag and generous long shock stroke tuning. The short-stroke Onni/Sonni are degenerated configurations, of which you should stay away from. Probably the same for the Voima , but we have yet to get any media reviews to confirm one way or another.

 

[slickrock]

Voima is really good and I like a lot as well, but I think Sonni suites better for my purposes which are over 80% DH and bikeparks.
Few upgrades waiting for summer and bikepark season, but standard conf seems to work pretty nice as well

You're the first user in this group to own both. We would appreciate if you tease out more detail on ride characteristics. Like suspension performance and transparency, sag and shock turning (do you have a Vivid?), steering and lean-in, climbing, descending, stack/riser config, etc. Most of the folks here are coming from a Voima, so we are very interested in the effective and qualitative differences here. Since you are going from a K2 to a K2, its bit like dropping a size, so that alone would produce a marked difference in agility, so also looking for similar qualities as well.

 

[THA]

I and ylisuutari have quite opposite approach to this - I'm more like trial-enduro rider as ylisuutari is most like MX rider. So agilitily takes different / opposite way on our comparisons.

 

[ylisuutari]

You're the first user in this group to own both. We would appreciate if you tease out more detail on ride characteristics. Like suspension performance and transparency, sag and shock turning (do you have a Vivid?), steering and lean-in, climbing, descending, stack/riser config, etc. Most of the folks here are coming from a Voima, so we are very interested in the effective and qualitative differences here. Since you are going from a K2 to a K2, its bit like dropping a size, so that alone would produce a marked difference in agility, so also looking for similar qualities as well.

Sure, I can tell more about differences. Please know that I am not any professional and my plan is to just have fun

In Finland we currently have lots of snow and ice, so traction is a bit different than summertime even with the spikes. I have now riden only little bit over 100km, snowboarding is taking my time as well

My plan was to updrade Voima to Sonni. First I was looking for frameset, but I noticed that a difference to the basic conf Sonni was so small that there was no sense, so I ordered Sonni with deluxe ultimate, zeb select, sram gx etc.
I sold my Voima with basic conf and left Hope brakes, cane creek coil, Charger3 damper, sram asx etc. to my shelf waiting for bikepark opening. I also have extra 29" e-deemax set with spike tires.

About questions: I Need more riding and summertime for deeper analyse, but here is some thoughts. I have tried demo-Sonnin in the bike park as well so I have some ideas.

- Ride characteristics: Sonni is a bit smaller. I am 172cm and I used to have K1 Evolink before Voima, which felt a bit small for me as I am an old MX/Enduro rider. K2 Voima felt so much better, but now when Sonni in a bit smaller, it feels to be perfect for me.
Sonni is more agile, easier to wheelie (very important ). 29" Sonni turns better than mullet Voima, but it might be size thing. Sonni feels a bit lighter as well.

- Suspension performance and tuning: I think rear link is more progressive. I have 190/200 conf and it goes so nice and smooth, but does not bottom in big jumps. I just tuned setup via trailhead. But as I told at beginning, winter is a bit different. Super deluxe ultimate have different setup than in Voima, but kitsuma coil should fit.

- Steering and lean-in: I think Sonni turns better with 29" rear wheel than mullet Voima. I have not riden mullet Sonni yet. Lean-in is difficult to say because of winter conditions.

- Climbing: Sonni climbs as well as all Pole's. If compared to Voima, I think Voima climb better (because it is longer), but I really can not feel the difference.

- During Demo session in the bike park as fall, I first took a Sonni with lower ricer with higher bar. I almost cancel my Sonni order, because my Voima felt so much better. Then I took another demo bike with similar conf as my Voima was (standard) and I was just smiling

- about battery: Someone might think it is annoying to remove battery every time when charging. Because of keyless removal, it is actually really good. You can easily remove the battery, put in in a charger and maintenance lighter bike.

More onformation will follow after more kilometers. Feel free to ask if any specific questions.

 

[ylisuutari]

Only -6 celsius today
Yesterday it was -26
Bike is feeling better every time

 

[slickrock]

​

Found this interesting Instagram post that, as an aside of the subject matter, shows a free-body diagram of the Voima and Sonni suspensions. What's interesting is that core 4-bar characterics of each are effectively the same (pivot motions and directions are the same, albeit in different coordinates), so I guess Leo's assertion that the Sonni also sports a Sensei suspension can hold water. Of course, there are differences that I would like to understand, such as the swing-arm path, and faux idler-gear geometry where the upper bar is directly in line with the the top chain. That said, there is still a dearth of material regarding the Sonni suspension that deserves video update from Leo.

 

[Naerz]

Supppp !
Did you guys receive your sonni ?? Really looking forward on that bike
A bit scared of spending at least 9k without trying the bike
Any issues, things I need to know ?
Geometry numbers looks perfect

 

[AdH]

Supppp !
Did you guys receive your sonni ?? Really looking forward on that bike
A bit scared of spending at least 9k without trying the bike
Any issues, things I need to know ?
Geometry numbers looks perfect

Had mine for a fortnight, it’s everything I’d hoped for. A bit more poppy and playful than the Voima. It’s ace

 

[Quinz]

My Sonni arrived on Wednesday and I had the opportunity to take it for a little spin today.
I'm super excited! I haven't been able to test much yet, but what I've noticed so far:

- it's insanely great to ride up hills, I've never had a bike where the front wheel hardly ever lifted off in steep terrain!
- I am 1.80 m tall and chose K2. It seems surprisingly small to me. I've now moved the saddle all the way back and will probably try a longer stem. But maybe I'll have to get used to it first.

Anyone who enjoys technology just a little will be thrilled. It's a wonderful piece of engineering!
You can look forward to your machines!

 

[Naerz]

Dammn looks good! Did you order it without trying ?

 

[Quinz]

Dammn looks good! Did you order it without trying ?

Yes, I already pre-ordered it in July 2023.
According to the table, K2 should fit up to 1.87 m tall.

 

[slickrock]

Had mine for a fortnight, it’s everything I’d hoped for. A bit more poppy and playful than the Voima. It’s ace

Excellent! What is your bike config? What shocks are you using? As the second fellow on the forum who came from a Voima, we would like some more details on the clear differences but nuances as well. Have you ridden the bikes on the same trails? Do you sense the bike a progression from the Voima or instead distinct from it. Have you tuned the suspension? Does feel like the Sensei suspension like the Voima or does it feel markedly different, etc.

 

[Plummet]

Dammn looks good!

Does it? Its certainly polerizing...(pun intended). I really don't like the look at all. The dog ball dangling motor is a deal breaker for me.

 

[Quinz]

Does it? Its certainly polerizing...(pun intended). I really don't like the look at all. The dog ball dangling motor is a deal breaker for me.

It's amazing how different preferences can be! In my eyes, this is one of the most visually attractive bikes currently available!

 

[deereatingapplesauce]

It's amazing how different preferences can be! In my eyes, this is one of the most visually attractive bikes currently available!

Yeah I love it too. I loved the voima, but I like everything about the Sonni more except the water bottle mount. I thought the Voima looked cool, but I think the Sonni looks way better. Sleek, refined, purposeful. Both cool for sure, but the Onni in particular is a stunner. I don't mind a motor hanging off the bottom. It's a moped after all lol.

 

[AdH]

Excellent! What is your bike config? What shocks are you using? As the second fellow on the forum who came from a Voima, we would like some more details on the clear differences but nuances as well. Have you ridden the bikes on the same trails? Do you sense the bike a progression from the Voima or instead distinct from it. Have you tuned the suspension? Does feel like the Sensei suspension like the Voima or does it feel markedly different, etc.

Ive a EXT e-storia on the back and Zebs on the front. Both swapped over from my Voima. Suspension progression feels similar to the Voima, perhaps the Voima was a bit softer. The frame itself is stiffer than the Voima in a good way. Steering feels much more positive and engaging. The Voima was more forgiving, just point it and it glided through the chunk. Sonni is more playful and poppy, surprising for a 190x200mm bike. Sonni definitely has a slightly shorter reach than Voima in K2. I don’t mind the ‘dangling sack’ it’s unashamedly an e-bike, it’s not trying to hide, it’s showing off. The race motor has tons of torque, acceleration over the trails I’ve ridden before on Voima felt quicker. I LOVE IT, can’t wait to spend many more hours getting acquainted

 

[Mossbeard]

I love sonni's design so much, so sleek and the raw aluminium with the cnc lines, so great!
Do you guys mind posting some more pictures of yours?

 

[ylisuutari]

 

[AdH]

 

[deereatingapplesauce]

View attachment 132537

Those both look amazing. I'm leaning towards mx wheel, and I'll be using a dual crown up front. How is the water bottle solution working out with the fidlock?

 

[slickrock]

Ive a EXT e-storia on the back and Zebs on the front. Both swapped over from my Voima. Suspension progression feels similar to the Voima, perhaps the Voima was a bit softer. The frame itself is stiffer than the Voima in a good way. Steering feels much more positive and engaging. The Voima was more forgiving, just point it and it glided through the chunk. Sonni is more playful and poppy, surprising for a 190x200mm bike. Sonni definitely has a slightly shorter reach than Voima in K2. I don’t mind the ‘dangling sack’ it’s unashamedly an e-bike, it’s not trying to hide, it’s showing off. The race motor has tons of torque, acceleration over the trails I’ve ridden before on Voima felt quicker. I LOVE IT, can’t wait to spend many more hours getting acquainted

Judging from the the subsequent picture you posted looks, like your setup is 29x29. Have you tried the bike in mullet config? The geometry of the Sonni seems to be dialed in for 27.5 rear, so saying that the bike is lively with 29x29, that's saying something.

 

[Plummet]

It's amazing how different preferences can be! In my eyes, this is one of the most visually attractive bikes currently available!

Yeah I love it too. I loved the voima, but I like everything about the Sonni more except the water bottle mount. I thought the Voima looked cool, but I think the Sonni looks way better. Sleek, refined, purposeful. Both cool for sure, but the Onni in particular is a stunner. I don't mind a motor hanging off the bottom. It's a moped after all lol.

Yeah, Beauty in the eye of the beholder before.

I don't like it from a design aspect. They have increased the C of G height by lifting the battery up. The dangling motor is, in my opinion potentially, very dangerous. Stuffing up a log or rock hop up could lead to injury. I've checked my skid plate on the voima and i do have skids up high. None on the battery, but very close too it. I also have a lot of vines locally. They can drape across the track and bounce up, The smooth transition of the voima slides them away. The dog ball motor will catch them. I wont be purchasing a sonni while it has this design flaw.

Personally i think they compromised the design to get it to the market sooner.

Move the Battery lower giving lower C of G. Remove the snag point by making a smooth transition from motor to battery, add a Flip chip for geo adjust between mullet and 29er, add different battery size options. Keep the new more progressive kinematics, stiffer rear end and playful geo of the Sonni and you have a kick arse E-dh bike that would be better than voima and sonni.

I'm not replacing the Voima any time soon. But maybe in a couple of years they will create the Voinni or Soima and that would be better than both current offerings.

 

[ylisuutari]

Judging from the the subsequent picture you posted looks, like your setup is 29x29. Have you tried the bike in mullet config? The geometry of the Sonni seems to be dialed in for 27.5 rear, so saying that the bike is lively with 29x29, that's saying something.

I have mullet config for summer for my Sonni. I had already 29" wheelset with winter tires from my Voima time, so I use them in snow conditions. I had Voima with 29/29 confic and mullet. I have driven Sonni only with 29/29 conf because all demo bikes was so. Regarding Leo, Sonni works fine with both confs, no problem at all.
Voima was more agile with mullet conf, but Sonni was even more agile with 29 wheels. Im my case, need to wait until summer for Sonni mullet testing.

 

[deereatingapplesauce]

Yeah, Beauty in the eye of the beholder before.

I don't like it from a design aspect. They have increased the C of G height by lifting the battery up. The dangling motor is, in my opinion potentially, very dangerous. Stuffing up a log or rock hop up could lead to injury. I've checked my skid plate on the voima and i do have skids up high. None on the battery, but very close too it. I also have a lot of vines locally. They can drape across the track and bounce up, The smooth transition of the voima slides them away. The dog ball motor will catch them. I wont be purchasing a sonni while it has this design flaw.

Personally i think they compromised the design to get it to the market sooner.

Move the Battery lower giving lower C of G. Remove the snag point by making a smooth transition from motor to battery, add a Flip chip for geo adjust between mullet and 29er, add different battery size options. Keep the new more progressive kinematics, stiffer rear end and playful geo of the Sonni and you have a kick arse E-dh bike that would be better than voima and sonni.

I'm not replacing the Voima any time soon. But maybe in a couple of years they will create the Voinni or Soima and that would be better than both current offerings.

I'm not worried about center of mass. Pole already have higher rider COM and bike COM compared to most bikes due to higher bb. Having the battery a little higher is negligible to me.

For the motor placement, to me it seems like an open design for iterative manufacturing, so I don't mind it. I've never ridden anything in my life that I would personally hang the motor up on, so it's a non issue for me. Grateful that I don't have vines though.

As for the flip chip, I agree that is typically the way to go. Both geos suit me here though, 27 for steeper riding, and 29 for everything else. 64.5 or whatever is still slack enough for nearly anything I've ridden in Whistler/Squamish/Bellingham. Rotorua isn't very steep, but I won't be getting an ebike in NZ after all.

I think it's visually striking and follows the Onni. The Onni looks amazing to me, and maybe that's where Pole could have differentiated slightly with downtube design and making the transition as you say. It doesn't matter to me, and frankly Pole seems to do what they want regardless of general appeal, which is something I've always loved. But it's good to have both options and I'm sure that it will keep improving.

 

[Quinz]

View attachment 132537

Beautiful bike and great components! What size water bottle from Fidlock do you get on it? 590ml or even 750ml?

 

[Naerz]

The dangling motor is, in my opinion potentially, very dangerous. Stuffing up a log or rock hop up could lead to injury. I've checked my skid plate on the voima and i do have skids up high. None on the battery, but very close too it. I also have a lot of vines locally. They can drape across the track and bounce up, The smooth transition of the voima slides them away. The dog ball motor will catch them. I wont be purchasing a sonni while it has this design flaw.

I'm agree with you, I don't like the dangling motor too. It kinda reminds me a bit of the bafang convertion motor.
With picture I can only imagine, but if the motor catch something it could be really bad
I'm looking forward for long term review about it.