Pinkbike ENVE M735 EMTB Wheel Review - Shattering to say the least
- Thread starter R120
- Start date
Bloody hell!
Wait! This is a $3K wheelset!!
The VP comments are interesting...
Thank you Paul for giving us the opportunity to comment on this experience.
I believe in owning the mistakes that were made on ENVE’s end and would like to clarify or add a different point of view to some of the claims or statements that were made in this review.
First, there is this concept around perfection that consistently comes up whenever anything goes wrong with an ENVE product based on the price of our products. Let’s be clear, perfection is a myth. For ENVE, it’s certainly the goal, but we’ve never pinned a label on ourselves claiming we are perfect. Quite the contrary, we strive daily to be better in all aspects, but it’s a journey and we don’t mask the imperfections of our products behind a façade of filler and paint. That said, it puts that much more responsibility on our QC teams who are people and sometimes people make mistakes. Should Paul have received a rim with a fiber peel and imperfectly drilled spoke holes? Absolutely not. When we screw up, we own it and take care of the customer no questions asked. It is ENVE’s long-standing warranty and leading reputation for customer support that has forced the carbon wheel market to offer the aggressive lifetime warranties that they do today.
There is this idea that if a product is damaged or breaks within a certain distance, it is worse than a product that breaks or wears out eventually. Carbon doesn’t fatigue. If you break one product on your first ride, and another on its 10th or 100th ride it doesn’t always mean the product that broke earlier was inferior. You can drive a new car off a lot and wreck it the first time you pull out onto the street. What is in play here is that the testers for this E-MTB specific spec M735 have exceeded the abilities of the product, but this is not the experience that our customers are having. My next step for Paul would have been to upgrade him to an M9 Series wheel, which is what our World Cup DH teams race on. Do we have some additional work to do in terms of meeting the demands of rider’s like Paul on E-MTBs? Yes, and ENVE is committed to being the best. While this product didn’t pass his test, it is pushing the limits to improve performance and range for E-MTB riders. Regarding the non-E-MTB application of our M7 wheel family, our protective rim strip technology is amazing. If not careful when installing a strip, you can tear it, but it provides unprecedented protection and with its introduction warranty rates between our old M70 and the new M7 Series have been reduced from just over 3% to 1%.
Finally, price. The wheelset in question for this review is a specific build using Chris King hubs. The Chris King hub is spec’d for the E-MTB build because it passes all the durability/reliability requirements for use with E-MTB. These hubs are not inexpensive and drive the cost of the wheelset to where it is. We are looking for ways to make ENVE wheelsets more accessible to more people. As proof, you can see that with the launch of I9 hubs to our M Series offering, we’ve been able to lower the MSRP of an ENVE M Series wheelset to $2550 which is nearly a 10% reduction from what we’ve had to charge in the past.
Thanks again Paul and Pinkbike for letting us share our thoughts.
Wait! This is a $3K wheelset!!
The VP comments are interesting...
Thank you Paul for giving us the opportunity to comment on this experience.
I believe in owning the mistakes that were made on ENVE’s end and would like to clarify or add a different point of view to some of the claims or statements that were made in this review.
First, there is this concept around perfection that consistently comes up whenever anything goes wrong with an ENVE product based on the price of our products. Let’s be clear, perfection is a myth. For ENVE, it’s certainly the goal, but we’ve never pinned a label on ourselves claiming we are perfect. Quite the contrary, we strive daily to be better in all aspects, but it’s a journey and we don’t mask the imperfections of our products behind a façade of filler and paint. That said, it puts that much more responsibility on our QC teams who are people and sometimes people make mistakes. Should Paul have received a rim with a fiber peel and imperfectly drilled spoke holes? Absolutely not. When we screw up, we own it and take care of the customer no questions asked. It is ENVE’s long-standing warranty and leading reputation for customer support that has forced the carbon wheel market to offer the aggressive lifetime warranties that they do today.
There is this idea that if a product is damaged or breaks within a certain distance, it is worse than a product that breaks or wears out eventually. Carbon doesn’t fatigue. If you break one product on your first ride, and another on its 10th or 100th ride it doesn’t always mean the product that broke earlier was inferior. You can drive a new car off a lot and wreck it the first time you pull out onto the street. What is in play here is that the testers for this E-MTB specific spec M735 have exceeded the abilities of the product, but this is not the experience that our customers are having. My next step for Paul would have been to upgrade him to an M9 Series wheel, which is what our World Cup DH teams race on. Do we have some additional work to do in terms of meeting the demands of rider’s like Paul on E-MTBs? Yes, and ENVE is committed to being the best. While this product didn’t pass his test, it is pushing the limits to improve performance and range for E-MTB riders. Regarding the non-E-MTB application of our M7 wheel family, our protective rim strip technology is amazing. If not careful when installing a strip, you can tear it, but it provides unprecedented protection and with its introduction warranty rates between our old M70 and the new M7 Series have been reduced from just over 3% to 1%.
Finally, price. The wheelset in question for this review is a specific build using Chris King hubs. The Chris King hub is spec’d for the E-MTB build because it passes all the durability/reliability requirements for use with E-MTB. These hubs are not inexpensive and drive the cost of the wheelset to where it is. We are looking for ways to make ENVE wheelsets more accessible to more people. As proof, you can see that with the launch of I9 hubs to our M Series offering, we’ve been able to lower the MSRP of an ENVE M Series wheelset to $2550 which is nearly a 10% reduction from what we’ve had to charge in the past.
Thanks again Paul and Pinkbike for letting us share our thoughts.
- Thread starter
- #3
I think this part of ENVE’s response is particularly derogatory to Emtb riders:
“What is in play here is that the testers for this E-MTB specific spec M735 have exceeded the abilities of the product, but this is not the experience that our customers are having. My next step for Paul would have been to upgrade him to an M9 Series wheel, which is what our World Cup DH teams race on ”
Implying that EMTB riders don’t ride hard and that they view their customer base for this model as not pushing their bikes!
Seems like a classic example of jumping into a marketplace and trying to garner sales by marketing a product as Emtb specific without it being anything of the sort
“What is in play here is that the testers for this E-MTB specific spec M735 have exceeded the abilities of the product, but this is not the experience that our customers are having. My next step for Paul would have been to upgrade him to an M9 Series wheel, which is what our World Cup DH teams race on ”
Implying that EMTB riders don’t ride hard and that they view their customer base for this model as not pushing their bikes!
Seems like a classic example of jumping into a marketplace and trying to garner sales by marketing a product as Emtb specific without it being anything of the sort
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Also from their marketing:
".... this wheel is gravity rated for impact damage and features the un-pinchable Protective Rim Strip that will protect your high volume 2.6-2.8″ tires against those ride crushing pinch flats. Built around the most reliable spokes and hubs in the market, this is no overbuilt and heavy wheel, but a lively performance bred upgrade for your e-MTB."
AND
"The M735E wheel, while intended for trail riding, requires a rim that is impact tested to a gravity standard in order to survive daily abuse."
AND what the F is he talking about here?!
"There is this idea that if a product is damaged or breaks within a certain distance, it is worse than a product that breaks or wears out eventually."
".... this wheel is gravity rated for impact damage and features the un-pinchable Protective Rim Strip that will protect your high volume 2.6-2.8″ tires against those ride crushing pinch flats. Built around the most reliable spokes and hubs in the market, this is no overbuilt and heavy wheel, but a lively performance bred upgrade for your e-MTB."
AND
"The M735E wheel, while intended for trail riding, requires a rim that is impact tested to a gravity standard in order to survive daily abuse."
AND what the F is he talking about here?!
"There is this idea that if a product is damaged or breaks within a certain distance, it is worse than a product that breaks or wears out eventually."
They knew they were sending these rims to Paul Aston, a bike tester... Wonder why they chose to send him that specific wheelset, only to tell them later that they were not the correct wheels for his riding.
It frustrates me when companies try to pass the blame elsewhere. Two catastrophic failures and a third rim with imperfections... They should take them off the market and hold their hands up.
Anyway, My DT Swiss HX 1501 are bombproof!
dirt huffer
E*POWAH Master
Just looking at the weight of the wheelset, I could have told you they wouldn't have lasted long on paper... pretty hilarious to see them blow up so fast though. That surprised me
Its 2,143g with hubs - that's not super light weight is it?
Mabman
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
It's funny that with PB I skim the content and read more of the comments.....
It’s 350 grams heavier than the Roval Traverse set I just got from Specialized, ENVE is hilarious......
Karsten
Tim29
Well-known member
I’ve been a year in testing only on ebikes with our carbon rims. After destroying 1-carbon and 3 alum wheels in 2 days. I decided to take a go at carbon wheels as i like the response they give
6 different types of graphite and 3 different temp epoxy resins.
There not unbreakable but they have stood up to Bender’s crazy abuse program, and I’m on my second bike with same set. But i do run cushcore in the rear as it’s really chunky here and i have cut to many new tires in first 5 miles of there life
6 different types of graphite and 3 different temp epoxy resins.
There not unbreakable but they have stood up to Bender’s crazy abuse program, and I’m on my second bike with same set. But i do run cushcore in the rear as it’s really chunky here and i have cut to many new tires in first 5 miles of there life
ENVE wheels are laughable.
If you're not getting them for free anyway.
that $3k E-bike specific (Yeah right) Wheelset is heavier than every one of my Alu rimmed DH wheelsets. None of which cost any more than £300 for the pair
... and they turn out to be weaker and not even put together properly
I think to a lot of companies Emtb is their new road cycling and as such they think they can jump straight in and sell shit loads of crap to middle aged (and older) folk with disposible income who don't really have a clue like many did to the new MAMIL crowd that first took up road cycling in the last decade..
If you're not getting them for free anyway.
that $3k E-bike specific (Yeah right) Wheelset is heavier than every one of my Alu rimmed DH wheelsets. None of which cost any more than £300 for the pair
... and they turn out to be weaker and not even put together properly
I think to a lot of companies Emtb is their new road cycling and as such they think they can jump straight in and sell shit loads of crap to middle aged (and older) folk with disposible income who don't really have a clue like many did to the new MAMIL crowd that first took up road cycling in the last decade..
See the 1900 on the cheap DT swiss wheels that come with a lot of emtbs?
it's a reference to their weight in grams. they're not 1900g but they are sub 2000g
same with their 1700s
Both are pretty durable.
1500g is about as light as you'd want to go with alu rims
and TBH a smooth lightweight rider (sub 10st) who runs sensible pressures could still get away with an alu wheelset that light on an emtb.
I have 1650g alu wheels on my 4X bike and they are plenty stiff enough and hold up fine to how i ride. If it ever uploads I'll post a video of me riding them down some pretty rough Enduro tracks
[edit] It uploaded but unfortunately I used GoProQuick thinking it'd be... er.. quick... it wasn't and the edit (chosen by the app) and quality are super bad (and not in a jonah Hill way)
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All Mountain Coaching
E*POWAH Elite
Wow Enve dropped a ball. My m60hv wheelset is about 1600g and faultless. Makes you seriously wander about all this ebike specific bullshit.
Mabman
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
I had some old CK hubs that were 36h and finding 36h tubeless rims was a chore at the time so I got some ChiBon rims, i35, one 700c and the other 650b. Built them up and within a hundred miles one of the nipples on the 650b rear started to look like it was going to pull through with stress cracks on either side of the hole. I sent some pics to Sobato and they sent me a new rim FOC and didn't want the other back. Was a little sketched out about building and using it but went for it and haven't had an issue since. For $150 ea., the price of some Sapims and my old hubs I am not complaining. But I do check them for other signs of distress....
They will be the last CF wheels I will ever own. Aluminum are plenty good for me and I get them free as long as I use 32h so there is that to consider....
They will be the last CF wheels I will ever own. Aluminum are plenty good for me and I get them free as long as I use 32h so there is that to consider....
Phantomtracer
New Member
Ouch!!!!
I was never a fan of this company. Way overpriced for less performance.
I was never a fan of this company. Way overpriced for less performance.
a lot of how long your wheel set will last in conditions they was testing has gotta be down to tyre choice and pressures also, I think tyre choice on ebikes for aggressive riding is critical, more so than on normal bikes. Your going to crack carbon rims with piss poor tyres or too low pressures on super rocky technical high speed terrain, like your gonna bend alloys ones.
Too many folk nowadays forgo rim protection in favour of comfort and ultimate grip.
look at everyone considering fitting tyre inserts for an example.
Great if you are racing and need/want every ounce of grip/control you can find but for general riding as Barber says do yourself a favour and simply run suppportive enough pressures that you don't ding rims in the first place.
Running super soft compound dual ply tyres at as low a pressure as you can get away with for ultimatre grip used to be reserved only for Elite leve DH racers. it eventually filtered down to every day bods and now it seems like it has to be the norm at trail centres etc.
Thing is. most folk buying this level of kit (tyres/rims) and running those pressures these days aren't actually even decent riders nevermind racing competitively
Work on your smoothness, body positioning and line choice too. Learn to manual, hop and jump and follow the contours of the terrain.
Ebikes don't have to be ridden like a blind wheelbarrow handler.
They're just like ordinary bikes but 14-16lb heavier. (many folk gain that themselves over the winter)
look at everyone considering fitting tyre inserts for an example.
Great if you are racing and need/want every ounce of grip/control you can find but for general riding as Barber says do yourself a favour and simply run suppportive enough pressures that you don't ding rims in the first place.
Running super soft compound dual ply tyres at as low a pressure as you can get away with for ultimatre grip used to be reserved only for Elite leve DH racers. it eventually filtered down to every day bods and now it seems like it has to be the norm at trail centres etc.
Thing is. most folk buying this level of kit (tyres/rims) and running those pressures these days aren't actually even decent riders nevermind racing competitively
Work on your smoothness, body positioning and line choice too. Learn to manual, hop and jump and follow the contours of the terrain.
Ebikes don't have to be ridden like a blind wheelbarrow handler.
They're just like ordinary bikes but 14-16lb heavier. (many folk gain that themselves over the winter)
Tim29
Well-known member
Gary, i think the low pressure started with plus size bikes and bike shops.
I can tell u when i got my bulls ebike the shop said oh 18-24psi is what u should run. I never had a plus bike so set at 22 and almost died on first hard g Turn, and before i got home destroyed back rim and tire.
I’m running 26-32 with a cushcore.
The eddy current is only one i get down to 26.
The dhf/DHR2 evo case and DD case i still have to run 28-34 with Cushcore.
The smallest rear tire i run is 2.6 on 40 internal.
Years ago in my moto days testing with Bridgestone there engineers said if your tearing nobs your to hard and if your rounding nobs your to soft. But i found this to be very true on MTB tires as well. But my ebike is 23lbs over my acoustic.
In 8yrs on my Jekyll i never cut a single tire or put slightest ding in a rim. My ebike i took out 3 rims two days. My evil i only cut one tire but still never took out rear rim.
But my FS3, Levo,integra, Evo45, Kenevo i have destroyed multiple back wheels on each.
In last 2yrs i have easily destroyed 5k in rear wheels and tires.
I didn’t like the feel of cushcore it felt like i had two different air pressures in tire and i never new from one time to next which tire pressure it would react like. But when i put it in Eddie current i really liked the cushcore. So i went wider rims and found the cushcore was more predictable.
But i have no idea why 20lbs has made the rim and tire life so different. I just blame it on how different i must ride that 20lbs. But i def don’t have a rime or reason for why I’m so much harder on rear wheels and tires.
With Eddie in rear on 43 internal and cushcore i haven’t damaged a wheel in 3-4 months now.
I can tell u when i got my bulls ebike the shop said oh 18-24psi is what u should run. I never had a plus bike so set at 22 and almost died on first hard g Turn, and before i got home destroyed back rim and tire.
I’m running 26-32 with a cushcore.
The eddy current is only one i get down to 26.
The dhf/DHR2 evo case and DD case i still have to run 28-34 with Cushcore.
The smallest rear tire i run is 2.6 on 40 internal.
Years ago in my moto days testing with Bridgestone there engineers said if your tearing nobs your to hard and if your rounding nobs your to soft. But i found this to be very true on MTB tires as well. But my ebike is 23lbs over my acoustic.
In 8yrs on my Jekyll i never cut a single tire or put slightest ding in a rim. My ebike i took out 3 rims two days. My evil i only cut one tire but still never took out rear rim.
But my FS3, Levo,integra, Evo45, Kenevo i have destroyed multiple back wheels on each.
In last 2yrs i have easily destroyed 5k in rear wheels and tires.
I didn’t like the feel of cushcore it felt like i had two different air pressures in tire and i never new from one time to next which tire pressure it would react like. But when i put it in Eddie current i really liked the cushcore. So i went wider rims and found the cushcore was more predictable.
But i have no idea why 20lbs has made the rim and tire life so different. I just blame it on how different i must ride that 20lbs. But i def don’t have a rime or reason for why I’m so much harder on rear wheels and tires.
With Eddie in rear on 43 internal and cushcore i haven’t damaged a wheel in 3-4 months now.
Unless you know of a bike shop who was selling plus and fat bike bike tyres around 1997-99 you're wrong.
I personally witnessed Comp 32s and Gazaloddis raced at Ft William around 8-12psi. Not very successfully I might add.
Your mate Josh will remember those days well... well.. .it might depend on bong/head hits over the years
i can't cope with most of the shit a lot of bike shop staff say and tend to avoid all but the few that are owned by mates.
Tim29
Well-known member
Gary, i think the low pressure started with plus size bikes and bike shops.
I can tell u when i got my bulls ebike the shop said oh 18-24psi is what u should run. I never had a plus bike so set at 22 and almost died on first hard g Turn, and before i got home destroyed back rim and tire.
I’m running 26-32 with a cushcore.
The eddy current is only one i get down to 26.
The dhf/DHR2 evo case and DD case i still have to run 28-34 with Cushcore.
The smallest rear tire i run is 2.6 on 40 internal.
Years ago in my moto days testing with Bridgestone there engineers said if your tearing nobs your to hard and if your rounding nobs your to soft. But i found this to be very true on MTB tires as well. But my ebike is 23lbs over my acoustic.
In 8yrs on my Jekyll i never cut a single tire or put slightest ding in a rim. My ebike i took out 3 rims two days. My evil i only cut one tire but still never took out rear rim.
But my FS3, Levo,integra, Evo45, Kenevo i have destroyed multiple back wheels on each.
In last 2yrs i have easily destroyed 5k in rear wheels and tires.
I didn’t like the feel of cushcore it felt like i had two different air pressures in tire and i never new from one time to next which tire pressure it would react like. But when i put it in Eddie current i really liked the cushcore. So i went wider rims and found the cushcore was more predictable.
But i have no idea why 20lbs has made the rim and tire life so different. I just blame it on how different i must ride that 20lbs. But i def don’t have a rime or reason for why I’m so much harder on rear wheels and tires.
With Eddie in rear on 43 internal and cushcore i haven’t damaged a wheel in 3-4 months now.
Most them only been around 3-8 years, and they have a very limited customer base that ride hard.
Everyone i know that rides hard buys frame sets builds there own bikes.
I also see that most the bike shops around northern ca area have a pretty high turnover rate of bike techs.
Gary, when someone makes a comment like i think or maybe, it’s a suggested comment. In no way is it a fact or statement. So starting your response out with your wrong, is harsh and unfriendly.
I can tell u when i got my bulls ebike the shop said oh 18-24psi is what u should run. I never had a plus bike so set at 22 and almost died on first hard g Turn, and before i got home destroyed back rim and tire.
I’m running 26-32 with a cushcore.
The eddy current is only one i get down to 26.
The dhf/DHR2 evo case and DD case i still have to run 28-34 with Cushcore.
The smallest rear tire i run is 2.6 on 40 internal.
Years ago in my moto days testing with Bridgestone there engineers said if your tearing nobs your to hard and if your rounding nobs your to soft. But i found this to be very true on MTB tires as well. But my ebike is 23lbs over my acoustic.
In 8yrs on my Jekyll i never cut a single tire or put slightest ding in a rim. My ebike i took out 3 rims two days. My evil i only cut one tire but still never took out rear rim.
But my FS3, Levo,integra, Evo45, Kenevo i have destroyed multiple back wheels on each.
In last 2yrs i have easily destroyed 5k in rear wheels and tires.
I didn’t like the feel of cushcore it felt like i had two different air pressures in tire and i never new from one time to next which tire pressure it would react like. But when i put it in Eddie current i really liked the cushcore. So i went wider rims and found the cushcore was more predictable.
But i have no idea why 20lbs has made the rim and tire life so different. I just blame it on how different i must ride that 20lbs. But i def don’t have a rime or reason for why I’m so much harder on rear wheels and tires.
With Eddie in rear on 43 internal and cushcore i haven’t damaged a wheel in 3-4 months now.
I know none of the ebike stores i been into where around in the 2000’s.
Most them only been around 3-8 years, and they have a very limited customer base that ride hard.
Everyone i know that rides hard buys frame sets builds there own bikes.
I also see that most the bike shops around northern ca area have a pretty high turnover rate of bike techs.
Gary, when someone makes a comment like i think or maybe, it’s a suggested comment. In no way is it a fact or statement. So starting your response out with your wrong, is harsh and unfriendly.
You aimed your thoughts directly towards me Tim.
Truth is most of the technology that is used in todays trail bikes came from DH bikes. (which in turn borrowed a lot of ideas from moto)
Sorry if you find me harsh.
I'm actually pretty friendly.
You're almost definitely destroying so many rear rims because your riding technique needs work.
20lb extra weight alone isn't the reason. (my body weight can vary as much as that from year to year). and I don't destroy rims. I did when younger and racing DH. but even then not very often, and almost always from taking stupid lines or getting it massively wrong. Plus a lot of parts just weren't as durable in the first place.
Until you change technique and learn to go lighter on the rear and choose better lines and ride smoother your only option is to run stronger tyres, rims and use higher pressures.
Truth is most of the technology that is used in todays trail bikes came from DH bikes. (which in turn borrowed a lot of ideas from moto)
Sorry if you find me harsh.
I'm actually pretty friendly.
You're almost definitely destroying so many rear rims because your riding technique needs work.
20lb extra weight alone isn't the reason. (my body weight can vary as much as that from year to year). and I don't destroy rims. I did when younger and racing DH. but even then not very often, and almost always from taking stupid lines or getting it massively wrong. Plus a lot of parts just weren't as durable in the first place.
Until you change technique and learn to go lighter on the rear and choose better lines and ride smoother your only option is to run stronger tyres, rims and use higher pressures.
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Tim29
Well-known member
I’m not light at 200-203lbs, but 95% of the time i walk back looking for what broke the wheel or cut the tire and i can’t find anything that even remotely should brake a wheel.
There been a couple i earned for sure.
Look at the picture, somewhere from where u can see to where the bike is sitting i broke rear rim and cut the tire from rim to tread in side wall. It’s a fricken fire road and i was going low to mid 20’s mph
I don’t see the small stuff at speed anymore.
But i don’t break them on my clock work with lighter tires
Everyone who has ever worked in a bikeshop knows that most damage comes from "Just riding along"
Taking braking distance into account it could have been any of these edges. Or even something further back up the trail.
There's a distinct sheep line surely you know which line you took no matter how poor your eyesight is these days.
I'm also not sure why a "tester" with your credentials wouldn't walk back and examine the trail to find the culprit so as to not repeat it again.
I know exactly what caused pretty much every tear/pinch puncture I've ever had other than the odd race run where I was too pissed off to care.
There's a distinct sheep line surely you know which line you took no matter how poor your eyesight is these days.
I'm also not sure why a "tester" with your credentials wouldn't walk back and examine the trail to find the culprit so as to not repeat it again.
I know exactly what caused pretty much every tear/pinch puncture I've ever had other than the odd race run where I was too pissed off to care.
Tim29
Well-known member
Lmao, my eye site is only blurred when trail gets rough at speed.
And upclose reading i need cheaters.
I walked it 10 times in disbelief that a 20mm tall rock can cut a tire and destroy a rim just rolling down the trail. Nothing like that ever happen on my 26r or my evil.
But two back wheels and 6 tires on ebike. Dum luck, extra speed, extra weight?
7yrs been riding that trail to get to top bald Mtn
The only bike i have flatted or damaged a wheel is ebike.
And upclose reading i need cheaters.
I walked it 10 times in disbelief that a 20mm tall rock can cut a tire and destroy a rim just rolling down the trail. Nothing like that ever happen on my 26r or my evil.
But two back wheels and 6 tires on ebike. Dum luck, extra speed, extra weight?
7yrs been riding that trail to get to top bald Mtn
The only bike i have flatted or damaged a wheel is ebike.
I so miss the EX823 36 front 32 rear wheelset I had built for my old Bionicon mountain bike. When the chainstay cracked on that bike after 11 years I gave the wheels away and they are still being ridden today. Mavic makes an eDeemax wheelset which has a similar rim but I'm afraid of the aluminum spokes they use.
Any suggestions for a good (non-carbon) rim in a more modern width?
I steer clear of carbon as I know I will destroy it. It’s a bit like foam grips, they are nice but last like 3 minutes. If I can’t throw the bike over a 50ft cliff, walk to the bottom and ride away hassle free, then it ain’t for me.
I think thats pretty fair. The riding style of e-bikes is a bell curve, in the middle you have lots of people driving to swinley every weekend to try and beat the strava time around the blue, riding trail centres and maybe some ‘off piste’ trails at the FoD, at the lower end you have the guy who bought a Kenevo to ride to work, and at the top end you have people like @Gary and Wiltshire Warrior shredding it on the mountains of Scotland and Wiltshire.
These wheels are designed for the vast majority of the bell curve, who will probably never break them.
Obviously I fall into the extreme category, so I wont be buying these shitty fragile wheels.
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