Orbea rise - motor dead after firmware update

[Mteam]

Posting on behalf of a mate with a brand new rise.

A mate just got his new rise m20 today, all was fine, all working OK, but he attempted to update the firmware using the shimano phone app, but now the motor is dead. Anyone got any ideas?

The bike appears to power up, ie the various leds on the little shimano display light up, and the controller appears to switch through the modes fine, but there is no power from the motor ie no assist, and the phone app won't connect to it any more.

Thanks

 

[Cavi]

what about one of the programs like st unlocker that could downgrade the firmware then update again?

 

[aarfeldt]

Just visit your dealer - they will fix it for free.

 

[jerry]

all was fine, all working OK

Why touch it then

 

[Mteam]

what about one of the programs like st unlocker that could downgrade the firmware then update again?

yeah tried that - no joy.

Just visit your dealer - they will fix it for free.

yep, looks like that is the only option.

Why touch it then

because when he connected the app it said there was a firmware update available and it should be installed - he'll know better next time.

Think shimano need to get their act together on this - cant have the official app bricking brand new bikes before they've even been ridden. Its pretty amateur ish.

 

[Pdoz]

Think shimano need to get their act together on this - cant have the official app bricking brand new bikes before they've even been ridden. Its pretty amateur ish.

nah, it's a cunning plot to get you back to the shop buying more stuff.

 

[Mteam]

update :

friend took bike into shimano premier dealer this morning - they tried to sort it but cant, so now they're sending the motor back to shimano.

 

[chrismechmaster]

Why touch it then

I totally agree my rise and Levo have never been updated by myself and a phone since I purchased them i think there is to much of a risk it can fail it’s simply to unstable if the bikes working why update them
Every time I update my iPhone I sit there with fingers crossed it will not brick wouldn’t risk it with bikes worth thousands

 

[RustyIron]

Back when I was working, it always made me happier to install the latest and greatest soflware for all my computers and motor drives. Sometimes the new software would fix issues I knew about, and more often it would address issues that I didn't even know existed. Usually things work out fine, but there are those times when things just totally fall apart. But I look at the risk as part of the evolutionary process. I suppose that's why I like to keep my eMTB fresh with the latest upgrades.

Only once have I had an anomaly with a Shimano upgrade. It failed, so I tried again. It failed again, but that failure resulted in a permanent error code. It was late, so the only options were to go inside and weep, or keep trying. After several more attempts, the upgrade succeeded. So when I hear of situations like this, I always wonder if it would work after just one more attempt.

 

[Mteam]

So when I hear of situations like this, I always wonder if it would work after just one more attempt.

Tried many times at home, couldnt get it to work, so took it to shimano dealer, who tried many times with their laptop - including calling up shimano and having them try various things over the phone , but it didnt work. so the motor was removed from the bike and sent to shimano. the motor (not sure if its a totally new motor, or the original one with the firmware correctly loaded) is due back on Tuesday next week

 

[Dirtyrig]

Same thing just happened to me on my M20, updated firmware and it said it failed, then tries again and again but keeps failing. Etube app will not go any further. I can turn the bike on, change the mode and connect with my Garmin, but when you pedal there is no power. Is there a way to fix this on our own? Any way to upload the firmware through wired connection?

 

[RustyIron]

Is there a way to fix this on our own? Any way to upload the firmware through wired connection?

Your shop probably has the computer, software, and cable to do that. If memory serves me correctly, when I ran into the problem, I powered everything down by unplugging the battery. The system is still powered up even when you turn it off by the switch, so in my head it made sense to force a complete power-down. The firmware upload worked after that, but I can't be certain if the reset was the cause, or if the success was just random. It can't hurt to try. I understand that disconnecting the battery on the Orbea is a little more complicated, but I don't know the specifics. Good luck.

 

[Mungalot]

Your shop probably has the computer, software, and cable to do that. If memory serves me correctly, when I ran into the problem, I powered everything down by unplugging the battery. The system is still powered up even when you turn it off by the switch, so in my head it made sense to force a complete power-down. The firmware upload worked after that, but I can't be certain if the reset was the cause, or if the success was just random. It can't hurt to try. I understand that disconnecting the battery on the Orbea is a little more complicated, but I don't know the specifics. Good luck.

After phone conversation w orbea directly here in Colorado and my local dealer, They both confirmed that they have the exact same tools as the consumer. I.e. the consumer can do the exact same troubleshooting as the shop or orbea in Boulder! Apart from taking the motor out and sending back to shimano.
Unlike the specialized dealers that have some special crappy laptop w specialized software installed.

they both stated it’s a shimano affair. They rule the roost. And indeed they do, their products are awesome.

 

[RustyIron]

After phone conversation w orbea directly here in Colorado and my local dealer,
They both confirmed that they have the exact same tools as the consumer.

Your Orbea dealer told you they can't help when your motor dies?
That's pretty awful, but at least now you know who you can't trust to work on your bike.

After my homeboy got a new Rise and his attempts at a firmware upgrade resulted in bricking the bike, he took it down the street to the local bike shop. They plugged in their laptop and he was out the door in five minutes.

SHIMANO PC Linkage Device Micro USB Port | SHIMANO BIKE-US

SHIMANO's SM-PCE02 PC Linkage Device for STEPS and DI2 groups is used to check system functions, connections, and errors as well as update firmware and customize functions. The SM-PCE02 connects through a Micro USB port.

bike.shimano.com

 

[Funks]

Same thing just happened to me on my M20, updated firmware and it said it failed, then tries again and again but keeps failing. Etube app will not go any further. I can turn the bike on, change the mode and connect with my Garmin, but when you pedal there is no power. Is there a way to fix this on our own? Any way to upload the firmware through wired connection?

Is it failing because of the special Orbea RS firmware? Maybe the app doesn't know how to deal with it (or improperly coded that it thinks the official firmware is an upgrade?)

I have a Hydro that came with the 85nm firmware instead of the RS and I was able to update it just fine with the Shimano e-Tube Project (after the app updated, I put the phone in airplane mode)

 

[Dirtyrig]

Is it failing because of the special Orbea RS firmware? Maybe the app doesn't know how to deal with it (or improperly coded that it thinks the official firmware is an upgrade?)

I have a Hydro that came with the 85nm firmware instead of the RS and I was able to update it just fine with the Shimano e-Tube Project (after the app updated, I put the phone in airplane mode)

I'm not sure? The only place the firmware update takes place is in the Shimano Etube App, so I can only assume that Shimano takes the RS version into consideration or else there would have been constant problems in the past with anyone updating the firmware. I'm waiting for Orbea to respond to me, lets see what they have to say.

 

[Dirtyrig]

Your Orbea dealer told you they can't help when your motor dies?
That's pretty awful, but at least now you know who you can't trust to work on your bike.

After my homeboy got a new Rise and his attempts at a firmware upgrade resulted in bricking the bike, he took it down the street to the local bike shop. They plugged in their laptop and he was out the door in five minutes.

SHIMANO PC Linkage Device Micro USB Port | SHIMANO BIKE-US

SHIMANO's SM-PCE02 PC Linkage Device for STEPS and DI2 groups is used to check system functions, connections, and errors as well as update firmware and customize functions. The SM-PCE02 connects through a Micro USB port.

bike.shimano.com

Thanks for this! I did look into this, but the SM-PCE02 does not have a E-tube port connector, so I think I have to drop the motor to plug it in. I've read somewhere that there is an adapter that can be plugged into the E-tube port wire that connects to the Shimano EW-EN100 Junction, which is near the handlebar. If this is correct, then I wouldn't have to drop the motor. Trying to find a shop near me that may have the SM-PCE02, so far no luck.

 

[Shjay]

You can’t plug the PCE02 into the EP8 motor as they are the smaller fitments, you can on the E7000 & E8000!
I used an SMJC-41 to plug the PCE02 into with an extra cable

 

[Dirtyrig]

You can’t plug the PCE02 into the EP8 motor as they are the smaller fitments, you can on the E7000 & E8000!
I used an SMJC-41 to plug the PCE02 into with an extra cable

Yes!! This is what I was looking for. So I assume I can just unplug the wire coming from the motor that goes into the Shimano EW-EN100 Junction then plug it into the SMJC-41 then to the PCE02?

 

[Shjay]

Yes So need
PCE02
SMJC-41
1 EW-SD50 wire

 

[Funks]

Yes So need
PCE02
SMJC-41
1 EW-SD50 wire

There a reason why the SMJC-41 is needed? Can't use just use an EW-AD305 conversion adapter instead?

If one wanted to drop the motor - hook up the COMPUTER -> PCE02 (has an EW-SD50 cable end) -> EW-AD305 adapter -> EW-SD300 cable -> EP8 Motor.



For the Rise's that came with the EW-EN100, I'm assuming one can disconnect the SW-E7000-L (switch) from the EW-EN100, then

COMPUTER -> PCE02 (has an EW-SD50 cable end) -> EW-EN100 -> EP8 Motor

My H30 came with the SC-E7000 Display, and it has a couple of extra ports (so no need to disconnect the switch).

COMPUTER -> PCE02 (has an EW-SD50 cable end) -> SC-E7000 -> EP8 Motor

 

[Dirtyrig]

There a reason why the SMJC-41 is needed? Can't use just use an EW-AD305 conversion adapter instead?

If one wanted to drop the motor - hook up the COMPUTER -> PCE02 (has an EW-SD50 cable end) -> EW-AD305 adapter -> EW-SD300 cable -> EP8 Motor.

View attachment 78854


My H30 came with the SC-E7000 Display, pretty sure I can just unplug the SW-E7000-L (switch) from the SC-E7000, then

COMPUTER -> PCE02 (has an EW-SD50 cable end) -> SC-E7000 -> EP8 Motor

For the Rise's that came with the EW-EN100, I'm assuming one can disconnect the SW-E7000-L (switch) from the EW-EN100, then

COMPUTER -> PCE02 (has an EW-SD50 cable end) -> EW-EN100 -> EP8 Motor

Thanks!

 

[Shjay]

If it comes with the SC-E7000 display then plug the PCE02 straight into the display otherwise you need the SMJC-41 junction box otherwise if plug into motor it will only bring motor up on diagnostics, same as Di2 you don’t plug directly into shifter or rear derailleur unless your running diagnostics solely on that part! Need junction box & extra cable to run diagnostics on whole bike! Hope makes sense

 

[Funks]

If it comes with the SC-E7000 display then plug the PCE02 straight into the display otherwise you need the SMJC-41 junction box otherwise if plug into motor it will only bring motor up on diagnostics, same as Di2 you don’t plug directly into shifter or rear derailleur unless your running diagnostics solely on that part! Need junction box & extra cable to run diagnostics on whole bike! Hope makes sense

The use-case here is how to re-flash the motor (and not really diagnostics of the entire system). Additionally, it's about the Orbea rise as well, so rear derailleurs and other components are not relevant.

For most rise users (who have the carbon, or the alloy version) - the only thing they really need is PCE02 (and nothing else), and the procedure is basically to unplug the SW-E7000-L switch from either EW-EN1000, then plug the PCE02 to where you unplugged the switch. If you have the SC-E7000, then plug in the PCE02 onto any of the extra ports on the SC-E7000 (no need to disconnect the switch). Basically, there's no no need to take out the motor, or the fork out.

Before buying a PCE02 though, might be a good idea to drop the motor, disconnect the power cable to the motor (give it a minute or so), then plug it back in and see if the motor gets out of firmware update mode and boots up with the old one. This time, try the flash again with the phone and making sure you are in airplane mode before doing so.

 

[aarfeldt]

Just for info - PCE01 will also work.

 

[Shjay]

Thanks for telling me something I already know lol

The use-case here is how to re-flash the motor (and not really diagnostics of the entire system). Additionally, it's about the Orbea rise as well, so rear derailleurs and other components are not relevant.

For most rise users (who have the carbon, or the alloy version) - the only thing they really need is PCE02 (and nothing else), and the procedure is basically to unplug the SW-E7000-L switch from either EW-EN1000, then plug the PCE02 to where you unplugged the switch. If you have the SC-E7000, then plug in the PCE02 onto any of the extra ports on the SC-E7000 (no need to disconnect the switch). Basically, there's no no need to take out the motor, or the fork out.

Before buying a PCE02 though, might be a good idea to drop the motor, disconnect the power cable to the motor (give it a minute or so), then plug it back in and see if the motor gets out of firmware update mode and boots up with the old one. This time, try the flash again with the phone and making sure you are in airplane mode before doing so.

 

[Nebo1ss]

When updating the firmware using my phone with the ETUBE app i always switch the phone into airplane mode. i do this to avoid any calls, text messages, emails etc potentially interrupting the update. There is no need to be connected to the network because the updated firmware actually sits on the phone.

 

[Dirtyrig]

The use-case here is how to re-flash the motor (and not really diagnostics of the entire system). Additionally, it's about the Orbea rise as well, so rear derailleurs and other components are not relevant.

For most rise users (who have the carbon, or the alloy version) - the only thing they really need is PCE02 (and nothing else), and the procedure is basically to unplug the SW-E7000-L switch from either EW-EN1000, then plug the PCE02 to where you unplugged the switch. If you have the SC-E7000, then plug in the PCE02 onto any of the extra ports on the SC-E7000 (no need to disconnect the switch). Basically, there's no no need to take out the motor, or the fork out.

Before buying a PCE02 though, might be a good idea to drop the motor, disconnect the power cable to the motor (give it a minute or so), then plug it back in and see if the motor gets out of firmware update mode and boots up with the old one. This time, try the flash again with the phone and making sure you are in airplane mode before doing so.

Here's a kicker, I just got a email from Orbea asking them the same question and this is what they responded:

"A dealer's login and special software is needed to complete the update."

Firmware updates for the Orbea Rise should NOT be done through the E-Tube app. It's supposed to be done only at a authorized dealer. I think the reason is the Shimano E-Tube app updates only a normal EP8 motor, but the rise has a specially developed firmware "RS", which you guys know already and if you check the E-Tube app firmware version it says DU-EP800, it does not say DU-EP800-RS, so this is a Shimano screwup with the E-Tube app, it should not give option to update RS motors!

That sucks.

 

[Nebo1ss]

Here's a kicker, I just got a email from Orbea asking them the same question and this is what they responded:

"A dealer's login and special software is needed to complete the update."

Firmware updates for the Orbea Rise should NOT be done through the E-Tube app. It's supposed to be done only at a authorized dealer. I think the reason is the Shimano E-Tube app updates only a normal EP8 motor, but the rise has a specially developed firmware "RS", which you guys know already and if you check the E-Tube app firmware version it says DU-EP800, it does not say DU-EP800-RS, so this is a Shimano screwup with the E-Tube app, it should not give option to update RS motors!

That sucks.

That is interesting i wonder what this means in real life. I updated my RISE from 4.15 to 4.16 from 4.16 to 4.17 and most recently from 4.17 to 4.18. Never experienced any problems. Is this saying that my motor is now running NON RS firmware?

 

[Funks]

That is interesting i wonder what this means in real life. I updated my RISE from 4.15 to 4.16 from 4.16 to 4.17 and most recently from 4.17 to 4.18. Never experienced any problems. Is this saying that my motor is now running NON RS firmware?

Easiest way to verify is to connect the E-TUBE Project App via your phone to your bike.

Go to Assist Customize -

Select Profile 1

Take a screenshot of ECO, TRAIL, and BOOST (pls post it up here).

Select Profile 2

Take a screenshot of ECO, TRAIL, and BOOST (pls post it up here).

Check to see if you are allowed to go higher than 60 NM (Max Torque) - if the app allows you to go 85NM then you probably have the stock EP8 firmware hence the ability to update it in-app. A bunch of Rise Hydro's (Alloy Model) shipped with the stock firmware, mine included. Only way to get it re-flashed to the right firmware (RS) is by getting Shimano to do it.

Honestly - who knows if this was issue was strictly limited to the Alloy versions, a bunch of Carbon versions may have been shipped with the wrong firmware as well.


Either that or there are limit-parameters that can be set on the motors config which is not overwritten by a firmware upgrade.