That's just cruel, I've always wanted a 40 series land cruiser ..
Orbea Rise EMTB - 16.2KG Superlight
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
What I don't understand is if it's just a normal ep8 motor but with software restricting the torque to 60nm, why don't they give you an option to run it in full fat 85nm mode, they could include warnings in the manual about the battery running down v fast etc, but it would give you, the customer, the option to have a levo sl style lite ebike bike or a full fat style bike with the same range as a regular full fat bike if using the range extender battery, then it would be the absolute best of both worlds.
There must be a reason why they haven't done that, but can't think why. The only thing that springs to mind is that maybe the small battery can't supply a large enough electrical current to give 85nm torque.
Any ideas?
There must be a reason why they haven't done that, but can't think why. The only thing that springs to mind is that maybe the small battery can't supply a large enough electrical current to give 85nm torque.
Any ideas?
I hope the battery doesnt drain too quickly. That's going to be a amp hungry motor with a small fuel tank.
battery Cells have a discharge 'C' rating which limits how many amps can be pulled from them without too much voltage drop. As the voltage of the battery drains there becomes much more chance of it hitting its low voltage cutoff when the motor tries to take the amps it needs to create power/torque so the battery voltage drops significantly as it struggles to supply. Especially during acceleration/peak performance.
the way around this is usually to give the battery pack more amp hours (cells in parallel) and higher draining cells.
battery Cells have a discharge 'C' rating which limits how many amps can be pulled from them without too much voltage drop. As the voltage of the battery drains there becomes much more chance of it hitting its low voltage cutoff when the motor tries to take the amps it needs to create power/torque so the battery voltage drops significantly as it struggles to supply. Especially during acceleration/peak performance.
the way around this is usually to give the battery pack more amp hours (cells in parallel) and higher draining cells.
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- Thread starter
- #66
It’s a 36v pack ?
Arh ok. So 10ah. Not sure if that will be 2 or 3 cells in parallel. I don't think they have 5ah 21700 cell yet do they?
I wonder if its the same battery as the Rotwild 375? Another bike that has gone under the radar on here, similar to Orbea but with the full fat EP8 and circa 18kg, though quite a bit burlier build
www.rotwild.com
ROTWILD R.E375 PRO The daredevil
Dynamik, Effizienz, Performance und eigenständige technische Lösungen haben ROTWILD Mountainbikes von Beginn an zu begehrten Begleitern auf den Trails und Rennstrecken dieser Welt gemacht.
www.rotwild.com
Eddy Current
E*POWAH Master
I wonder if its the same battery as the Rotwild 375? Another bike that has gone under the radar on here, similar to Orbea but with the full fat EP8 and circa 18kg, though quite a bit burlier build
ROTWILD R.E375 PRO The daredevil
Dynamik, Effizienz, Performance und eigenständige technische Lösungen haben ROTWILD Mountainbikes von Beginn an zu begehrten Begleitern auf den Trails und Rennstrecken dieser Welt gemacht.
View attachment 42628
To me is more interesting than the Orbea. 2kgs more with proper enduro stuff and full power. ”better” geo too ... Orbea need to rethink the 60nm restrictiction.
OK. It looks like a nice bike. Some models sold out for 8 months already. But is it really that special weight wise?
To get to the unicorn weight figure you get.
* 2 pot brakes with too small rotors.
* 140/140 suspension with x-country/all mountain emphasis.
* weak tyres with x-country tread.
* no display.
* non removable main battery and a range extender too big to carry on a plane. (a'la Levo SL)
Plus they've taken a good motor and artificially hobbled it (apart from the rattle), rather than making it a user selectable profile, which you likely will never be able to legally turn into a full fat motor, even though it is one. I can see a lot of people getting one of these and always having that nagging feeling that they want more from the motor because they know it can. That power band is really narrow and reminds me of what Fazua was like before black pepper. I think it's there to make the range decent because at 60NM going full gas over a wide cadence band would crush that battery pretty quickly. I think that many will be riding with the 1.4kg extender pretty regularly if they're chasing full fat bikes uphill.
Some who spec the bike up a bit to 4 pot brakes, change out the rotors/tyres and add 10/20mm to the fork will still end up with a bike at over 18kg. Same territory as a Levo/eZesty/Hellium. My eZesty with 160mm Lyrik Ultimate, XTR 4 pot/203mm, AXS 12 speed and 2.6 Assegai's is 18.6kg. Yep the battery is smaller but I have two spares and my bike doesn't rattle.
I totally get the Orbea might RIDE really well. But that's geo, design and handling. It looks like a great bike. If I didn't have a light weight option this one would really tempt me. I just don't see why the weight or lack thereof being special when comparing to the eZesty, SL or Knox. It's nice to have another light weight option though and it is pretty.
How does the EP8 compare to the Fazua and Levo SL motors over the speed limiter? My old E8000 definately has drag over the limit compared to the Fazua. I wonder how the EP8 will go at speed?
Gordon
To get to the unicorn weight figure you get.
* 2 pot brakes with too small rotors.
* 140/140 suspension with x-country/all mountain emphasis.
* weak tyres with x-country tread.
* no display.
* non removable main battery and a range extender too big to carry on a plane. (a'la Levo SL)
Plus they've taken a good motor and artificially hobbled it (apart from the rattle), rather than making it a user selectable profile, which you likely will never be able to legally turn into a full fat motor, even though it is one. I can see a lot of people getting one of these and always having that nagging feeling that they want more from the motor because they know it can. That power band is really narrow and reminds me of what Fazua was like before black pepper. I think it's there to make the range decent because at 60NM going full gas over a wide cadence band would crush that battery pretty quickly. I think that many will be riding with the 1.4kg extender pretty regularly if they're chasing full fat bikes uphill.
Some who spec the bike up a bit to 4 pot brakes, change out the rotors/tyres and add 10/20mm to the fork will still end up with a bike at over 18kg. Same territory as a Levo/eZesty/Hellium. My eZesty with 160mm Lyrik Ultimate, XTR 4 pot/203mm, AXS 12 speed and 2.6 Assegai's is 18.6kg. Yep the battery is smaller but I have two spares and my bike doesn't rattle.
I totally get the Orbea might RIDE really well. But that's geo, design and handling. It looks like a great bike. If I didn't have a light weight option this one would really tempt me. I just don't see why the weight or lack thereof being special when comparing to the eZesty, SL or Knox. It's nice to have another light weight option though and it is pretty.
How does the EP8 compare to the Fazua and Levo SL motors over the speed limiter? My old E8000 definately has drag over the limit compared to the Fazua. I wonder how the EP8 will go at speed?
Gordon
maynard
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Well obviously rotwild haven't paid there media dues $$$$$$$ . What's the weight on the Rotwild ?I wonder if its the same battery as the Rotwild 375? Another bike that has gone under the radar on here, similar to Orbea but with the full fat EP8 and circa 18kg, though quite a bit burlier build
ROTWILD R.E375 PRO The daredevil
Dynamik, Effizienz, Performance und eigenständige technische Lösungen haben ROTWILD Mountainbikes von Beginn an zu begehrten Begleitern auf den Trails und Rennstrecken dieser Welt gemacht.
View attachment 42628
maynard
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Me likes the rotwild . Not the price tag though. Me thinks I'll need to wait 12 months to able to afford one of these new " lightweight " ebikes .
WTF is with the marketing? Because it's light it doesn't need EMTB parts?? FFS! I really dislike that crap. NONE of my bikes have "EMTB" parts on them. You put my 95kg arse on any EMTB and 5kg in bike weight matters for bugger all when it comes to what parts to spec.....
what they should have said is "we weight weenied every part to get to a weight that looks great on a marketing sheet. Most of you will ride a heavier bike than we advertise."
Gordon
what they should have said is "we weight weenied every part to get to a weight that looks great on a marketing sheet. Most of you will ride a heavier bike than we advertise."
Gordon
Y'know how Orbea already make super lightweight sub 10kg FS XC bikes for lightweight fast nimble riders and 3kg or so heavier heavier trail and 5kg enduro bikes for overweight middle aged weekend riders and actual fast enduro riders?
and you know how because of the battery and motor etc. Ebikes are roughly 7kg heavier than their normal trail and enduro bike counterparts?
erm... well... how else did you imagine they were going to make an FS Emtb 5kg lighter than the normal overbuilt emtb with only around a kilo and a half (if that) saving from a smaller lighter battery and newer EP8 motor?
Their marketing is agreeing with your revelation that Emtbs don't actually need Ebike parts. (lets be honest here, Ebike parts other than motor parts are a myth anyway)
They haven't particualrly weightweenied the spec. The build on the bike isn't actually all that disimilar to the Orbea occam trail bike's build.
I don't really know how to spell this out to you bud but 5kg alters how a bike rides (and can be ridden) quite considerably.
It's not my bag either though. but not because of my weight.
rb.
Active member
What I’m waiting for is a Kenevo SL. In the meantime I’m currently debating if I want to cancel my order on the New Commencal with the EP8 motor and wait for one of these “light” ebikes.
then it wont weight 16.2 kilos. In fact add the pedals and the range extender at you will be at 18 plus kilos.... oh and your motor will rattle...
nasamorpheus
Member
Really guys joke aside, these bikes really cost almost like new cars? Car weight a ton of material. I won't participate in this madness any more but of course you still can. I just read that Alutech Releases €16,000 eMTB cmon ... Madness .. I bought new Yaris Hybrid car for that money and can't accept fact that those at Alutech think their bike is worth that money. It's a bike not rocket science. I'm out good bye.
It was nice but it's too expensive for me, it makes me cry.
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The Alutech is really a prototype of their milling tech that they are offering to customers and marketing exercise more than anything else, they do a normal version of the Fanes made from regular alloy and its a third of the price:Really guys joke aside, these bikes really cost almost like new cars? Car weight a ton of material. I won't participate in this madness any more but of course you still can. I just read that Alutech Releases €16,000 eMTB cmon ... Madness .. I bought new Yaris Hybrid car for that money and can't accept fact that those at Alutech think their bike is worth that money. It's a bike not rocket science. I'm out good bye.
Randy
Member
It would be nice to see the Wh/kg ratio improving at some point. All these internal packs still look like a retrograde step compared to the 8010 Shimano pack. Shimano have gone to all this trouble knocking almost 1/2kg off the ep8 and the internal packs add it straight back on again. 375Wh just aint enough - that's only 30-40mins of fun flat out :-(
nasamorpheus
Member
Kawasaki Z650 :: Avtonet :: you dont understand language on this site but you will understand price and what I am saying maybe.. or not... price in the right corner
A motorbike is not an EMTB, and vice versa, totally different scales of manufacturing, supply costs etc etc.
All high end bikes, not just emtb's are stupidly expensive, but no one is making anyone pay 6.5k for a decent EMTB, you can pick up one for sub 3k
All high end bikes, not just emtb's are stupidly expensive, but no one is making anyone pay 6.5k for a decent EMTB, you can pick up one for sub 3k
Spot on. My Stilus was £2,600 & it's more or less a great bike. I realise they're fairy dust in terms of supply but the comparison is garbage. You can buy a banger for a grand or splurge £100k on a Porsche 911, the choice is down to your means.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
The whole bike with sensible tyres sounds and looks like my Focus Jam2 2019 (20.4kg).
SquireRides
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
AND stuff is just going to get cheaper. The car industry predicts cells will drop to half their current price in the next few years, and looking at the number of ebikes locally, the R&D on motors will be paid-up pretty quickly leading to a few 10s% reduction in price there too.
The uplift in cost for similar spec analogue to eMTB should be around +£300 for the battery and maybe £400-500 for the DU.
There'll always be niche or cutting edge ebikes, but we'll see really good sub-£2k eMTBs in the next 5 years.
Pdoz
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
They were great bikes for the time , but even the lowest spec orbea has higher spec components that the current top of range jam 2 @ 25 kg - and a similar price to an orbea! I briefly got excited when focus advertised a shimano ep8 with small battery , but it's disappeared from the Australian website .
nasamorpheus
Member
Motorbike is much more complicated ,....true emtb is for robbing people. I have cube stereo for 3.5k and lets be honest.. its pretty crap. Not worth that kind of a money.
Its the usual trade off, it looks like the orbea is approx 1.5kg - 2kg lighter than the focus when compared like for like (or as close as can be) , but with the orbea you cant increase the torque on the motor to match the focus. So decide where your priorities lie, a 2kg lighter bike that has lower torque or a heavier bike with higher torque but can be ridden in an eco mode and can probably match the lighter bike for range
I'd probably go with the higher torque/heavier bike when the difference is only 2kg, but there must come a point where the weight difference is too great and people would rather choose the lower torque lighter bike.
Having the choice is good though - I'd like a much smaller lighter battery for my bike (orbea wild fs) when just going for a quick ride after work where I dont need the full 625wh, but thats not really an option right now, but if there was a say 300wh 1.5kg battery I could use that'd be great , and if it had to reduce the max torque by 30% in order to hit that weight, well, that wouldnt be much of a hardship for quick rides after work, as long as I had the choice of putting in the big battery and getting the full torque when I wanted it.
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