Orbea Rise EMTB - 16.2KG Superlight

[Gary]

" i think i'd be more inclined to take a gravel bike .

Au contraire.
A lot of the mtb riding in the Surrey Hills looks fucking awesome. It just doesn't really warrant DH World Cup head angles.

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

There ya go ...

View attachment 43014

Awesome!

 

[Dpca10]

So I think so much of the Levo SL Orbea Rise debate will focus on can the Rise replicate the non ebike feel of the SL. You can yap all day about specs power etc... but specialized have created some voodoo with the SL that makes it not feel like an ebike, it feels like a regular bike and you are super powered. (No I don’t work for specialized I’m just impressed with the low friction system and software power integration. The SL isn’t perfect but pushing past the limit or peddling on eco you feel no drag whatsoever. This definitely isn’t the case on the other Shimano motors I’ve ridden. We’ll see

 

[paquo]

. It just seems crazy to me to not give people the option of a full fat ebike experience

that would require heavier battery(s) to keep the range and would detract from the handling, 60nm is twice the sl competition, a lot of people don't really use the full power in the ff type , they even say the idea behind this bike involves more rider input

 

[Gary]

The SL isn’t perfect but pushing past the limit or peddling on eco you feel no drag whatsoever. This definitely isn’t the case on the other Shimano motors I’ve ridden.

And what tyres were those Shimano motored bikes running?
You don't feel drag on a shimano motor above the assist limit either. What you actually feel is heavy draggy tyres and 50lb+ overall bike weight.
The SL has neither of these crutches.

 

[R120]

Au contraire.
A lot of the mtb riding in the Surrey Hills looks fucking awesome. It just doesn't really warrant DH World Cup head angles.

Exactly, IMO the best type of bike for the Surrey Hills, and the majority of UK riding unless you solidly ride park, is an "aggressive" trail bike. Right now if I was looking for a regular mtb to ride round here it would be something along the lines of the Commencal Meta TR, Stumpjumper Evo, or Privateer 141.

I love my E-Sommet, but it monsters most of the trails round here, and TBH actually makes some of them less challenging to ride as it can plough on when normal bikes would get pinged about - not a bad thing, but limits the fun you can have after a while when line choice doesn't have consequences. Also after 3 hours of riding hard on it my upper body is fecked, due to the weight, I am not the broadest of chest or arm, and upper body strength rather than range is what limits how long I can go, so anything lighter is welcome.

Thats why more than anything else I would like to see Specialized come out with an SL version of this, thats close to 18.5kg.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere and I've missed it ... from @knut7

 

[Gary]

Exactly, IMO the best type of bike for the Surrey Hills, and the majority of UK riding unless you solidly ride park, is an "aggressive" trail bike. Right now if I was looking for a regular mtb to ride round here it would be something along the lines of the Commencal Meta TR, Stumpjumper Evo, or Privateer 141.

I love my E-Sommet, but it monsters most of the trails round here, and TBH actually makes some of them less challenging to ride as it can plough on when normal bikes would get pinged about - not a bad thing, but limits the fun you can have after a while when line choice doesn't have consequences.

Thats why more than anything else I would like to see Specialized come out with an SL version of this, thats close to 18.5kg.

View attachment 43028

I've ridden all 3 of those..
I couldn't stand the 141s super steep seat angle.
coming straight from the Esommet (swapped bikes mid ride with a mate) the Meta I just felt very natural on straight away.
The Stumpy felt like a spesh... I honestly don't know how they do it

Were I after a 29" Trail/Enduro bike right now I'd genuinely find it hard to look past the 2021 Mega. But obvz I'm not in Surrey

 

[R120]

Yeah I just dont think you need a full on Enduro bike round here, you need a pumped up trail bike and not much more if you want to combine going fast and having fun, though there's enough old boys on xc bikes who would show most of us a clean pair of heels down many of the trails. A lot of the trails are now 20 plus years old in one form or another, and built for short sharp shreds than high speed foot out hooning

 

[flash]

And what tyres were those Shimano motored bikes running?
You don't feel drag on a shimano motor above the assist limit either. What you actually feel is heavy draggy tyres and 50lb+ overall bike weight.
The SL has neither of these crutches.

Not to insult you but if this is the case, why do Shimano advertise the EP8 as having 38% (ish??) less drag than the E8000? Having ridden my hard tail E8000 bike with faster tyres on tarmac I would say there is drag but it's not as big a factor as the weight and tyre choice.

On my E160 and e-Zesty that have the same tyres in the same width there's a noticable difference even on a flat gravel road above the limiter. Even Fazua claim a factor of 10 watts (I think they said a normal bike is 5 watts from the BB) with their motor and most consider it to be about the same as the SL when it comes to drag.

Gordon

 

[Gary]

@R120 it does also depend to some extent on how you set your bike up.
My Sommet is set-up fairly stiff and poppy and the low grip high(er) pressure tyres mean even with 170/160mm it's really not a plow bike.
infact ride it like that and you'll be spat off.

 

[Gary]

Not to insult you but if this is the case, why do Shimano advertise the EP8 as having 38% (ish??) less drag than the E8000? Having ridden my hard tail E8000 bike with faster tyres on tarmac I would say there is drag but it's not as big a factor as the weight and tyre choice.

Remove your chain and spin your crank arms.
38% of fuck all is fairly easy to claim

 

[b45her]

its actually 17.74 kg now ive weighed it a number of times

Photo would be awesome!

It is a small so a med or large will probably add a couple of hundred grams I’d imagine.

 

[westcoastmtbr]

Same for me. I want the SL with the new Stumpy EVO Geo. The SL geo is absolutely dated feeling. It’s the one thing holding the bike back.

Couldn't agree any more Specialized took a shortcut on the frame GEO and didn't update it with the marketplace. Who would argue that the new GEO and it's clear advantages? Plus I have to say after a few demos on the SL, wouldn't it be nice to have that extra power when you need it. It might even be a big crazy when the chip tuners tweak the torque numbers say up just a bit, say an extra 10-15 nm? This Orbea has so much going for it that I'm glad I sold my old Decoy and am waiting on this new crop of bikes. In terms of a bike Quiver, it'll be nice to have my Yeti SB 130 along with the Rise or Possibly a new Decoy Light? Hmmmmm.

 

[Gary]

Even Fazua claim a factor of 10 watts (I think they said a normal bike is 5 watts from the BB)

sounds about right.
Whereas a rear Maxxgrip DH casing DHF 2.5 @ 20psi might be giving away as much as 60 watts in rolling resistance

 

[RickBullotta]

its actually 17.74 kg now ive weighed it a number of times

It is a small so a med or large will probably add a couple of hundred grams I’d imagine.

Seems like 16.3 is quite possible on the LTD...

 

[R120]

@R120 it does also depend to some extent on how you set your bike up.
My Sommet is set-up fairly stiff and poppy and the low grip high(er) pressure tyres mean even with 170/160mm it's really not a plow bike.
infact ride it like that and you'll be spat off.

No I know, mines set up pretty stiff too, especially out back, modern bikes just too damn capable really, especially with my average skill level Its one of the thing I love about the bikes suspension design, is that you can set it up to be poppy and reactive without ruining its ability to still track well.

 

[Norcalsl]

Great technical analysis of the Rise vs. Levo SL motor. The EP8 RS motor is 35 volt, compared the 48 volt (edited) for the Specialized SL 1.1 motor. The higher the voltage, the lower the current. The lower the current, the lower the resistance losses in the conductors. And when resistance losses are low, energy losses are also low, i.e., the SL 1.1 motor is more efficient at producing power even though it is lighter than the EP8 RS. "The Specialized motor is more dedicated to it's purpose" than the Shimano motor, which is not specifically designed to being coupled with a light bike or small battery - it's one size fits all. And the reason Orbea detuned the EP8 was to extend range, which is comparable to the SL.

 

[jbrown15]

Great technical analysis of the Rise vs. Levo SL motor. The EP8 RS motor is 35 volt, compared the 45 volt for the Specialized SL 1.1 motor. The higher the voltage, the lower the current. The lower the current, the lower the resistance losses in the conductors. And when resistance losses are low, energy losses are also low, i.e., the SL 1.1 motor is more efficient at producing power even though it is lighter than the EP8 RS. "The Specialized motor is more dedicated to it's purpose" than the Shimano motor, which is not specifically designed to being coupled with a light bike or small battery - it's one size fits all. And the reason Orbea detuned the EP8 was to extend range, which is comparable to the SL.

Good video, but it seems like some of his points are speculation? I guess we just have to wait till there's some real world comparisons between the two light weight title contenders.

 

[R120]

Yes the only way we will know is when @Rob Rides EMTB or similar does a back to back test on range etc.

 

[flash]

Yes the only way we will know is when @Rob Rides EMTB or similar does a back to back test on range etc.

I'd like to see a Levo SL, eZesty, Hellium and Rise showdown.....

Gordon

 

[Hob Nob]

Like the thought behind this, as I don't need/want full boost. The SL concept is great, but by the time you put a decent set of forks on it, wheels, tyres, brakes etc it's not much lighter than a normal eeb. I can forgive that though, because it's still light in those terms - what I can't forgive is the absolute joke geometry.

For a mainstream brand that does push the boat out with their EVO models, they have this thing that was out of date year before it was even launched.

We do seem to be finally going in the direction of detaching geometry & travel. Give me a good, light 150mm bike with decent geometry over a 170mm version any day.

 

[b45her]

Does this bike make the SL even more special. I mean spec the SL with the Orbea’s components and then do a weight comparison. And then there’s the range, I’m guessing the Orbea would struggle to achieve 20 miles.

It’s where you realise what goes into Specialized R&D. They developed a small lightweight motor and then built the bike. Orbea have added an off the shelf motor, detuned it and then fitted questionable components to bring it in under the weight of the SL.

The motor is out of and orbea LOL, its the mahle motor that the gain has been using for a couple of years as a hub drive put into a box. i think your missing the point though, the rise isn't a competitor to the SL or the full fat bikes it can do both depending on how the switchable profiles are set up,

 

[b45her]

Yes the only way we will know is when @Rob Rides EMTB or similar does a back to back test on range etc.

This makes me chuckle almost as much as the look of devastation and confusion on his face when the bosch went up the hill faster that the brose in his motor test.

 

[b45her]

Not to insult you but if this is the case, why do Shimano advertise the EP8 as having 38% (ish??) less drag than the E8000? Having ridden my hard tail E8000 bike with faster tyres on tarmac I would say there is drag but it's not as big a factor as the weight and tyre choice.

On my E160 and e-Zesty that have the same tyres in the same width there's a noticable difference even on a flat gravel road above the limiter. Even Fazua claim a factor of 10 watts (I think they said a normal bike is 5 watts from the BB) with their motor and most consider it to be about the same as the SL when it comes to drag.

Gordon

you can have a percentage of anything, maybe the old one had 10 watts of drag and the new one has 6.2 for example. sounds better than 3.8 watts less.

 

[westcoastmtbr]

Its the usual trade off, it looks like the orbea is approx 1.5kg - 2kg lighter than the focus when compared like for like (or as close as can be) , but with the orbea you cant increase the torque on the motor to match the focus. So decide where your priorities lie, a 2kg lighter bike that has lower torque or a heavier bike with higher torque but can be ridden in an eco mode and can probably match the lighter bike for range

I'd probably go with the higher torque/heavier bike when the difference is only 2kg, but there must come a point where the weight difference is too great and people would rather choose the lower torque lighter bike.

Having the choice is good though - I'd like a much smaller lighter battery for my bike (orbea wild fs) when just going for a quick ride after work where I dont need the full 625wh, but thats not really an option right now, but if there was a say 300wh 1.5kg battery I could use that'd be great , and if it had to reduce the max torque by 30% in order to hit that weight, well, that wouldnt be much of a hardship for quick rides after work, as long as I had the choice of putting in the big battery and getting the full torque when I wanted it.

Like the Orbea Geo much better!

 

[Stray cat]

its actually 17.74 kg now ive weighed it a number of times

It is a small so a med or large will probably add a couple of hundred grams I’d imagine.

View attachment 43040

View attachment 43041

Which model is that,with stock tyres? Thanks

 

[b45her]

Which model is that,with stock tyres? Thanks

It’s an m10 with xtr brakes and a fox transfer, ally rims, proper exo plus casing tyres just like on the wild fs. The recon rear is an Orbea exclusive, trail tread with beefy carcas and about 350-400 grams of tubeless sealant in the tyres.

 

[Norcalsl]

Like the thought behind this, as I don't need/want full boost. The SL concept is great, but by the time you put a decent set of forks on it, wheels, tyres, brakes etc it's not much lighter than a normal eeb. I can forgive that though, because it's still light in those terms - what I can't forgive is the absolute joke geometry.

For a mainstream brand that does push the boat out with their EVO models, they have this thing that was out of date year before it was even launched.

We do seem to be finally going in the direction of detaching geometry & travel. Give me a good, light 150mm bike with decent geometry over a 170mm version any day.

What would you change with the geometry of the SL?

 

[KeithR]

this thing that was out of date year before it was even launched.

Luckily, SL owners tend not to be fashion victims - we're riding out bikes, not wearing them. And when a bike rides as well as the SL, "out of date" is nothing but a meaningless meme.

So feel free to worry about making sure you only ride "on trend" bikes. Meanwhile, SL riders will continue to have a blast anyway...