Novatec crap!

[GrahamPaul]

The wife's Thron² turned into a fixed wheel bike on Sunday - with a whole 380km on the clock. With the usual paranoia about motors, I took it into the dealer yesterday.

Turns out that it has Novatec hubs. I should have clicked - I've read enough about them on here - it seems to be a recurring theme on Focus bikes. They self-tightened and locked up the freewheel. An easy fix, which the LBS did in a few minutes, so at least I'm primed for the next time.

And, guess what? My Jam² also has "Focus made by Novatec" hubs. So I guess I'll be looking at the same problem

I had expected to be upgrading the bikes - which is why I'd gone for bottom spec... but not after 400km!

(Note: I check the axle torque weekly and neither bike had a loose axle).

 

[steve_sordy]

My Focus Jam2 has Novatec hubs. I have done over 1200 miles and early on I had to tighten the rear hub axle once. I used Loctite blue and torqued to spec. No further issues.

 

[Slowroller]

Lots of Novatec hubs are really solid, not sure which model Focus is using. If it's any consolation, they're better than Rovals....

 

[steve_sordy]

Lots of Novatec hubs are really solid, not sure which model Focus is using. If it's any consolation, they're better than Rovals....

I have just looked at the spec of the hub in the data provided by Focus when I bought the bike. Under the item marked "Hub", it says "Race Face AR30, 32-spoke, Novatec axle". It gives the axle dia and length for each hub (110x15F and 148x12R). That info is not complete enough for my state of knowledge. I can tell that the rims are 30mm internal width, there are 32 spokes and that the axle is by Novatec. Something is by Raceface, but I'm only guessing that it is the actual hub. I know the rims are Raceface because they have a separate entry.

 

[GrahamPaul]

I have just looked at the spec of the hub in the data provided by Focus when I bought the bike. Under the item marked "Hub", it says "Race Face AR30, 32-spoke, Novatec axle". It gives the axle dia and length for each hub (110x15F and 148x12R). That info is not complete enough for my state of knowledge. I can tell that the rims are 30mm internal width, there are 32 spokes and that the axle is by Novatec. Something is by Raceface, but I'm only guessing that it is the actual hub. I know the rims are Raceface because they have a separate entry.

On the wife's Thron² the hubs are labelled as "Novatec". On my Jam² the hubs are labelled as "Focus Hubs by Novatec" <- the font for Novatec is smaller.

The rims on my Jam² are by Raceface, with those on the missus' bike by Alex Rims (I think!).

(and I'm going by memory because the bikes are in the garage a 5 minute walk from my house... which is on lock down and I can't get to the bikes until the shops open and I can pretend to go to the supermarket).

 

[Mike Hampson]

I had to tightnen the Axel on my Jam2 after in came loose on my previous ride. I've also had a issue with the freehub after a wet ride when free-wheeling it was making a god awful noise that you could feel through the whole bike. I pulled the freehub apart to find it full of water, a quick clean and re-greese and so far it's not caused me anymore issues.

 

[Gary]

Turns out that it has Novatec hubs. I should have clicked - I've read enough about them on here - it seems to be a recurring theme on Focus bikes. They self-tightened and locked up the freewheel. An easy fix, which the LBS did in a few minutes, so at least I'm primed for the next time.

And, guess what? My Jam² also has "Focus made by Novatec" hubs. So I guess I'll be looking at the same problem

My Focus Jam2 has Novatec hubs. I have done over 1200 miles and early on I had to tighten the rear hub axle once.

I had to tightnen the Axel on my Jam2 after in came loose on my previous ride. I've also had a issue with the freehub after a wet ride when free-wheeling it was making a god awful noise that you could feel through the whole bike. I pulled the freehub apart to find it full of water, a quick clean and re-greese and so far it's not caused me anymore issues.

If it's any consolation guys, Chris King hubs do exactly this too.
Especially if you don't pay attention to them and do a little maintenance once in a while.

There's a moral in this story somewhere

 

[nepper]

Focus uses cheap and cheerful version of Novatec hubs on Jam2. Freehub uses cup /cone bearings paired with too simple seal. Your cup/cone bearing was not adjusted properly and failed because of that. Simple fix for that, adjust it properly. Sealing problem is harder to solve but heavy overuse of grease that has good water wash resistance helps.

 

[YorkshireDan]

The standard novatech hubs are shite. Rubbish bearings and seals. My freehub is shite, had to prise the seal out, if you can call it that, to flush the crap out and relube the pawns and springs. The bearings already feel notchy and not very free rolling. I'm seriously debating hope fortus 30's with pro4 hubs. Ran hopes on nearly every build I've had that's had a freehub on and they've never missed a beat

 

[H1 Dave]

The standard novatech hubs are shite. Rubbish bearings and seals. My freehub is shite, had to prise the seal out, if you can call it that, to flush the crap out and relube the pawns and springs. The bearings already feel notchy and not very free rolling. I'm seriously debating hope fortus 30's with pro4 hubs. Ran hopes on nearly every build I've had that's had a freehub on and they've never missed a beat

Hi Dan.
I have a focus sam2 .
Mine killed the novatec freehub after about the first 1000miles. Decided to swap it over to a Hope Fortus wheel with a pro 4 freehub. Done over 2000 miles since and no probs what so ever. Serviced the new Hope freehub not long ago and was still in excellent condition so i highly recomend going down that route for piece of mind even though its extra expense.
Although i have to say the LBS where i bought the bike did a warrenty claim and focus sorted me out with a rebuilt novatec freehub fairly rapidly.

regards
Dave

 

[Gary]

I've owned well over 20 hope hubs over the years (10 currently in use just now between various bikes) and not one of them has ever lasted even 1000miles without needing new bearings or spare parts (pawl springs, axles etc.). at least 6 or 7 of them the hub shells cracked. Some across the flange, some straight across the hub shell and one disc mount sheared clean off. and that's not including the old titanium centre shell bonded to Alu flanges hubs that all debonded.
I used to always buy hope hubs not because they are the most reliable products out there (they're absolutely not) but because their customer service was so great. Often going out of their way and replacing broken parts FOC even when out of warranty. This is no longer the case with Hope. Infact they now rarely even take responsibility for worn/damaged parts within warranty which means my money now goes elsewhere.

I only have one set of wheels with novatec hubs which just so happen to have been used solely on my Emtb. Currently those hubs have done somewhere in the region of 1500 off-road miles with no need to adjust anything and their bearings are still running smooth with no play.

 

[nepper]

Novatec makes good products and substandard products. D162SB hub used in some Jam2 model falls in substandard category. I replaced the hubs with new Shimano 12-speed XT-hubs. Works well and I personally like Shimano cup/cone bearings which many others hate.

 

[Varaxis]

I had this happen on an unlabeled Novatec hub too. Not sure what model, but it had a steel freehub. It's the kind that has adjustable preload on the freehub side, and a similar sized locknut behind it.

Have to hold the axle steady on the non-driveside, back off the locknut (outboard one on driveside), and then precisely tune the preload on the preload nut (inner nut on on the driveside). It takes cone wrenches to do this, plus threadlock, since the wrench flats are so narrow. If it's too loose, the entire freehub can wobble loose and affect shifting. Too tight and it becomes a fixie, or creates excessive drag.

Looked up the D162SB, and that looks exactly like what came stock on my emtb.

 

[nepper]

Yep, that's the procedure to adjust the Novatec hub or any other cup/cone bearing. You just find balance between overtight and too loose. Then wrench the locking nut tight. I have never used thread lock (+15 years and hundreds of services) on Shimano hubs and no problems.

It's a brilliant system but service must be done properly. Too many times I have opened Shimanon hub with little to no km's driven and bearing feels notchy to hand. It's a sign of overtightening. Cartridge bearing design is foolproof regarding that. Still nothing mends the rubbish seals of the Novatech hub.

 

[steve_sordy]

I don't know which Novatec hubs I have on my 2019 Focus Jam2 (how would I find out?). But I have done 1260 miles through two winters and they are still trouble free.

 

[YorkshireDan]

I’ve serviced mine today, the bearings on the hub don’t feel great if I’m honest, and I’ve flushed the free hub out and relubed it again. I get that people have had issues with hopes, but I never have and have yet to be put off buying one

 

[Gary]

The standard novatech hubs are shite. Rubbish bearings and seals. My freehub is shite, had to prise the seal out, if you can call it that, to flush the crap out and relube the pawns and springs. The bearings already feel notchy and not very free rolling

Eh? So when was this?
if...

I’ve serviced mine today, the bearings on the hub don’t feel great if I’m honest, and I’ve flushed the free hub out and relubed it again.

was today?

and can you elaborate on what do you mean by "serviced"? If you're simply taking them apart, cleaning the internals, assessing the bearings to "feel notchy and not very free rolling" but not actually replacing them only to reassemble with a little fresh gease and said original "shite bearings". That's not really a service.
Also, What exactly do you mean by "flushed the freehub out"?
The freehub is simply a machined splined interface with 2 sealed bearings and a spacer pressed in that fits into the hub shell and spins on the hub axle. Pretty much the same as Hope have been doing with their entire rear hub product line. By all means clean any dirt debris off the internals when inspecting the hubs but "flushing" suggests to me you're using a solvent etc. If you're blowing any liquid into/around your sealed bearings it's unlikely to be helping.
removing bearing seals carefully and packing more grease in can sometimes help with bearing life but not if they're already at the point of "notchy"

Truth is there's nothing particularly special or even better about Hope hubs over a decent set of Novatecs*. They're both just sealed bearing hubs with a sprung pawl and ratchet freehub and neither hub has partictlarly great seals. and both hubs can be fitted with bearings from whoever your favourite bearing supplier is.
So long as there's nothing inherantly faulty or poor about the design, materials used or tolerances, hub bearing life is partly down to use, partly down to how they've been looked after and cleaned by the user and partly down to luck (regarding life of the actual individual bearings).


* I've no idea which actual novatec model your hub is. I'd be surprised if it is but forgive/ignore me if it is indeed a cheaper loose ball hub.

 

[YorkshireDan]

Eh? So when was this?
if...
was today?

and can you elaborate on what do you mean by "serviced"? If you're simply taking them apart, cleaning the internals, assessing the bearings to "feel notchy and not very free rolling" but not actually replacing them only to reassemble with a little fresh gease and said original "shite bearings". That's not really a service.
Also, What exactly do you mean by "flushed the freehub out"?
The freehub is simply a machined splined interface with 2 sealed bearings and a spacer pressed in that fits into the hub shell and spins on the hub axle. Pretty much the same as Hope have been doing with their entire rear hub product line. By all means clean any dirt debris off the internals when inspecting the hubs but "flushing" suggests to me you're using a solvent etc. If you're blowing any liquid into/around your sealed bearings it's unlikely to be helping.
removing bearing seals carefully and packing more grease in can sometimes help with bearing life but not if they're already at the point of "notchy"

Truth is there's nothing particularly special or even better about Hope hubs over a decent set of Novatecs*. They're both just sealed bearing hubs with a sprung pawl and ratchet freehub and neither hub has partictlarly great seals. and both hubs can be fitted with bearings from whoever your favourite bearing supplier is.
So long as there's nothing inherantly faulty or poor about the design, materials used or tolerances, hub bearing life is partly down to use, partly down to how they've been looked after and cleaned by the user and partly down to luck (regarding life of the actual individual bearings).


* I've no idea which actual novatec model your hub is. I'd be surprised if it is but forgive/ignore me if it is indeed a cheaper loose ball hub.

Went riding Thursday last week, the free hub was sticking a bit, so to keep it alive I sprayed a bit of chain lube behind the seal to get me home. The hub is indeed a cup and cone bearing model, no idea on the part number. Today I’ve stripped and cleaned the free hub, ie taken the cassette off, and prized the seal out. It should be noted that the seal is quite loose fitting as standard and water/crap/grit can get behind it very easily. Cleaned the springs and pawls with a bit of brake cleaner, and I mean a bit as not to drip through to contaminate the bearings. I do this over a bowl with the free hub pointing down so the waste cleaner runs down the outside. I then use a bit of gun oil to relube the pawls and springs, and refit the seal, cassette, and re fit to the bike. It’s loads better now, but I’m not convinced about the life of this hub. If there’s another alternative to Hope that isn’t gonna kill the bank balance, I’m open to suggestions. I’ve ridden pretty much every weekend since I got the bike in October in all weathers, and had to clean/wash it to suit. So I’m not surprised it hasn’t lasted long. It appears to be a cheap oe built to a price that can’t hack British weather

 

[Gary]

The hub is indeed a cup and cone bearing model

Ah... sorry.
Carry on

I then use a bit of gun oil

Sir!

 

[YorkshireDan]

Ah... sorry.
Carry on

Sir!

What’s wrong with gun oil? It’s amazing stuff. Smells nice as well

 

[Gary]

If there’s another alternative to Hope that isn’t gonna kill the bank balance, I’m open to suggestions.

27.5 or 29?

 

[Gary]

What’s wrong with gun oil? It’s amazing stuff. Smells nice as well

The emoji was more because I'm talking to a guy with a gun. Sir

 

[YorkshireDan]

27.5 or 29?

29er. Preferably with 30mm internal width rims

 

[Gary]

hmm... was gonna suggest this
Pro-Build Chosen Hub / Alex XM35 Trail Wheels - 27.5+ | Merlin Cycles
but for some reason they don't do a 29" rim in boost.

 

[YorkshireDan]

Reyt then. Got an update. Got some new wheels for £150 off the lad who runs the LBS. Kore Realm 2.7 rims and formula sealed bearing hubs. Miles smoother. Free hub is better sealed. Bike feels loads better to ride. The old hub on the old wheels is very rough, the bearings feel knackered. Am going to drop them off and get the hub fully serviced, bearings out and replaced

 

[Gary]

Should hold up fine
Formula like Novatec make hubs for tons of other companies so has a very similar line up of hubs to novatec. ranging from ultra cheap loose ball hubs to full sealed bearing.
You gets what you pay for generally.
And the hubs you've bought are probably technically no worse than a set of Hope hubs, Just 1/3 the price

 

[YorkshireDan]

I’ll see how they perform. They instantly feel smoother though

 

[sdcoffeeroaster]

My 2018 Jam2 C came with the 162 Novatec hubs as well. The one good thing about these hub is the all steel cassette driver. The bad thing is that if you don't pay attention to the cup and ball bearing and run it loose for any length of time you'll dent the bearing races like I did. And of course these rear hubs are pretty heavy with that steel cassette driver but absolutely zero wear after 1000 miles unlike an aluminum cassette driver.

I fixed my hub by buying the Novatec 462 hub. The dealer also sent me a free 162 replacement hub that I probably won't ever use. The 462 hub still had the 5 pawls but it had 3 cartridge bearings instead of the cup and ball arrangement and it still uses the steel cassette driver. And yes still very heavy. I keep that as my backup since someone gave me a set of 27.5/29" CF Exile+ wheels. Nice and light but I can see I'm really gouging up the aluminum cassette driver fast. I do keep it torqued and try to avoid shifting if I'm on boost but the aluminum driver is still too fragile for an ebike IMO which if why Focus used that Novatec hub. Eventually I'll have to replace the exile+ hub cassette for about $60. but I'll probably get 2000 miles out of it by then.

 

[BackHol3]

Already two novatec freehubs busted! BAD quality indeed. I think there is some problem with sealing, water gets In and then ball bearings are broken. Focus Jam2 9.6 Plus 2019.

 

[steve_sordy]

Already two novatec freehubs busted! BAD quality indeed. I think there is some problem with sealing, water gets In and then ball bearings are broken. Focus Jam2 9.6 Plus 2019.

I have the same bike and year as you except mine is the NINER. I got mine in Jan'19. No problems with the hubs at all (touch wood). I'm torn between breaking the seal to see how it's getting on, finding all is well and then having problems, OR just leaving it alone until something does go wrong, which may be a long time (or not, ie normal now the subject has come up!).