New Bosch Tour+ mode officially launched

[Flyfisha]

Hi Gyre,
Do you have the July update on your Bosch powered bike?
That chart does not seem to include the update?
As I wrote before MTB is no longer on the display, it is replaced by a new mode that includes all other power applications. ( supposedly) The new mode replacing MTB uses the old name sport. It now has a curve that includes eco on the low end. According to the manufacturer it includes all the power of turbo. That I have found to be a little misleading. In an effort to provide long range ( i assume ) the top output has the feeling of being less than turbo because you can definitely feel a difference when changing to turbo on a steep hill no matter your input/ how hard you pedal.

 

[Tribey]

Does this Tour+ update come in a new version of the DU software version number? or is it an add-on to the existing version?
Bosch page says for the Performance Line CX MY20 the latest DU software version is 1.1.5.0, anyone who knows?

 

[Gyre]

Hi Gyre,
Do you have the July update on your Bosch powered bike?
That chart does not seem to include the update?
As I wrote before MTB is no longer on the display, it is replaced by a new mode that includes all other power applications. ( supposedly) The new mode replacing MTB uses the old name sport.

Yes, I have the latest update (1.1.5.0) and from looking over the shoulder of one technician and speaking to another I have a reasonably good idea how the dealer software options are laid out. The way it works is not that the new update necessarily changes your mode, but rather that the technician has a number of options to choose from.

For the second power assist slot they can select either Tour, (short crank)75N-m Tour+, (long crank) 75N-m Tour+, (short crank)85 N-m Tour+, or (long crank) 85 N-m Tour+.

For the third power assist slot they can select either Sport, (short crank)75N-m eMTB, (long crank) 75N-m eMTB, (short crank)85 N-m eMTB, or (long crank) 85 N-m eMTB.

It now has a curve that includes eco on the low end. According to the manufacturer it includes all the power of turbo. That I have found to be a little misleading. In an effort to provide long range ( i assume ) the top output has the feeling of being less than turbo because you can definitely feel a difference when changing to turbo on a steep hill no matter your input/ how hard you pedal.

I believe you're mistaken. This is directly from from the Bosch Australia web site:
Everything you need to know about the motor for Bosch eBike Systems - Bosch eBike Systems (bosch-ebike.com)

It's essentially identical to what you see in the rest of the world, so I very much doubt Australia is a special case. Throughout the history of the Bosch drive unit line, Sport has always been a linear mode. Had they changed Sport to be a dynamic mode, I'm sure they would have made just as much of a fuss marketing it as they do with eMTB and Tour+. They would also need short crank and long crank Sport options to support the dynamic feature, and as I understand it, those options only exist for Tour+ and eMTB. The only mode that allegedly has Eco on the low end is Tour+, not Sport.

Now, I admit that on the Derailleur Performance Line column, they've confused things by writing SPORT/eMTB**: 120-300. I believe that's an editing mistake by the writer and not an indication that Sport is a dynamic mode. It would be inconsistent with the history of Sport mode and then what would be the point of having eMTB at all? You can clearly see that eMTB and Tour+ are dynamic modes in the Performance Line CX, exactly as I've said.

 

[Gyre]

Does this Tour+ update come in a new version of the DU software version number? or is it an add-on to the existing version?
Bosch page says for the Performance Line CX MY20 the latest DU software version is 1.1.5.0, anyone who knows?

As I understand it, Tour+ is a new mode that was introduced as an option in 1.1.5.0.

 

[Tribey]

Thanks, that might make sense. I took my Whyte in to my LBS because I had a couple of instances, when for a split second I had the speedo increase to 25ish mph and the power cut off, and I thought it might be a faulty speed sensor. The dealer connected a handheld device (looked like a phone) to the Purion, stated there were no error codes at all, he then asked what sized cranks I had and said, with a grin, he'd given me a few new updates.
I wasn't aware of Tour+ then, and they said when I bought it, there would be regular software updates and to just pop in.
My first ride up on the Moors after and I'm sticking in Tour more, not using EMTB so much, it feels good, and I got to the end of my ride with more battery left than usual.

I'll have to pop back into the bike shop and ask if they gave me the Tour+. My DU is 1.5.0, but I don't know what version it was before the visit.

 

[Flyfisha]

Thank you Gyre , this information you have posted will assist me in questioning my dealer as to what the technician has done. If as you say it requires human input to select the parameters of the update then it’s possible the technician has made “human error?” I appear to have been selected Cargo line derailleur system as that matches what I see on my display.

However looking at the figures it may have been chosen for the larger values and not be a mistake?

I believe my update to have been one of the first done in my town on the first few days of it being available?

 

[Gyre]

Thank you Gyre , this information you have posted will assist me in questioning my dealer as to what the technician has done. If as you say it requires human input to select the parameters of the update then it’s possible the technician has made “human error?”

If the technician told you that Sport mode starts at Eco and goes to Turbo, the evidence shows he's giving you bad information.

I appear to have been selected Cargo line derailleur system as that matches what I see on my display.

However looking at the figures it may have been chosen for the larger values and not be a mistake?

I don't understand this. Almost any drive unit can be configured to display "ECO / TOUR / SPORT / TURBO", even the Performance Line CX gen 4.

 

[Flyfisha]

Well I just want to say I called into the local branch of Trek Australian dealership today. My bike was updated already. No new updates since July 14 . Talking to the technician it seems Australia does not have the complete touring + update that is available in other countries. His words “ it’s a regional thing” . As I left I was told they will inform me when the next update is available. I at least am happy with this explanation of the current state of Australia‘s update.
Just to confirm a snapshot showing the display that has the new circular power needle display but that’s all.

 

[Hamina]

Well I just want to say I called into the local branch of Trek Australian dealership today. My bike was updated already. No new updates since July 14 . Talking to the technician it seems Australia does not have the complete touring + update that is available in other countries. His words “ it’s a regional thing” . As I left I was told they will inform me when the next update is available. I at least am happy with this explanation of the current state of Australia‘s update.
Just to confirm a snapshot showing the display that has the new circular power needle display but that’s all.

It says on the Bosch Australia pages that you have it, but what's the reality?

Tour+

Read News about Tour+ for Bosch eBike Systems.

www.bosch-ebike.com

I think and it sounds like some of the LBS are not that interested into look/hear/note new updates from Bosch.

 

[Gyre]

If this is the same dealer that told you Sport is a dynamic mode that ranges from Eco to Turbo, you're probably well advised to find a more competent dealer to work with.

As @Hamina has posted that Bosch is marketing Tour+ on the .au website, if you're running 1.1.5.0 your dealer just has to configure your existing drive software to use Tour+ (assuming you actually want the Tour+ behavior) , not download new software. If he can't figure that out, that's another red flag.

 

[Cummins0867]

I'm in the US and and have had the Tour + on my 2021 Rail 5 since July 25th....finally got a chance to ride on July 27th due to heavy rains here in the Northeast. I really like the "Tour +" as it seems very intuitive and gives you more torque exactly when needed. You don't have to think about what power level to have it in and just focus on the ride. I always try to use the lowest power mode and try to use the mechanical gears to get up steep terrain, to conserve battery power for longer rides and get a little more exercise. It seems that the tour is a fire and forget mode or full auto. It also seems that Tour + doesn't effect the battery power as I still get about the same distance and sometimes more on other routes. I'm able to conquer some hills that I wasn't before as I didn't have to worry about shifting the power up and focus on the ride...which I think makes the ride more fun. I can see where it could make me lazy as the old eMTB lite made me work harder at times to get up the hill....just my experience.

 

[tecadejava]

I'm in the US and and have had the Tour + on my 2021 Rail 5 since July 25th....finally got a chance to ride on July 27th due to heavy rains here in the Northeast. I really like the "Tour +" as it seems very intuitive and gives you more torque exactly when needed. You don't have to think about what power level to have it in and just focus on the ride. I always try to use the lowest power mode and try to use the mechanical gears to get up steep terrain, to conserve battery power for longer rides and get a little more exercise. It seems that the tour is a fire and forget mode or full auto. It also seems that Tour + doesn't effect the battery power as I still get about the same distance and sometimes more on other routes. I'm able to conquer some hills that I wasn't before as I didn't have to worry about shifting the power up and focus on the ride...which I think makes the ride more fun. I can see where it could make me lazy as the old eMTB lite made me work harder at times to get up the hill....just my experience.

I totally agree with your comments. Good improvement from Bosch new firmware !! Tour+ performs very
intuitively and the range of power goes from Eco to Turbo in a very logical way (IMHO). Also , in terms of battery power, I can say that it goes a bit longer in kms./ miles

 

[Gyre]

I just came back from the ride I currently use as a benchmark for "techy climbing". Here's the short answer: Tour+ was fine. It doesn't require any major adjustment to riding style, and I didn't feel like I have to run back to the dealer to change it back.

As before, switching up to Tour+ the power is noticeably stronger than Eco everywhere in the power band. It doesn't seem to "carry" you as much, but we're never talking Eco power here, regardless of the Bosch documents.

A quick stomp on the pedals gets a punchier response. So it's easier to get all the torque you need when you're trying to scramble and ratchet over hard rocky patches, and it's easier to get unwanted wheelslip over marbles or a bit too much push negotiating tight corners. I found myself feathering the rear brake a little more often than usual to help modulate my acceleration here and there, but it wasn't terrible.

Bottom Line:
"Regular" Tour is smoother, somewhat more predictable, and (at least in climbing situations) has significantly less battery consumption for the same elevation/distance.

Tour+ can be a real "set and forget" mode, very good for instant kicks of power when you're negotiating rocky uphill sections, and is quite good at flattening mountains if you surf along the crest of the powerband at 90-100rpm.

 

[Flyfisha]

Hi all,
Gyre as I sit in the coffee shop of the largest trek dealership in town I would like to thank you for your determination. It took 5 minutes for the technician to reconfigure the update I already had into tour plus.
To be fair on the other shop I was at on Saturday the young guy was not a true technician, just another bike rider working on the weekend.
Thanks again

 

[The Hodge]

Bottom Line:
"Regular" Tour is smoother, somewhat more predictable, and (at least in climbing situations) has significantly less battery consumption for the same elevation/distance.

So..as Ive been saying.. as someone who currently rides just about everywhere in Tour which is in mainly hilly terrain..no real advantage for me to change ( and the only time I would use Eco would be if there was a real danger of using up all of the charge before ending the ride ) ..

 

[Gyre]

So..as Ive been saying.. as someone who currently rides just about everywhere in Tour which is in mainly hilly terrain..no real advantage for me to change ( and the only time I would use Eco would be if there was a real danger of using up all of the charge before ending the ride ) ..

I definitely wouldn’t recommend it just because it’s the new shiny thing. There are some tradeoffs and since you like Tour the way it is don’t mess with it. ?

 

[emtbPhil]

I'm really liking Tour+. It saves flicking between eco and tour all the time which I found myself doing a fair bit on long trails.

I'm not sure that screenshot and documentation is right though, there's no way Tour+ goes all the way up to turbo levels.
It feels more like Tour+ varies between Eco and mid way into Emtb - there's definitely sections that no matter how much I pedal I still need to put it into Turbo.

 

[Cummins0867]

I'm really liking Tour+. It saves flicking between eco and tour all the time which I found myself doing a fair bit on long trails.

there's definitely sections that no matter how much I pedal I still need to put it into Turbo.

I really like the Tour + too.....I goes everywhere.......I don't have your experience....every where I've gone so far I have been able to make it through the terrain or up the hill in Tour +.....Maybe my riding area isn't a rough or steep as yours....

 

[emtbPhil]

I really like the Tour + too.....I goes everywhere.......I don't have your experience....every where I've gone so far I have been able to make it through the terrain or up the hill in Tour +.....Maybe my riding area isn't a rough or steep as yours....

Well when I say there's some bits I still need Turbo for - I'm talking 1000ft climbs in the dales LOL

 

[wildsau2]

This Tour+ thing is typical for Bosch, its unflexible, proprietary and comparing to other brands completely outdated. They should open their System for Smartphones. This 80th style Purion should have bluetooth for years.

 

[Akelu]

I've heard some whispers that the new BES3 bosch CX 2022 motor supports more configuration via mobile app.

 

[emtbPhil]

This Tour+ thing is typical for Bosch, its unflexible, proprietary and comparing to other brands completely outdated. They should open their System for Smartphones. This 80th style Purion should have bluetooth for years.

100% agree with that
Locking firmware updates to dealers is a bit old fashioned too

You can update your phone, I can flash an ECU on a £60k BMW... but I can't update my own bike firmware when all it really needs is a USB connection and a laptop.

I love the bosch motor but all the displays are lacking

 

[Akiwi]

Hi all,
Gyre as I sit in the coffee shop of the largest trek dealership in town I would like to thank you for your determination. It took 5 minutes for the technician to reconfigure the update I already had into tour plus.
To be fair on the other shop I was at on Saturday the young guy was not a true technician, just another bike rider working on the weekend.
Thanks again

A similar thing happened to me. I got my wife's bike updated in Italy, and apparently, they have to select if it a Mountain Bike, or a city bike. Maybe city bike is default and that does not have EMTB mode.

 

[Rahr85]

+1 for tour+ here.

I was dropping off my wife's car and the LBS is just down the road, so i popped in for a chat and discovered they would do the update for free. A few hours later i took the bike in and it was done (along with some other random battery update).

I think this is the mode i've been needing all along. I like the feel of EMTB in terms of the power delivery but felt it was overkill in most situations. Tour+ straddles the line between ECO and EMTB almost perfectly for how i use the bike as on the flat you switch to ECO and there is no difference at all but when you need to inject a bit of pace or effort on an incline the motor backs you up to the point that most reasonably fit people would not need to switch up a mode.

Obviously what we really want is for bosch to allow us to actually tailor the modes like the other manufacturers do but for the options i have Tour+ allows me to just set and forget for 99% of the ride.

I was previously not using tour mode as i found it being too..... linear in it's power delivery, only useful for fairly sedate rides.

 

[Hobo Mikey]

Pick my bike up today from having a service and Tour+ installed. Will hit Coed Y Brenin tomorrow to test it out and see what i think. Hope it’s good.

 

[The Hodge]

was previously not using tour mode as i found it being too..... linear in it's power delivery, only useful for fairly sedate rides.

Not sure what you mean here..?..
Could you explain further ..its just that I dont do "sedate " rides and find it almost perfect for the riding I do in big hills with steep climbs ..
I also find emtb " too much " in terms of power delivery when it jumps to " turbo"..

 

[Rahr85]

Not sure what you mean here..?..
Could you explain further ..

I find it hard to explain properly. Eco feels closer to a normal bike sort of effort but with the obvious thing of it being very smoothed out by the motor. Tour feels like just having someone pushing you along at a steady rate to keep you near 15mph. Personally i found it lacking in punch when the going gets tougher but also offering too much assistance when you are just cruising along.

It won't be for everyone but i do prefer a more dynamic mode. If you weren't enjoying EMTB mode then maybe it isn't for you. The way i ride i should be getting more battery range in tour+ but it's difficult to do a real world test due to changing conditions.

 

[Yos]

Upgraded the firmware to Tour+ and not decided yet whether to stay or to change to Trail after 2 rides of 80Km total, on a relative flat surface with stones. On a steady speed got less support than Eco mode (moved back and forth and Eco was more lively) once changed to higher gear, speed went up got much more support from the Tour+. On uphill single-track got the right amount of support no power overshot felt good.
Battery - Consumed 20% less than my previous rides.

 

[Hamina]

After some testing between EMTB Lite and Tour+ I would say that EMTB Lite with ECO as lowest assistance level would be spot on for me.

 

[Doomanic]

I have EMTBLite and it seems very good to me; punchy enough to keep up with my mate on his Levo in Turbo but much more economical.