New Bosch Tour + Mode

[Batch]

I'm pretty sure Tour+ only cares about your torque and cadence (regardless of Bosch marketing fluff), but the amount of power you need to put down to access higher assist levels might be more than a lot of people can do.

The first time I really gave Tour+ the beans was like nonstop interval training. It wasn't pleasant at all but I did notice to my satisfaction that the trail was rolling by without feeling the grade so much. Not that it ever felt like Turbo though. That might be out of my reach.

Hmmmmmm so might be a bit of a useless mode for us mere mortals that are unable to achieve Armstrong levels of assisted cadence and torque!!! Think I will be switching back if it doesn't work out as expected?!

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Hmmmmmm so might be a bit of a useless mode for us mere mortals that are unable to achieve Armstrong levels of assisted cadence and torque!!! Think I will be switching back if it doesn't work out as expected?!

Why? What are you missing out on? EMTB+ is great & tour + is great. Both I find are excellently intuitive & make climbing seemless. I never used the old tour mode- just seemed redundant when you could have the machine working for you. I guess it's like being in your car & switching from your auto mode to triptronic & keeping it in 2nd.

 

[Zed]

Exactly what I have found Doug, which TBH is a little disappointing. Will give it a few more outings to give it a chance and see how it is working out on the battery range before I revert back to the standard Tour mode.

I think if you want to access the full support more easily in Tour+, my advice would be slower cadence (like 60/70) - thus using bit higher gear. I can really conserve energy and make the bike do the work doing that. It seems it just wants to see pressure on the pedals before it gives the beans, and I can do that at a slower cadence much more easily.

For me the Tour+ rides are more of a "fitness" ride and I'm trying to NOT do that and spin instead so I do some more work and use less battery

 

[Zed]

EMTB+ is great & tour + is great. Both I find are excellently intuitive & make climbing seemless.

Yeah I agree, I use both and think both are great. Sometimes I've got more time and inclination so I go for a longer, more chilled ride in Tour+. Other times I want to just gun it so I use eMTB and go for a shorter ride. I also use eMTB if I'm feeling off and want to be lazy, but that's only say after a few too many ales, a vaccination, or something

Both are different but I tend to do the full ride in either and have in mind before I even leave what kind of ride I'm going for. That variety is good for the mind and for fitness improvements too I reckon. Something I wasn't doing before is just simply trying to ride as much as possible. I don't have a day off the bike because I had a huge ride the day before, I just go for an easier effort, and ride every day I can find time. I think this is probably the best approach, and it's something I can only do on an ebike (assuming I want to just ride trails).

 

[Batch]

I think if you want to access the full support more easily in Tour+, my advice would be slower cadence (like 60/70) - thus using bit higher gear. I can really conserve energy and make the bike do the work doing that. It seems it just wants to see pressure on the pedals before it gives the beans, and I can do that at a slower cadence much more easily.

For me the Tour+ rides are more of a "fitness" ride and I'm trying to NOT do that and spin instead so I do some more work and use less battery

Cheers Zed, but that is contradictory to the advice that you get the best out of the motor by keeping cadence up to ensure maximum return. Will have to have a play around and test out cadence input in varying gears on varying slopes to see what works. Agree though, I like to put as much effort in to the bike as I can for fitness, so a turn on and forget mode is ideal, but I'm just not seeing the upper level support on steeper inclines at present.......all a learning curve! Cheers

 

[Batch]

Why? What are you missing out on? EMTB+ is great & tour + is great. Both I find are excellently intuitive & make climbing seemless. I never used the old tour mode- just seemed redundant when you could have the machine working for you. I guess it's like being in your car & switching from your auto mode to triptronic & keeping it in 2nd.

Guess I just need to give it more of a chance? Just don't have the confidence coming in to a steep climb that it is going to be there when needed as I have not found it to be yet, whereas under the legacy tour most inclines were possible with effort of course. Always possible that the firmware update wasn't completed properly?
Very interested in freeing up the partition of the battery reserved for lights which may have been mentioned in this thread? I run self-contained lights so battery back for use in the motor to reduce my range anxiety and to have the confidence to explore further afield......I am all for that! Cheers

 

[Zed]

Cheers Zed, but that is contradictory to the advice that you get the best out of the motor by keeping cadence up to ensure maximum return. Will have to have a play around and test out cadence input in varying gears on varying slopes to see what works.

Keeping cadence up to get strong power was certainly a thing with the previous gen motors, and may be for most still. But I don't find it's as true with the Bosch, it's got a really surprising amount of lower cadence torque, even after a few months I find it surprisingly strong.

But related to Tour+ specifically if you slow cadence but push hard (or just stand up), you'll see there's a surprising amount of support offered from the bike vs just spinning more. That's how it seems to me anyway. The computer sees the higher torque from you and applies some more to the back wheel.

If you want most efficiency in terms of range then I suspect you would still do best to spin faster.

Very interested in freeing up the partition of the battery reserved for lights which may have been mentioned in this thread?

Yeah that was me, the dealer mentioned it when I went in to get Tour+ installed. He removed the reservation. I rode it down to 4% the other day in Tour+ and it wasn't limping yet. I never got that low before the change got made though, so I don't know if different behaviour.

 

[Batch]

But related to Tour+ specifically if you slow cadence but push hard (or just stand up), you'll see there's a surprising amount of support offered from the bike vs just spinning more. That's how it seems to me anyway. The computer sees the higher torque from you and applies some more to the back wheel.

This mornings blast in to work and I think it has finally clicked for me on Tour+ mode! Having played around with and flicking between modes to make a rough comparison at varying cadence and applying greater pressure etc. it is clear that the support is there when needed, just very much more progressive and subtle.......not the clear and obvious surge you get when you manually shift between modes! I have some steeper and longer climbs on my way home so will be more robustly tested, but I think I am gonna like it?! Cheers for your input peoples, very much appreciated

 

[Batch]

Yep, experiment over following climbier (think you know what I mean?!) route home........I now get it and think it will be the mode for me going forward, although it does tend to sit too much towards turbo on some climbs which has significant drain on the battery but will have to learn how to manage the input better just to back it off a little on climbing so it sits more around the old Tour mode level. Cheers all

 

[Mteam]

Had a proper go with tour+ this weekend, it seems to do a decent job of being efficient with the battery without you having to toggle between different modes.

Normally I'd get between 5000 and 5500 feet of climbing using a combination of eco and tour modes, with the odd emtb burst. With tour+ I reckon I could get 6000ish feet,with no flicking between modes, but (obviously really) at significant extra effort from me.

Its quite a natural feeling mode, but it's not a fun mode. Emtb is much more fun.

I'll keep it and use it on those rides where I need max range - which I guess is its primary purpose

 

[Silverfox Baz]

Is there any way of knowing if I have Tour+ without taking it into my LBS? I’ve just bought a new 2022 model Cube with Nyon display and it just show Eco, Tour, Sport and Turbo.

 

[Chris ledger]

It might tell you on the ebike flow app ?? Which bike did you get im waiting for my cube with no confirmed delivery

 

[mtb-steve]

I'm not liking tour+, I normally ride in eco with tour for harder bits, then emtb and turbo for fun. I'm finding tour+ messes up my normal rhythm as it just surges, I usually resort to tour later in a ride when my legs are flagging (60+ km rides are common), normal tour just adds a consistent amount of extra power, so now I'm finding I just skip tour+ or keep slogging in eco.

Steve

 

[Silverfox Baz]

It might tell you on the ebike flow app ?? Which bike did you get im waiting for my cube with no confirmed delivery

I got the Kathmandu Pro 625.

 

[Silverfox Baz]

It might tell you on the ebike flow app ?? Which bike did you get im waiting for my cube with no confirmed delivery

The Flow app only works with the new Smart System. I’m using the Connect app but that doesn’t give any details unfortunately. Looks like I’ll have to ask the LBS to check when it goes in for its 200 Mile checkup.

Cube are hard to come by at the moment. I was lucky to get 2 (one for my wife) as almost everyone was out of stock with no delivery dates. One store told me that Cube were concentrating on Europe and the US and pretty well ignoring the UK.

 

[Chris ledger]

Sorry i assumed when you said your bike is 2022 i thought it might be the new bosch system thats what im waiting for

 

[Silverfox Baz]

Sorry i assumed when you said your bike is 2022 i thought it might be the new bosch system thats what im waiting for

Ah sorry for the confusion. It had me for a bit when I read about the new Bosch Smart System going on the 2022 models. I had ordered a 2022 model and I checked with the shop but they said no, that was going on the later 2022 models. This model year stuff is a bit confusing.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Is there any way of knowing if I have Tour+ without taking it into my LBS? I’ve just bought a new 2022 model Cube with Nyon display and it just show Eco, Tour, Sport and Turbo.

On flat ground, pedal gently in Eco and then switch to Tour without increasing your pedal pressure. If you feel no difference, then you have Tour+. If you have Tour, then you will feel the extra "kick" because there is a marked difference between Eco and Tour.

Pedalling along gently, I can switch between Eco and Tour+ and back again and feel absolutely no difference in assistance.

BTW, you'd do well to get your motor software updated by your dealer. You are missing out having "Sport" instead of EMTB. Get him to check that you've got 85Nm as well because Sport seems to go with the 70Nm setting.

 

[Silverfox Baz]

On flat ground, pedal gently in Eco and then switch to Tour without increasing your pedal pressure. If you feel no difference, then you have Tour+. If you have Tour, then you will feel the extra "kick" because there is a marked difference between Eco and Tour.

Pedalling along gently, I can switch between Eco and Tour+ and back again and feel absolutely no difference in assistance.

BTW, you'd do well to get your motor software updated by your dealer. You are missing out having "Sport" instead of EMTB. Get him to check that you've got 85Nm as well because Sport seems to go with the 70Nm setting.

Thanks I’ll try that tomorrow.

 

[Silverfox Baz]

I tried it today on the flat and there was a noticeable boost when I switched from Eco to Tour so I guess I don’t have the upgrade. A bit odd seeing the upgrade was announced in July and I bought mine in October.

 

[Gyre]

I tried it today on the flat and there was a noticeable boost when I switched from Eco to Tour so I guess I don’t have the upgrade. A bit odd seeing the upgrade was announced in July and I bought mine in October.

Not trying to discount @GrahamPaul 's experience, but since I do notice a modest difference on the Eco/Tour+ switch and also noticed a very marked difference going from Tour to Tour+ in the power curve and torque sensitivity, these kinds of tests are too subjective for someone who hasn't already done both IMHO.

That said, the worst that can happen is you go to the dealer asking for Tour+ and it turns out you already had it.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Not trying to discount @GrahamPaul 's experience, but since I do notice a modest difference on the Eco/Tour+ switch

Now that's really interesting. Our perceptions are very different. Subjectivity is always, well, subjective, I guess.

Certainly as @Silverfox Baz has "Sport" mode on the display, he will not have Tour+ mode, which is only available with the EMTB option.

 

[Silverfox Baz]

Now that's really interesting. Our perceptions are very different. Subjectivity is always, well, subjective, I guess.

Certainly as @Silverfox Baz has "Sport" mode on the display, he will not have Tour+ mode, which is only available with the EMTB option.

Thanks both. I'm not really that bothered, just that some seem to think it provides better battery range, which would be nice, but others don't like it, preferring manual control.

 

[GrahamPaul]

I tried it today on the flat and there was a noticeable boost when I switched from Eco to Tour so I guess I don’t have the upgrade. A bit odd seeing the upgrade was announced in July and I bought mine in October.

The same CX motor gets used in a whole host of different bikes which have different "tunes". It's quite likely that your motor was originally part of a shipment destined for a commuter bike. Cube probably just used whatever was to hand to build the bike. It's only a few minutes at any Bosch dealer to get the update done and, I guess, Cube would have expected your dealer to set up and update the motor correctly on delivery.

It's worth doing, especially if (as I suspect) your motor is still tuned for 70Nm torque instead of 85Nm. Also, you are missing out on EMTB, which is one of the greatest assets for steep hill climbing on any ebike!

 

[GrahamPaul]

Thanks both. I'm not really that bothered, just that some seem to think it provides better battery range, which would be nice, but others don't like it, preferring manual control.

It's a Marmite thing. My missus prefers Tour because she wants the extra assistance without having to work for it. I prefer Tour+ because I like the range. So our bikes are set up differently.

 

[Silverfox Baz]

The same CX motor gets used in a whole host of different bikes which have different "tunes". It's quite likely that your motor was originally part of a shipment destined for a commuter bike. Cube probably just used whatever was to hand to build the bike. It's only a few minutes at any Bosch dealer to get the update done and, I guess, Cube would have expected your dealer to set up and update the motor correctly on delivery.

It's worth doing, especially if (as I suspect) your motor is still tuned for 70Nm torque instead of 85Nm. Also, you are missing out on EMTB, which is one of the greatest assets for steep hill climbing on any ebike!

You're probably right. It's a Kathmandu so would be commuting/touring. It was in last week to have a Nyon display fitted. i could have asked them to check then if I had known. I'll take it back in at some point and ask them to check. Thanks again for your advice.

 

[GrahamPaul]

You're probably right. It's a Kathmandu so would be commuting/touring. It was in last week to have a Nyon display fitted. i could have asked them to check then if I had known. I'll take it back in at some point and ask them to check. Thanks again for your advice.

Sorry! I hadn't realised. As you say, this is a touring commuter. You have got the correct software (and it is limited to 75Nm torque) for your model of bike - the dealer did do his job properly.

I'm not sure whether the Bosch dealer software will allow you to change to the mountain bike settings. One of the choice limiting parameters is wheel diameter: which is either 27.5" or 29" for an MTB. Yours is set for a 28" wheel.

 

[Silverfox Baz]

Sorry! I hadn't realised. As you say, this is a touring commuter. You have got the correct software (and it is limited to 75Nm torque) for your model of bike - the dealer did do his job properly.

I'm not sure whether the Bosch dealer software will allow you to change to the mountain bike settings. One of the choice limiting parameters is wheel diameter: which is either 27.5" or 29" for an MTB. Yours is set for a 28" wheel.

Hmmm, in the Specifications for the bike it says it is a Bosch Drive Unit Performance CX GEN4 (85Nm).

This is it from the website:

Key Features Of The Cube Kathmandu Hybrid Pro

• FRAME HPA, High Performance Aluminium
• FORK SR Suntour XCR32 LO-R Air, 100mm, Lockout
• GEAR SYSTEM Shimano Deore, 11-46T, 1x10
• CRANKSET ACID E-Crank, 38T
• BRAKES Shimano BR-MT200
• BATTERY PowerTube 625Wh
• MOTOR Bosch Drive Unit Performance CX GEN4 (85Nm)

 

[GrahamPaul]

Hmmm, in the Specifications for the bike it says it is a Bosch Drive Unit Performance CX GEN4 (85Nm).

This is it from the website:

Key Features Of The Cube Kathmandu Hybrid Pro

• FRAME HPA, High Performance Aluminium
• FORK SR Suntour XCR32 LO-R Air, 100mm, Lockout
• GEAR SYSTEM Shimano Deore, 11-46T, 1x10
• CRANKSET ACID E-Crank, 38T
• BRAKES Shimano BR-MT200
• BATTERY PowerTube 625Wh
• MOTOR Bosch Drive Unit Performance CX GEN4 (85Nm)

Great stuff! The website I'd look up showed the Kathmandu with 75Nm torque - but it was a dealer site and they've got it wrong

 

[Silverfox Baz]

Great stuff! The website I'd look up showed the Kathmandu with 75Nm torque - but it was a dealer site and they've got it wrong

Got my bike back from the service last week and Sport mode has been replaced by eMTB so now have Eco, Tour, eMTB and Turbo. No sign of Tour+!

Unfortunately I wasn’t home when they delivered it back so couldn’t check straight away.

I gave Tour a try from Eco on the flat and still feel the surge so guess it still isn’t Tour+. I don’t know if I can be bothered to take it back again.