New Bosch 2022 Motor System (Bosch Smart System) Announced

[Zimmerframe]

When I think about Bosch, I think of washing machines, drills & lawnmowers, not EMTB’s

I guess that's all just based on consumer perspective though. Where as Bosch are a huge automotive supplier (60%) and many other things. Obviously best known globally for making the most horrible switches and displays for ebikes.

Kawasaki are Kawasaki heavy industries who make massive ships, planes, defense equipment and dabble in engines and motorcycles.

Honda were primarily motorcycle, then car and now do robots and jets - Honda would be the interesting one if they did make an EMTB from the ground up especially after they stunning DH bike.

Like many of these things they get convoluted. Yamaha motorcycles is a separate company from Yamaha. Not sure which part makes their bike motors and bikes though. They're the worlds largest producer of Pianos. But make all sorts of music equipment, jet ski's, golf buggies, skow mobiles, out board motors, robotics and so on.

 

[8o8ert]

Can you output power to your Garmin device yet?

 

[eagerly]

From post #37 again :

500wh Battery : 349mm - 2.9 kg
625wh Battery : + 125wh + 67 mm + 600g
750wh Battery : + 125wh + 68 mm + 900g !

so it's 49cm, at least 13cm less longer that 700WH specy one. maybe if you are fit you can carry one on your backpack

 

[ggx]

I would like to see a lighter system and bike with a kind off 500wh battery. Domage Bosch only went for upgrading with heavier battery.

 

[R120]

200g looking at the Cube as an example ?

I think the weight of the Cube is pretty interesting, as its a good KG lighter than the other bikes we have seen released with the 750, and doesn’t exactly have light components on it, and historically Cubes have been pretty heavy despite the carbon main frame, often as heavy as alloy alternatives.

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

I think the weight of the Cube is pretty interesting, as its a good KG lighter than the other bikes we have seen released with the 750, and doesn’t exactly have light components on it, and historically Cubes have been pretty heavy despite the carbon main frame, often as heavy as alloy alternatives.

As you probably already know, marketing material and real world numbers often differ. Maybe this is the case here?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

As you probably already know, marketing material and real world numbers often differ. Maybe this is the case here?

Cube said in their press live video they were able to shave off the equivalent weight in the 2022 frames so the 2022 total bike weight was near identical.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Looks like Haibike are now 150KG system weight, so no doubt chunkier frame and components but heavier bike weights.

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

Cube said in their press live video they were able to shave off the equivalent weight in the 2022 frames so the 2022 total bike weight was near identical.

That's a lot of shaving! But sure, I guess that is part of the explanation.

 

[Rusty]

I guess that's all just based on consumer perspective though. Where as Bosch are a huge automotive supplier (60%) and many other things. Obviously best known globally for making the most horrible switches and displays for ebikes.

Starter motors, alternators etc are a big market for them. They need to have a bike manufacturer take ownership and do software and astetics development - like Spesh with Brose.

Kawasaki are Kawasaki heavy industries who make massive ships, planes, defense equipment and dabble in engines and motorcycles.

Ddidn't I see a move about them? Planes, Trains & Automobiles

Honda were primarily motorcycle, then car and now do robots and jets - Honda would be the interesting one if they did make an EMTB from the ground up especially after they stunning DH bike.

Oh hell - YES PLEASE. Got to freewheel Gregs RN-01 down a gentle hill when he was over here for the WC. Honda would do a brilliant job I expect.

Like many of these things they get convoluted. Yamaha motorcycles is a separate company from Yamaha. Not sure which part makes their bike motors and bikes though. They're the worlds largest producer of Pianos. But make all sorts of music equipment, jet ski's, golf buggies, skow mobiles, out board motors, robotics and so on.

The Yamaha YDX Moro was done by Yamaha Motor Corporation USA as an inhouse project.
I don't like the split frame design but I guess someoene will come up with a frame cover.

 

[Gyre]

Left & right buttons could be for indicator lights maybe (on commuter & cargo bikes)

The Kiox needs at least five assuming they're keeping the general UI design (cardinal directions plus a confirmation button). I'm sure that's driving the controller design.

So for folks who run without the Kiox I suspect it will be a bit like so:

 

[BBear]

When I think about Bosch, I think of washing machines, drills & lawnmowers, not EMTB’s

what do all those Bosch products have in common?….they all have electric motors!

 

[Hamina]

I wonder if they will use the same architecture on commuter side like replacing the 3rd generation CX and other. I guess it would be a bit surprising if the 4th generation CX would be the only one model.

One thing that's interesting that if you can connect a HRM-belt then there could be theoretically a technical option to connect the drive unit through ANT+ or Bluetooth to a bike computer?

I guess it depends a little on the fact that if Bosch wants to keep it's ecosystem closed or not. Specialized is up to something as they redesigned/defined the interface how external apps connect (like blevo)

It would make sense to be able to use same Garmin/Wahoo/younameit computer on different bikes.

 

[PetrD]

It is possible to upgrade old CX gen4 motor to the new one? Will be all mount points the same?
I know, the battery size is different. It's bad question.

 

[Eduardoramundo]

3840g

Mine must be muddy.

 

[Kent]

Bosch eBike Systems unveils new smart system and vision for e-mobility


Headlines:

• New 750Wh battery
• New Kiox 300 Display
• New Handle Remote Controller
• New App to allow custom modes based on rider requirements
• None of this is backwards compatible, its an all new system with new connectors

• The new smart system combines digital developments and significant hardware upgrades to further enhance the eBike riding experience.
• Bosch introduces a new large capacity battery, LED control unit and streamlined Kiox display.
• The new Flow App allows for unparalleled customisation of the riding experience and game-changing over-the-air updates.

Is it going to be integrated to Trek W-bikes?

 

[Bearing Man]

True. I’m sure they could have designed backwards compatibility though and made the decision not to

Thinking about it, if current Bosch motors were capable of customising the power modes, all I’d do is increase the power on all modes and as result decrease overall range, so sometimes less is more!

Bosch motors have always had customisable power levels, right back to the Gen 2 but they never shouted about it so not many realised it was possible! You did need the Nyon controller to do this and the customisable power levels only worked to 15mph so no good if you were running a dongle.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

View attachment 70688
Mine must be muddy.

yes it is….

prob explains the 11 gram difference ?

 

[Kaizer]

Just put down an order for my first eMTB, the Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 HPC Actionteam 750 29", with the new Bosch system. Expecting it to arrive 03/22. Did a lot of research before I put down the payment at my LBS, coming from a Yeti SB130 it was a bit difficult not to wait on their release, but with rumors of €10-12k+ I thought is was a nobrainer to go with the Cube and all that high end spec. and the redesigned frame that looks tits ! (€6700 where I live w/15% pre-order discount)

Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 HPC Actionteam 750 29 actionteam

All-mountain mastery with Fox suspension, Shimano XT 1x12 and new 750Wh battery with fourth-gen Bosch power

www.cube.eu

 

[R120]

beter pic of the LED remote and how it sits on the bars

 

[Zimmerframe]

beter pic of the LED remote and ho wit sits on the bars

View attachment 70736

I just see this ..

 

[remosito]

What would be the benefit if the battery is 48V?

Faster charging. Charging rate is limited by current. By going higher Voltage you can pump in more energy per minute at same current.

 

[Planemo]

Faster charging. Charging rate is limited by current. By going higher Voltage you can pump in more energy per minute at same current.

Charge current is limited by the cells themselves and/or BMS/charging system. It's irrelevant how many cells are connected in series (voltage).

EG a cell rated at a max charge rate of 5A can't take more just because it's connected in series with others to create more volts. The current would still have to remain at 5A, although the charger would simply do it at a higher voltage.

 

[cemoz]

beter pic of the LED remote and how it sits on the bars

View attachment 70736

Geez thought the old one was bad enough, does anyone in the design department at Bosch actually ride emtb’s

 

[Doomanic]

Geez thought the old one was bad enough, is anyone in the design department at Bosch actually able to see???

FTFY

Has Stevie Wonder joined the design team?

 

[Mteam]

How can they get the controller so wrong!?

I think theyve got the motor and batteries bang on right, and overall are probably the best motor/battery combination, but the controller/displays just ruin it. MtBers buy the system despite the controller/displays.

All they need to do is look at what other manufacturers are doing.......

 

[Planemo]

How can they get the controller so wrong!?

Agreed, I prefer my 'archaic' Purion which has speed, distance, battery level, buttons etc all on one small screen. The only thing of any worth to me on the new system is the handy extra 125Wh but even then at a nearly 1kg consequence it's a debatable point given the weight of the bike as it is!

 

[Timochka69]

IMHO, the idea of the switchgear is good, but the design looks quite awful. I like the idea of being able to use it without the display unit, and the fact that it gives more information than say the little Shimano unit. I wish it was smaller.

 

[PetrD]

What should have to be changed on kiox/nyon21 to allow updating the motor unit firmware?
And what should have to be changed on kiox to allow user settings the power curves or at least some kind of a constant for multiplying the total motor support? (That allows a finer power reduction by user for longer battery life)

 

[Waynemarlow]

Charge current is limited by the cells themselves and/or BMS/charging system. It's irrelevant how many cells are connected in series (voltage).

EG a cell rated at a max charge rate of 5A can't take more just because it's connected in series with others to create more volts. The current would still have to remain at 5A, although the charger would simply do it at a higher voltage.

Correct but if you have 13 cells in series all charging at x number of Watts, then it’s only reasonable to assume 10 cells at X Watts is going to take longer to charge a pack to 720 Wh’s than the 13 cells.