New Bosch 2022 Motor System (Bosch Smart System) Announced

[aviserated]

This is aimed at new emtb riders/ buyers. It is not worth upgrading from my 2020 gen 4 to this model with same power output.

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

So a "TCU" without lights ...

Yet .... it gives to possibility that it will/could have mode/power lights - like a Spesh TCU - which means there might be a handlebar controller due down the line without the unnecessary items like bow thruster control and quick dial.

It seems as if the "+"-button doubles as light switch (image below).

The left/right arrows are for swiping left or right on Tinder.

 

[Philly G]

This is aimed at new emtb riders/ buyers. It is not worth upgrading from my 2020 gen 4 to this model with same power output.

I agree that the fact the motor is essentially unchanged makes upgrading less attractive to existing gen 4 owners. I'm not sure if I would bother with customizing the modes either, for myself I find EMTB perfect right out of the box. I would however love to be able to update the firmware myself, and I think this is something Bosch could have made available for the existing Kiox with a simple software update.

 

[Hamina]

I would however love to be able to update the firmware myself, and I think this is something Bosch could have made available for the existing Kiox with a simple software update.

What if it was mandatory to change all electronics in the drive unit to make the over-the-air updating possible?

I don't know what problems I would currently solve on my Bosch CX 4 by updating the firmware. There has been no real changes in the last two-three updates.

 

[BBear]

As I’ve just bought a new Trek Rail my first reaction when Rob posted this up was ‘bloody hell’. Now having thought it through and seen what it all means and what the reaction has been I’m not at all bothered.

Bigger battery is too heavy - I’m happy with 625, esp compared to the 378 I had on my old Focus Jam2. If I get a new bike in the future I want it to be lighter not heavier.

Controller - looks like something out of Star Trek. No thanks.

Kiox display - looks like the old one. I quite like the Kiox on my Rail as I like having all the info tho I appreciate not for everyone.

App - this is useful for tweaking, but tbo I’m quite happy with emtb mode and I don’t feel a desperate need to change anything.

 

[knut7]

It's difficult to say how much heavier the 750Wh battery really is. Unless I'm mistaken, the frame lock mechanism is integrated in the battery. Or possibly just parts of the mechanism. That means fewer parts in the frame and reduced weight. But the Powertube 750 will of course be at least 500 grams heavier due to more cells.

 

[RustyMTB]

The 750 is 900g more than the 625. The 625 is 3.3kg, so the 750 comes in about 4.2kg give or take.

Same as Bbear. While the Purion is a wart. Otoh when I ride, I'm focused on where I'm going, what the bike is doing beneath me & all the rest of it. Also never felt the need to customise the modes, EMTB is decent off the shelf & mixing tour & EMTB, my 25kg push iron with a 625 is good for 50 miles, more than enough for a big day out. Nice things are nice to have but for me this solves a problem I don't really have.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The 750 battery is 4.4KG

 

[Doomanic]

There has been no real changes in the last two-three updates.

Err, Tour+???

 

[Doomanic]

How much does the Spesh 700Wh weigh?

 

[sunstoner]

I've never been bothered by the purion display tbh but I wouldve loved the ability to customise the power modes. Seems theres a few things that can be tampered with and not just how much power each mode has.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

How much does the Spesh 700Wh weigh?

3840g

 

[Zimmerframe]

From post #37 again :

500wh Battery : 349mm - 2.9 kg
625wh Battery : + 125wh + 67 mm + 600g
750wh Battery : + 125wh + 68 mm + 900g !

 

[Tubby G]

There’s a new Yamaha motor too, the PW-X3 with upgraded controller

PW-X3

High end sport motor

global.yamaha-motor.com

 

[Jimbo Vills]

The 750 battery is 4.4KG

View attachment 70364

That's some weight gain on the battery. Although looking online 'claimed weight' for the 2021 Cube 160 HPC Action Team Spec bike

625wh - 24.1kg
750wh - 24.3kg

So that gain has been offset a fair bit. Mainly down to the fixed battery but guessing elsewhere too.

How that weight is placed and handles time will tell, but that extra battery and 200g of weight will surely see a range improvement on what is already a very efficient system from what i've seen.

 

[Zimmerframe]

3840g

And for reference, the Spesh 500wh weighs 3135g.

So in terms of comparison :

Bosch 500wh - 2.9kg's , Spesh 500wh 3.135kg's

Spesh 700wh : 3.840kg.

Bosch 625wh : 3.5kg's
Bosch 750wh : 4.4 kg's.

The Spesh 500wh uses 18650 cells. The 700wh uses 21700 cells. If the 700wh used the same cells as the 500wh then proportionally, it would be about 4.4kg's. Likewise, if Spesh made a 21700 cell 500wh battery, it should be about 2.75kg's instead of the 18650's 3135g - but they don't.

 

[Tubby G]

There’s a new Yamaha motor too, the PW-X3 with upgraded controller

PW-X3

High end sport motor

global.yamaha-motor.com

This controller seems far more discreet

Interface X

Featuring a minimalist, simple and ergonomic design, the new Interface X is an LED communication unit that allows users to enjoy every second of the ride

global.yamaha-motor.com

 

[Philly G]

What if it was mandatory to change all electronics in the drive unit to make the over-the-air updating possible?

I don't know what problems I would currently solve on my Bosch CX 4 by updating the firmware. There has been no real changes in the last two-three updates.

I was meaning version updates, and the new modes like Emtb Lite, Tour+...it would be great to be able to experiment with these without having to take the bike into the shop, as well as being able to change wheel size, crank length etc yourself

 

[knut7]

Yeah, I didn't intend to ask about the weight of the 750 The point was the weight isn't comparable. To my understanding, components for the lock mechanism has been moved from the frame to the battery. This makes the frame lighter and the battery heavier. So the net weight increase should be way less than 900g.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Yeah, I didn't intend to ask about the weight of the 750 The point was the weight isn't comparable. To my understanding, components for the lock mechanism has been moved from the frame to the battery. This makes the frame lighter and the frame heavier. So the net weight increase should be way less than 900g.

200g looking at the Cube as an example ?

 

[sunstoner]

There’s a new Yamaha motor too, the PW-X3 with upgraded controller

PW-X3

High end sport motor

global.yamaha-motor.com

Sounds a good move does this. Yamaha dont appear to be sitting still atm.

 

[sunstoner]

This controller seems far more discreet

Interface X

Featuring a minimalist, simple and ergonomic design, the new Interface X is an LED communication unit that allows users to enjoy every second of the ride

global.yamaha-motor.com

I wonder if theres any backwards compatability for those PX2 users fancying an upgrade.

 

[Tubby G]

Sounds a good move does this. Yamaha dont appear to be sitting still atm.

It’d be great if Kawasaki, Honda & Suzuki started making e-motors too and the Japanese manufacturers made some emtb’s. Partnered with Shimano components. Maybe in 5-10 years they will, time will tell

 

[sunstoner]

It’d be great if Kawasaki, Honda & Suzuki started making e-motors too and the Japanese manufacturers made some emtb’s. Partnered with Shimano components. Maybe in 5-10 years they will, time will tell

I suppose if motorbikes are going to be all electrified up at somepoint then possibly Honda, Kawasaki et al might reach a little further into emtbs as theyd already have a similar(ish) tech on their mainstream bikes right!?

 

[Hamina]

It could be be possible that by fully redesigning the whole system it's now possible to introduce new controllers in the future.

 

[Tubby G]

I suppose if motorbikes are going to be all electrified up at somepoint then possibly Honda, Kawasaki et al might reach a little further into emtbs as theyd already have a similar(ish) tech on their mainstream bikes right!?

No idea, I just thought a Kawasaki Ninja ZX-EMTB would be cool as f*** ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

No idea, I just thought a Kawasaki Ninja ZX-EMTB would be cool as f*** ?

We're getting a bit off topic at the moment ???

 

[Rusty]

One look at that controller and I already know that I will not have a Bosch powered bike for my next one.

That is the crappy controller on the G4 KIOX and it is forking less than useless when compared to other current offerings.
Don't mind the KIOX display too much, but that controller is SHITE.

 

[Zimmerframe]

One look at that controller and I already know that I will not have a Bosch powered bike for my next one.
View attachment 70376
That is the crappy controller on the G4 KIOX and it is forking less than useless when compared to other current offerings.
Don't mind the KIOX display too much, but that controller is SHITE.

You don't like it then ??

Lets be glad Who ever does "Controls" at Bosch Bikes, doesn't make gear systems. Imagine the Bosch 12 Speed - you'd just have 12 levers hanging off the bars to select the gear you want. Except they wouldn't move very nicely and they'd all have a flush smooth finish so you'd have no idea which lever you had your finger on. They might combine it with an enormous Gear Display screen, which just shows a horizontal bar rather than the gear number.

 

[Tubby G]

We're getting a bit off topic at the moment ???

We are, but it’s kind of related. It’s all about brand association and the expertise and experience of those brands.

When I think about Bosch, I think of washing machines, drills & lawnmowers, not EMTB’s

Yamaha however have a long history of designing engines, frames & suspension systems so they are the only motor manufacture (perhaps Shimano too) that I immediately associate the brand with bikes. Makes sense for the other Japanese manufactures to jump on the emtb bandwagon. The Japanese brands are highly competitive with each other and therefore always pushing for innovation, have strict quality control, can mass manufacture to bring prices down, and could easily dominate the e-bike market if they decide to dip their toes into the market