LEVO / KENEVO GEN 2 7.4.2 Firmware Issues

[Ben Turbo]

Hebben ze daar heuvels gemaakt van alle oude klompen?

Thanks for also providing some numbers.

OK .. one positive side to it that you feel the heavy feeling at low charge/voltage has gone.

So, on paper - or the numbers, you're still in theory pulling more or less the same watts you'd expect, but it feels like it has less punch. Is this just at the start or through the whole ride ?

If, as @silverstone says this was communicated to beta testers, maybe the peak draw when fully charged for the first few % has been rounded off so you don't end up with less range due to it upping the available power/amps when the battery/voltage is low. I guess you can't magic the power from thin air.

If this is the case then I guess we need to ask ourselves if we want more "DRAG STRIP" performance at the very start of a ride, but a bike which heavily lacks performance at the end of a ride or if we want much more consistent and usable power for the whole ride ?

I guess for a lot of people the first few % of battery use is just getting to the trail or warming up/plodding your way up the first climb.

The could re-introduce it as "Ludicrous mode" Tesla style .. Or Turbo PLUS !

I wonder if the change also helps extend battery longevity - ie, an improvement in battery health over a longer period of time - so you'd also have a higher powered bike for longer if the battery health doesn't drop off ?

It has less punch and during the whole ride you can feel it.

"DRAG STRIP" performance.

Good question, In Turbo i want the same power as before. In Trail/Eco i want more usable power. So for me the Eco/ Trail is ok as it is with 7.4.2 i don't need "Ludicrous mode" in Eco/Trail. But when i press Turbo i want GODMODE .

I did not notice any extended battery life.

 

[silverstone]

It has less punch and during the whole ride you can feel it.


Good question, In Turbo i want the same power as before. In Trail/Eco i want more usable power. So for me the Eco/ Trail is ok as it is with 7.4.2 i don't need "Ludicrous mode" in Eco/Trail. But when i press Turbo i want GODMODE .

I did not notice any extended battery life.

No, I do not agree! It has around the same power as it had before with around 66% charge.

I think people do not know what "COMPENSATION" means...
There is still 500wh or 700wh in the battery. The Power Output betweeen full and empty battery is only evened out.
That of course means, that there is less power now with full battery! But just for the benefit to have a lot more power with nearly empty battery!

 

[eagerly]

Voltage compensation...if I understood well, it's just as buying a Tesla and use it as a Volvo to save some performance at the end of the trip, but you know you will always recharge it before reaching 20%...for me it's silly...it's not a feature I would like to have by sacrificing all the fun

 

[thewildblue]

When I went from 6 something to 7 with a new motor I noticed the power dropped then. I haven't bothered doing any further updates will just wait for the next motor ( that will be number 4)...its the version with the now useless walk assist. I have a Kenevo with the same motor also, and on the same settings in mission control with the older firmware it feels its got more poke.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think people do not know what "COMPENSATION" means...

 

[thbo]

Voltage compensation...if I understood well, it's just as buying a Tesla and use it as a Volvo to save some performance at the end of the trip, but you know you will always recharge it before reaching 20%...for me it's silly...it's not a feature I would like to have by sacrificing all the fun

I’m not going to argue with you about your opinion, but regarding the Tesla-bit: my Tesla has the same throttle experience whether battery is high or low (except for battery-saving mode when very low). I’m sure ludicrous mode switches this off and pumps all the juice out (and therefore *may* benefit from
a full battery) but that is not what you want for safe daily driving or long trips. A ludicrous toggle has already between suggested as a future Levo app feature in this thread though.

 

[Ben Turbo]

Voltage compensation...if I understood well, it's just as buying a Tesla and use it as a Volvo to save some performance at the end of the trip, but you know you will always recharge it before reaching 20%...for me it's silly...it's not a feature I would like to have by sacrificing all the fun

Exactly, how often do you ride <15% left. And if we get a longer lasting battery, what are we talking about.. 1 mile extra or 5 miles?

The whole Ebike is compensating but that is why i have bought a Turbo Levo. I want back to 7.4.1 or option in MC to set it in 7.4.2 "pussy" (just kidding) mode or Turbo mode.

Or i could replace this with " * I'ts Ben, Only Slower * "

 

[silverstone]

Yes, that's the only way to go.
Spesh really needs to add a button for turning on or off the voltage compensation feature...

I did o lot of long runs with less than 10% juice at the end, and for those runs, the 7.4.2 fw would have been great.,
But your right, most of the rides end with at least more than 30% battery left.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Exactly, how often do you ride <15% left. And if we get a longer lasting battery, what are we talking about.. 1 mile extra or 5 miles?

I don't think you'll get a longer lasting battery like that, sorry, I wasn't clear. I was thinking more that you're battery might have more chance to have say 90% health for longer. So you might for instance have a battery with 90% health for a year or two, rather than 3 months and then after 2 years have a battery with 70% health - obviously that's all entirely hypothetical. But longer term, it would mean you wouldn't have to buy a new battery as soon and your existing battery would maintain a higher performance for longer.

Yes, you'd be slow Ben now ... but at least you wouldn't be Ben the snail in 3 months time..

That said, the change might have virtually no impact on battery lifespans, so it might be completely irrelevant even discussing it !

 

[Zimmerframe]

Again, another way to look at it :

A lot of people were complaining when the Gen3 was released that they'd bought these expensive bikes and now there were newer better versions and they couldn't upgrade (when in fact most of the NEW things are backwards compatible).

At least with the firmware updates, whilst some features might not be what 100% of people want, they at least keep the bikes uptodate with all the features that the latest bikes have.

The voltage compensation is a trade off. Presumably one which has been extensively tested and based on that feedback and testing maybe the minority which wanted a switchable option meant it wasn't considered worthwhile for the presumed benefits it would give - More power at the start of a ride with gradually reducing power through a ride, compared to a tiny drop in power at the start of a ride but that same power available consistently through the whole ride.

Anyway, I only ever ride to flat and then ride home flat, so I'm going to be bias !

 

[TLSP]

It is quite clear than the biggest problem of last update is the lower punch of the bike in turbo mode. Eco and sport are not so important because we dont expect that punch. I said punch and not power because it seems the power is more or less the same than past firmwares but what most of us want and we lost is the acceleration and push like riding an enduro motorbike.

My personal opinion is that last firmware does totally opposite than I need.
If I ride a short route, I want to go fast, smile, full turbo power. I know I dont have time to squeeze the battery and I dont care about the battery level. Is just ride fast and have fun so I want all the punch and I dont care if power is maintained when battery is low because never will go under 50%. Not enough time.

If I ride with friends the weekend, more kilometers, I rarely use turbo, just few seconds for some climbs and I always have an eye on the battery level. Then for me is not bad that bike gives me less assistance when battery is in lower %, that helps me to arrive home.

 

[MrSimmo]

Yes, that's the only way to go.
Spesh really needs to add a button for turning on or off the voltage compensation feature...

I did o lot of long runs with less than 10% juice at the end, and for those runs, the 7.4.2 fw would have been great.,
But your right, most of the rides end with at least more than 30% battery left.

@Specialized Rider Care may be a good suggestion for a future MC/TCU feature - the ability to select "Battery Efficiency" vs "Full Powah" where any voltage compensation could be disabled.

 

[thbo]

@Specialized Rider Care may be a good suggestion for a future MC/TCU feature - the ability to select "Battery Efficiency" vs "Full Powah" where any voltage compensation could be disabled.

My Rocky Mountain Powerplay’s top assistance level, famous for disproportionately draining the battery compared to the lower levels, is actually called “ludicrous mode”, like the toggle on Teslas which lets hell loose. I wonder whether (and it actually feels like) this also lets it all out raw without regard to any compensation and the sort..

This consumption diagram would suggest as much but I don’t know if it’s wrong (consumption isn’t necessarily power output either). Watts on the left side and assistance level on the right (0=Eco, 1=Trail, 2=Ludicrous/Turbo). Peak power is referred to as 770W officially though.

Anyway, I support the feature suggestion. Specialized will probably default to voltage compensation being on though.

 

[Pyr0]

At the risk of being told I'm bashing, I have to agree with others observations. (And no I don't have any before and after blevo readings)

I updated my 2020 expert a few days ago and I've definitely noticed a drop in power/torque in turbo.
I'm finding I'm having to use higher gears to ride the same hill and the bike just feels slower/heavier.
It's not the end of the world, but I'm getting to the end of my journeys much more tired and out of breath than I was previously and the main reason for me buying an ebike was for the hill assistance. (I hate the hills around here). And yes I admit I am lazy

And yes the settings are (almost) the same as previous too.
I have never used the acceleration setting and always had it on zero.
It is now set to 40% but still does not have the same power

I don't think going by software readings is a true representation of the power produced by the motor as software can alter the torque.

If we could have an option to toggle this behaviour, that would be great. I rarely let my battery drop below 20% before charging again anyway.

P.s. I really do like my Levo, I'm not bashing it. I've had no issues after the brakes were swapped shortly after the bike was collected and Its still on the first motor and battery.
It has had a pretty easy life the last few months just commuting tho.

 

[Mcharza]

It's not the battery, what they are protecting. Maybe it's a belt, because before the turbo mode has too much punch.
And breaking the belt will result in engine replacements.

 

[lumpy]

I use BLEvo and haven't seen any drop in peak power or torque with 7.4.2. I also frequently get down to and below 10% and I appreciate how the voltage compensation keeps me from doing the walk of shame!

 

[eagerly]

I use BLEvo and haven't seen any drop in peak power or torque with 7.4.2. I also frequently get down to and below 10% and I appreciate how the voltage compensation keeps me from doing the walk of shame!

Can you share a log? A chart? With comparison of before-after? Otherwise this thread still remains a collection of personal opinions and sensations...

 

[lumpy]

Can you share a log? A chart? With comparison of before-after? Otherwise this thread still remains a collection of personal opinions and sensations...

Peak power of the motor with 7.4.1 was 715W
Peak power with 7.4.2 was 720W

 

[Ben Turbo]

I went for a ride today, on 742 and also was missing the "punch" as i have mentioned before.

BUT.... Mayby i have changed my mind.

2 Turbo Levo's. I am on 7 4 2. Other on 7.3.6

First we went to Zeist. Pretty flat and easy. All on Eco. All ok.

Then to Hooge Vuursche, more climbing / technical. First ten minutes eco and the rest Trail.
Few climbs on Turbo.

There was no real difference between us. And both the same time on eco or trail.
But at the end (last 5km) the 7.3.6 was <15% and i was above 20%. So it was Meep Meep for me and the anchor for the 7 3.6. And even when i was <15% it was still going.

The 5% difference at the end could be that my mate was using more power from the motor, but still it was no problem for me with "less punch" to keep up with him. We also did some testing in Turbo and could not notice that i was slower.

Conclusion: yes the turbo is less punchy but did i realy missed it... No

The next ride there are 2 bikes on 7.4.2.

@Zimmerframe voor de buren, die weten wel welke bergen ik overwonnen heb vandaag

 

[Zimmerframe]

@Zimmerframe voor de buren, die weten wel welke bergen ik overwonnen heb vandaag

Glad you enjoyed the ride !

Ik zal het ze vragen. Dan kunnen we praten over de met sneeuw bedekte toppen van Holland! ??‍

 

[Stompweaver]

I have being running 7.4.2 for some time now and I haven't noticed a difference in the performance of Turbo however I rarely use it, if ever, and much prefer the increased range however marginal. I do longer rides on my 2020 Kenevo so every little bit of extra range is much appreciated. I also like the idea that battery life may be better given the cost of replacement!
I understand the frustrations of owners who do feel like their bikes have less power in the mode they use most but surely it's better to have a little bit extra range and also less chance of the motor failing mid-ride? Surely it's an acceptable compromise?
For me voltage compensation is a positive not a negative.

 

[RebornRider]

My thoughts exactly, Stompy! My almost-daily ride is about 50% eco / 50% trail. 7.4.2 feels the same to me.

Edit to add the elevation profile (in feet and miles - sorry! I'm too old to change.). I switch from eco to trail starting with the main climb and while I'm up on the ridge. Then back to eco for the descent and the ride home on the flat.

 

[drm31078]

I posted on a separate post, but just saw this thread....

Brand new 2021 Levo Comp...first time setting up with MC.

If I turn on the bike it will connect with MC no problem. If I am just sitting there adjusting the MC settings, with no activity on the bike, it will disconnect within 2-3 minutes and it says "reconnecting". However, I figured this out:

1) I am able to reconnect if I cycle the power on / off on the bike
2) I am able to reconnect if I cycle through the modes on the bike.

It's as if the TCU stops transmitting a bluetooth signal after 2-3 minutes of bike inactivity. Once the bike becomes active (cycle power or change modes), the TCU bluetooth signal is enabled again and it reconnects with the phone.

I haven't been on a ride yet to see if it will disconnect while riding and not changing modes.

Can anyone else confirm this happens to them? Just turn on the bike, connect to MC, and let it sit there for 5 minutes to see if is disconnects.

 

[TLSP]

Yesterday whent for a "long ride", 2 hours 43Km +1000m. My target was doing it fast, not technical, all the time trail mode. As I said last week, in eco or trail with that target, new firmware is ok, there is not apreciable difference.

BUT... I decided to buy my LEvo after a test in a bike park, bikes tuned by specialized to have fun, fast accelerations, dynamic response... you know. As I also told last week, when we look for that in turbo mode, the bike has changed its behaviour. I think that is the reason some of us are not happy with turbo now and others don't mind or can not feel it.


Anyway, If specialized sold some of us a bike after a test, the bike should be like the one we tested, not reduce performance for their safety (I say their because all the bikes under warranty, in my opinion, they reduce performance to have less motors or batteries to replace)

 

[Zimmerframe]

@TLSP you are nothing if not consistent.

You do understand that the forum is not just a place to say what you don't like, but can be used to solve problems ?

Pretend this was the "I can't see" forum. If you kept just saying "I can't see" and didn't provide any more information or answer any questions people asked .. then you probably still wouldn't be able to see. If you answered some questions and provided more information, forum members might work out that you needed to buy a torch - because it was dark.

Even better, your electricity company also watch the forum (as Specialized do here) and if you'd provided information, they also worked out that the power had been cut by a falling tree to your house and that you weren't actually blind for half the day.

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but if you don't provide any information (as asked at the start of the thread, in the thread and in the other threads) then your approach is none productive and pointless.

You've made it clear since your arrival that you think Specialized are ripping us off because if they used different voltage thresholds, the batteries could hold more power and your other opinion :

not reduce performance for their safety

When Voltage compensation was introduced to provide linear power delivery through the whole of the ride.

As stated before, you might have a problem with your bike. But if you don't provide the information and just keep stating your conspiracy theories, then you won't move any further forwards with regard to identifying the issue and then rectifying it.

 

[thbo]

An update on the failed OTA motor update to 7.4.2, which turned motor unresponsive.

LBS has taken a look at uploaded advanced diagnostics and conferred with Specialized which recommended “forced” update by cable at LBS. It looks like very few others have experienced this, so don’t know whether it’s a seldom edge case or if there’s another problem present too. Will find out at LBS some day soon.

Another update on the failed OTA motor update to 7.4.2.

LBS did a forced cable update on Saturday and everything was then fine again. I would put this down as the OTA function of the app not being totally safe. But I can’t say it seems very widespread an issue. I have confirmation that Specialized has my logs so there may be app updates.

It was ridden by a friend the rest of this weekend and he was very happy with it. To the point that he bought it off of me I am now Levo-less, and I have to say my Rocky Mountain is definitely not that finetuned. And the battery, though almost the same size as the Levo’s, lasts half as long (well, much shorter at least). I have to agree with some of you that the greater punch of the Rocky doesn’t outweigh the constant battery anxiety.

 

[TLSP]

If I brought a 50 megapixel camera and a firmware reduced the file size to 40 megapixels or if I brought a 300hp car and after service it was reduced to 250
hp I would be unhappy. Same thing with 7.4.2 in Turbo mode. It used to be me x4 like in all the Specialized advertising, now it’s me x3 if I am lucky. It’s just not cool.

Now will come Mr. Zimmeframe asking you for data, curves or files to show to us. Many of us are feeling it so something has changed 100% sure.
In 30 minutes I am going to the specialized dealer to talk to him about it and will ask him to contact specialized importer about that, I think will be more productive.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think will be more productive.

It can't be any less productive than just repeating .. repeating .. repeating .. that you think it has less power but not giving anything more than that for anyone to work with ! Believe it or not, we heard you the first time .. The forum font doesn't get smaller with time.

What I've not worked out, and this is obviously a fault of mine, is why you think repeating it will suddenly make it different ?

Does this work normally for you guys who have "THE PROBLEM" ?

Come on, please, help us a bit and maybe we can make some progress.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Not sweep it under the rug as you appear to be trying to do.

So my REPEATEDLY (in response to your repeated claims) asking for more information, some screen captures, some evidence or something of some sort other than just your feeling .. is sweeping it under the rug ?

When in fact isn't it the complete opposite ?

By trying to get some EVIDENCE from you guys, it's to try to work out if this is actually happening on certain bikes so we can find out why.

Whilst just repeating EXACTLY THE SAME THING and continuing to provide nothing, not even motor serial numbers and proof you have 7.4.2, eventually just makes everyone think you're having a bad day and are making it up or have some other technical issue, like a battery problem. - especially as 99% of the people who have the update DON'T have an issue.

As far as we know, you don't even have a bike !

Specialized won't ever step in on the thread if no one gives anything to work with. They'll just presume you're some trolls from Moscow-Cruz worried about your entry into the global market.

Don't you get that if there is a problem, we'd like to help. That's why we're here typing this crap.

 

[lumpy]

Per BLEvo:
Peak power of the motor with 7.4.1 was 715W
Peak power with 7.4.2 is 720W