LEVO / KENEVO GEN 2 7.4.2 Firmware Issues

[RebornRider]

I do not need an app to tell me that something changed.

You need data to indicate *what* has changed, and by how much. Don't think of it as an app if the idea of apps bothers you. Think of it as a way to measure power that is repeatable. Do you want the construction crew to build your house by eye? Or would you prefer that they use rulers?

 

[RebornRider]

Read the thread.

What makes you think I didn't?

 

[Jim c]

I didn't feel any difference in the behaviour of the bike after the update so no complaints here

 

[Denpot29]

I recently put firmware 6.4.0 back onto my bike as a test, in turbo I now think it’s noticeably faster.

 

[thbo]

I recently put firmware 6.4.0 back onto my bike as a test, in turbo I now think it’s noticeably faster.

That doesn’t sound like a good idea. When Specialized had transitioned to the new improved version of the Levo motor last summer, and provided extended warranty for all 19/20 Levos, they also said they had discovered a bug in the previous firmware which gave insane spikes in power for milliseconds and contributed to belt failure. The new firmware they urged everyone to update to for free was 7.3.6 at the time.

 

[Denpot29]

That doesn’t sound like a good idea. When Specialized had transitioned to the new improved version of the Levo motor last summer, and provided extended warranty for all 19/20 Levos, they also said they had discovered a bug in the previous firmware which gave insane spikes in power for milliseconds and contributed to belt failure. The new firmware they urged everyone to update to for free was 7.3.6 at the time.

I was running the latest 7.3.6 firmware, I wanted to see if it had been tamed over time so reverted back to 6.4.0 for a couple of rides just as a test, it’s got more power. However I will be putting the latest firmware back on the bike.

 

[silverstone]

How did you revert back to an earlier software version?

I think with "Turbo Studio"...

 

[silverstone]

Even if you find a pirate copy from the software, I would not think that you can use it without a proper registration...

 

[salko]

Is it correct that only dealers can use this software?

Yes, dealers only.

 

[TLSP]

I talked yesterday to my dealer.
He confirmed me new software is "smoother" than previous and dont have that kick that we miss.
I asked if said that because other customers comments and said yes but mainly because with their last trainings with specialized, they told them that new firmware and new 2.2 motors are more and more "progressive". The official version is to make the bike more similar to natural human power. The real thing is to have less motor issues, repairs and belt problems. Not said by me, said by the dealer.
This morning he called specialized to talk about other subjects and I asked him the favour to at least tell them my "problem" with last firmware. He advanced me it will be more useful if I send an email to specialized because they dont listen too much this kind of questions directly from him. He talked to them and the summary of that questions is "It is what it is".

 

[TLSP]

Thanks for this. I think we need to keep this issue alive, at least until the most obvious YouTube eMTB'ers weigh in. The bike is smoother now and the walk mode is better, I am working harder and adapting my style to suit the changes. But I brought this bike over other eMTB choices because of the punch they have just removed. So I am dissapointed and will continue to voice my displeasure. Maybe in 7.4.3 they can give us some punch back. It will not happen if we all just roll over and say "it is what it is".

I agree with you.
About next firmware recovers punch, it will be great but If they did to SAVE motors, I dont think they will do. I am going to write Specialized an email to tell them, that bike is not the one they gave me to test and not the one I bought.

 

[Zimmerframe]

As we've said. Specialized have been completely open about previous firmware updates making changes to the microburst power delivery and trying to make power delivery smoother (including an additional 2 years warranty on 2.1 bikes which shipped without that firmware update) - to improve motor reliability - which is something 99.99999999999999999% of owners would like.

The selling point was you but 4 times stronger. Now its you x3

If you've lost 25% of your power, then you have another issue rather than the voltage compensation update - which virtually everyone else feels gives them more or less exactly the same assistance in Turbo as they had before the update to 7.4.2 . Like a faulty torque sensor, cable issue, battery problem.

In 4 pages of the same comments from you, literally all we know about you both and your bikes is that you both have four letter capital letter user names - which is pretty rare in itself.

We don't know what bikes you have, what motors you have, what serial number/manufacturing date motors you have, what size batteries you have, what temperatures your batteries are, what your charge states are, what your battery health is, what your previous firmware was - if you even really have 7.4.2 firmware on your bikes now. You say you don't have the equipment to provide any of this - a phone with Mission Control Installed ??

In all these posts, neither of you have provided ANYTHING tangible about your issue other than your supposed feelings.

I honestly have no idea what you want to get out of this your actions don't reflect those of someone who wants to resolve something. @RPNZ you brought back to life a 2 year old post yesterday about the old 1.3 motors firmware update to give 20 amps (nasty Specialized giving people more power - it's a lot faster than the bike I bought - I'm not happy) - and steamed in with your usual "The firmware update has caused me to loose power" - yet you had the audacity to accuse @RebornRider of not reading threads when he was kind enough to explain that you needed to provide some real life information. Your response was exactly what a troll spammer would say, all your responses are about avoidance - I just don't get it.

If neither of you give any proof or evidence, how can you possible expect anything to happen. As I've already said, Specialized won't join in the thread as there's nothing to go on - yet now you're writing to Specialized - good luck with that if you give as much information as you have here.

If there is a problem, all you've done is make it harder for anyone to take it or you seriously and we have 4 pages of ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE !

Painful.

 

[Zimmerframe]

What are you actually defending.

I thought it was pretty obvious ? I'm defending the premise that if someone has a problem, no matter what it is, if you want to find out what the problem is and fix the problem you need more information from the person than them just keep telling everyone they have a problem ?

I thought I'd made that clear on several occasions ? Like every post ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

The problem is the 7.4.2 firmware update.

For YOU ! it is - or you think it is !

So to fix your problem, rather than 5 pages of saying the same thing ..

Just goto your Spesh dealer, tell them you don't like the 7.4.2 update. Ask them to downgrade it to the previous version.

Ride your bike, be happy, enjoy.

A SOLUTION ! Problem >> solution ! .. life can be simple sometimes.

For TLSP - he thought he had less power before he had 7.4.2 - so can you see why that just makes the whole thread even more stupid.

 

[Pyr0]

sorry Zimm, but it's not just him, I came from the 6 series firmware to the latest and have to use lower gears to climb the same hills in turbo now.
It's not the same power but i'm not complaining if it really does prolong the life of my motor. I'm just trying to get used to the new firmware and hope maybe it can be restored or toggled in the future.
Either way it's still a great bike and it's still a LOT easier to ride uphill than my old (non-e) bike.

2020 Turbo Levo Expert

 

[TLSP]

For YOU ! it is - or you think it is !

So to fix your problem, rather than 5 pages of saying the same thing ..

Just goto your Spesh dealer, tell them you don't like the 7.4.2 update. Ask them to downgrade it to the previous version.

Ride your bike, be happy, enjoy.

A SOLUTION ! Problem >> solution ! .. life can be simple sometimes.

For TLSP - he thought he had less power before he had 7.4.2 - so can you see why that just makes the whole thread even more stupid.

I am not sure what is wrong with you. The only thing that has sense to deffend this as you do is if you have any special interest (???) dont know.

I dont have to show you any serial number or any of my details. Now I am in contact with my dealer. He told me he can not downgrade firmware. (already asked).

It seems you see some paranoid thinks like the RPNZ and me are the same??? Crazy TLSP = Turbo levo SPain, my imagination really good that day.

Have you a turbolevo with 2.1 or 2.2 motor? Did you compare it to previous firmware by yourself?

I already contacted Specialized about this and confirmed they have my email (just waiting news from them).

I will post news for the ones have same problem and are interested.

I copy here the email sent to Specialized for your information. It was in spanish so translated directly by google so maybe there are some mistakes in the translation.

Good Morning.

After the last firmware update on the turbo levo, I notice that the initial thrust of the bike, especially in turbo mode, has dropped considerably.
I bought the bike a few months ago after taking a test in one of their
bikes and I opted for its model, discarding other brands, precisely because of the momentum of the engine in turbo mode despite having other disadvantages
but that extra push made up for me. Now that feature has been lost and I am not satisfied at all with it. I would love that, please, you could give me a solution to this problem and be able to enjoy the bike that I bought and now it is not.

I await your news.

Thanks and regards.

 

[Zimmerframe]

sorry Zimm, but it's not just him, I came from the 6 series firmware to the latest and have to use lower gears to climb the same hills in turbo now.

If you look at the pattern, for most people they don't notice any difference, they're even pulling the same power more or less as they were before. It would be logical if the peak power was slightly less as it's dropping the "peak" a tiny bit to effectively "give that back" when the battery is lower, so presumably the way the battery calculates/displays it's percentage left is different now also.

The weird thing is the people like yourself who are describing a relatively large drop in assistance. Having to use lower gears would be like the peak power dropping from 100% to 80% , or dropping from Turbo to Trail. Smaller amounts and your body would compensate.

So does something different happen on some motors/batteries ? Do a few have slightly different electronic components which aren't delivering the current they should be ? This is why I wanted more info. It might be that a batch of motors all produced in say January 2020 or a batch of batteries from December 2019. Does Mission Control/Blevo show these bikes sticking out ~720w peak in Turbo with a fully charged none cold battery or not ?

We know the power delivery is smoother, so presumably it ramps up slightly slower, but that shouldn't limit the peak power to the extent which is being discussed - so you shouldn't find yourself having to climb in lower gears.

Anyway, it's evident that we won't be solving anything here as no one is willing to participate and each time I ask for more information I'm only accused of "defending" ..

So, good luck all, hope you get it sorted one way or another.

 

[salko]

The selling point was you but 4 times stronger. Now its you x3

I'm not saying there is or there is no reduced power or punch with latest firmware, but before the latest upgrade if your input was 250W the motor assisted you with 1000W? No? Are you sure? If no, then I suggest you returen the bike to LBS and ask for money back because your not getting 4x you out of it.

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

The problem is the 7.4.2 firmware update.

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback you have given on firmware 7.4.2.

We have looked into your reported issues and we have seen a couple of causes. We have sent you a private message.

Thanks,

Thomas, Specialized Team

 

[lumpy]

Yet again I will share the power output difference between the two firmware versions per BLEvo:
Peak power with 7.4.1 was 715W
Peak power with 7.4.2 is 720W

For those of you who's "seat of the pants" feeling tells you the power is down with the new firmware, I'd say your ass is misinforming your brain.

There's no power loss. It's power delivery is just smoother and more natural. If you need more punch, get something with a throttle

 

[TLSP]

Yet again I will share the power output difference between the two firmware versions per BLEvo:
Peak power with 7.4.1 was 715W
Peak power with 7.4.2 is 720W

For those of you who's "seat of the pants" feeling tells you the power is down with the new firmware, I'd say your ass is misinforming your brain.

There's no power loss. It's power delivery is just smoother and more natural. If you need more punch, get something with a throttle

I have something with a throttle called KTM 250 but I was not missing her until I updated firmware.

 

[Moderator]

OK Guys, I'm going to cut in here.

Zimmer originally asked us to create this thread in the hope that we might track down what causes the potential anomaly for some people with the 7.4.2 update and not just base it on peoples "seat of the pants" feelings.

This is a minority and does not affect the majority of users, so to just says it's 7.4.2 is not helpful to anyone.

We made it very clear in the first post that unless some relevant information was provided by anyone who thinks they have a problem, their posts would be deleted.

We hugely appreciate that Specialized are here on the forum and take the time to read the threads and help people out when they can, at the same time we have to respect their time and if we want them to work with us - we have to give them some information to work with.

@lumpy Thanks for your Stats.

@Pyr0 Thanks for Including a screen capture

@RPNZ Now that you finally included a serial number, Specialized can at least check out your bike on their systems and see what's going on.

All we have here is 5 pages of people saying absolutely nothing useful.

Frankly, it's like listening to an old Lady complaining that she's convinced her Horlicks isn't as hot as it used to be.

Therefore, we'll be cleaning the thread of anything which isn't directly helpful. If you think you have a problem and want to participate, please provide the information which has been asked for. If you don't that's fine - don't post anything. Any further random posts on 7.4.2 elsewhere in the forum will be deleted as they're just wasting peoples time. Anyone posting more pointless opinions to this thread will be locked out of the thread.

It's your choice guys. Either work towards finding out what's going on here and help, or don't.

Thanks.

 

[Moderator]

Censorship in any language.

The Irony is amazing.

A thread seemingly dedicated to complaining about something without providing any factual information.

Then when it's pointed out once again that in order to participate in the thread (as stated in POST 1) that you need to provide information - you complain ?

Please remember that this is a private forum, you're here because we've accepted you. Your post suggests that you don't wish to participate, yet you have an active conversation with Specialized which will hopefully lead to some form of resolution of your issue ? If you're not happy and want your account terminating, just send me a PM.

We don't have any problems with anyone saying they think they have power loss problems with 7.4.2 - there is not censorship as you put it.

As I've explained, we'd like to take this opportunity to try to find out what's causing this problem and work towards helping Specialized identify it and fix it - which, if I've understood correctly ? Is actually what you want ?

I'm starting to understand why Zimmer was getting so frustrated.

 

[Moderator]

Who is "we" just for my edification?

We - are other forum members.

I think it is up to other forum members to decide if I am being unhelpful or repetitive.

We are - you're being repetitive.

As I believe Zimmer tried to point out - We/The Forum/It's members - are trying to help. Please take that into consideration. Specialized have made contact with you because you finally provided the information other members asked you to provide to help with your situation. Had you provided it sooner, you would have received help sooner.

 

[Norange]

Hopefully this is helpful - but if not I won't be miffed if it's deleted.

I've worked with embedded firmware before - not in the same field but I think it's relevant.

It's possible that a firmware change can have a different result for different users. Clearly it's not what you want, but there are different scenarios, for example:

• Could be an underlying fault/tolerance issue with some products and not others.
• Code could have been tested with a limited variation of hardware.
• Code may not load as expected in all cases.

For a manufacturer, it's incredibly helpful to have detailed engagement with end users, as this will increase the speed of analysis and make it more likely that issues will be resolved. I know it can be a pain, to feel like you are doing R&D when you're not happy with the change. But it is worth it, trust me. The team involved want to get to the root of the issue and make you happy again.

 

[Pyr0]

I just wanted to mention that I'm not complaining and I have no issue if the update really does prolong the life of my motor. This is my first ebike and it's still much easier to ride uphill than my old bike was.
I just posted earlier, really just to say that @RPNZ wasn't the only person who had noticed the difference.

I had held off updating from 6something due to the walk mode, but its been working great with the latest firmware to get up stairs

 

[Norange]

Thank you, this is constructive. I will do my best to try and understand Blevo and Mission Control apps and see if I can offer some technical information that will be useful.

No worries, hope you can get it sorted to your satisfaction.

 

[TLSP]

Hi, reply from Specialized FYI, nothing new.

Thank you for contacting Specialized

With the latest firmware updates we aim for the Turbo Levo to have a more natural power delivery by default. We seek to make the acceleration of the bicycle more progressive and make all assistance modes more progressive and usable in most conditions, circumstances and users. This change in power delivery does not limit the engine torque or the maximum power that the system exerts, what varies is the power delivery curve making the process of reaching maximum power / torque more progressive. This change in power delivery also contributes to the bike's range increasing slightly.

The way to get similar behavior to previous firmware is by increasing the throttle response levels in Mission Control and slightly increasing the power peaks in the modes. Unable to roll back the firmware to a previous version

Sincerely

 

[Banktramp]

Just my two cents worth, after the update you did put the acceleration response back upto 100%. The update resets it to zero, worth a shot

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

Hi @Specialized Rider Care .
only just seen this thread but since I updated my bike (2020 Turbo levo comp) I occasionally have what I can only describe as a 'false start' where I will try to pedal away and it feels as though the bike isnt detecting my input for a second and cuts out and back in again.
the transition feels harsh, worse than if you just stop pedalling normally and then start again.