Levo Gen 4 Levo Gen 4 Rumours and some facts...

[Doomanic]

That Whyte looks pregnant...

 

[mustclime]

The Rob R interview is a couple nuggets in it about upcoming specialized projects.

 

[galaga187]

The Rob R interview is a couple nuggets in it about upcoming specialized projects.

Any specifics please? I couldn’t pick them out sounds like a nice guy.

 

[Mikerb]

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s not like the original elyte is lacking in power.

I was merely pointing out another brands approach to meeting the mix of requirements some of you guys wanted. That being to have a full enduro spec bike with a proven full power motor that is around the 20kg mark if used with the just the integrated battery but includes an extender for longer rides whilst not impacting on centre of gravity and ride feel. It's an alternative approach to the Amflow and another option for Specialized to consider for any new Levo.

Another approach would be to include 2 batteries of different capacity with each bike sold, either of which could be fitted in the downtube...... or a modular battery system.

 

[Phil M]

As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

I trail ride - exactly what the Levo is/was designed for, an extra 2kgs means nothing to me… but I’d much rather 900+wh without using a range extender so I can cover more and more ground. On my current Levo I max out at about 5500ft and 30 miles (90kgs and fit)

2 battery options seems the way to go here, just like the Canyon.

 

[Mikerb]

As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

I trail ride - exactly what the Levo is/was designed for, an extra 2kgs means nothing to me… but I’d much rather 900+wh without using a range extender so I can cover more and more ground. On my current Levo I max out at about 5500ft and 30 miles (90kgs and fit)

2 battery options seems the way to go here, just like the Canyon.

There are 2 trade offs if a larger battery is used. The first is gross weight as you mentioned but possibly more important is how that impacts on the centre of gravity of the bike and therefore the handling of the bike.
There is also an impact on frame design especially in the smaller sizes

 

[Phil M]

There are 2 trade offs if a larger battery is used. The first is gross weight as you mentioned but possibly more important is how that impacts on the centre of gravity of the bike and therefore the handling of the bike.
There is also an impact on frame design especially in the smaller sizes

Of course, and that’s why it would be great idea to offer 2 battery sizes depending on usage.

There’s likely as many people who want a heavier bike with a longer range at the expense of not quite as sweet handling, as the lighter weight more agile bike.

I ride long, fast and steep rocky stuff so the weight and range works for me.. my mate who I ride with likes twisties in the woods so he’d go for the lighter bike.

It’s so easy to offer both and the consumer can make the choice.

 

[mustclime]

Any specifics please? I couldn’t pick them out sounds like a nice guy.

Genie shock comments, mixed wheel comments, geo is settled…..

 

[electricbogaloo]

As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

I trail ride - exactly what the Levo is/was designed for, an extra 2kgs means nothing to me… but I’d much rather 900+wh without using a range extender so I can cover more and more ground. On my current Levo I max out at about 5500ft and 30 miles (90kgs and fit)

2 battery options seems the way to go here, just like the Canyon.

2kg is a lot. Obviously you won't notice it the more tame/straight line you ride. But the more aggressive you ride twisty/narrow stuff the more you will notice it. But I think it also depends on the rider weight and fitness how much he or she notices the weight of the bike. A very skilled and physically strong rider won't be struggling as much with a heavier bike on dh trails than a rider who is relatively light/weak/inexperienced.

A heavy bike is mostly good for straightlining not too steep stuff without braking. As soon as it gets/steep twisty or if you have to maneuvre tight off camber stuff and have to lift the front of the bike or jumps every 100 gram will help you.

 

[gbcoke]

The most critical aspect for weight and its effect on the feel of the bike is weight distribution.
specifically the front triangle weight which determines a lot how a bike handles.
When you have a 2kg battery/motor in the dt the bike will feel much nimbler than a bike with a 4 kg battery and 2.9kg motor even if the total difference is small.
You can feel it the most on a bike like the lapierre glp3, a 24+ kg bike the has no battery in the dt and handles like a lightweight bike (a very impressive bike btw).

 

[Geas]

As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

I trail ride - exactly what the Levo is/was designed for, an extra 2kgs means nothing to me… but I’d much rather 900+wh without using a range extender so I can cover more and more ground. On my current Levo I max out at about 5500ft and 30 miles (90kgs and fit)

2 battery options seems the way to go here, just like the Canyon.

It sounds kind a strange, but on my Kenevo SL, I’ve noticed that after adding the range extender I do not really feel any major changes of the bike’s handling. However, after removing it - such as when taking off the empty extender and doing some more laps with just the internal battery - the difference is very noticeable, with the bike feeling definitely more responsive and better handling.

 

[electricbogaloo]

You are probably starting the ride with full batteries after you didn't ride at least over night or for a few days/weeks but when you remoce the extender its more like a back to back comparison.

 

[Harold]

2kg is a lot. Obviously you won't notice it the more tame/straight line you ride. But the more aggressive you ride twisty/narrow stuff the more you will notice it. But I think it also depends on the rider weight and fitness how much he or she notices the weight of the bike. A very skilled and physically strong rider won't be struggling as much with a heavier bike on dh trails than a rider who is relatively light/weak/inexperienced.

A heavy bike is mostly good for straightlining not too steep stuff without braking. As soon as it gets/steep twisty or if you have to maneuvre tight off camber stuff and have to lift the front of the bike or jumps every 100 gram will help you.

Totally agree, it is not because MTB got a motor than suddenly weight becomes irrelevant!

 

[rzr]

As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

That's true for most sunday warriors that just do "normal" rides etc...

but for someone that rides enduro/dh etc. 2kg is noticeable, and more noticeable is where those 2kg are ! and more battery means more weight is closer to the headtube.
even on bikes with similar weight I can feel when battery is higher and closer to head tube (bike is less manouverable), than on some bikes where battery is a bit lower and closer to a motor.

 

[mustclime]

2kg is a lot. Obviously you won't notice it the more tame/straight line you ride. But the more aggressive you ride twisty/narrow stuff the more you will notice it. But I think it also depends on the rider weight and fitness how much he or she notices the weight of the bike. A very skilled and physically strong rider won't be struggling as much with a heavier bike on dh trails than a rider who is relatively light/weak/inexperienced.

A heavy bike is mostly good for straightlining not too steep stuff without braking. As soon as it gets/steep twisty or if you have to maneuvre tight off camber stuff and have to lift the front of the bike or jumps every 100 gram will help you.

Cuz dirt bikes can’t climb at all and they can’t turn. I ride a Kenevo, it takes a little time get used to the weight and long wheel base. A little upper body strength is a big help and you have to pay attention to your rear wheel path. Long heavy bikes like my Kenevo also climb like a goat on steep tech.

 

[Phil M]

So if it was to get a bigger battery…

Isn’t the current 700wh 4/5 years old now? Surely more up to date battery tech should mean a 900wh is possible within the same size/weight. What would be nice if they did that and make it backwards compatible - like they did the 700 to the older 500… that way I’d just keep my current bike

 

[sluette]

Any news about the release date here?

 

[rzr]

Most important thing is that battery and motor are low and close to BB - so the handling is affected in minimal way (not like Bosch systems), and reliability is better

 

[Dax]

Cuz dirt bikes can’t climb at all and they can’t turn. I ride a Kenevo, it takes a little time get used to the weight and long wheel base. A little upper body strength is a big help and you have to pay attention to your rear wheel path. Long heavy bikes like my Kenevo also climb like a goat on steep tech.

Sure they do. But I bet if you took 10% off the weight of your dirt bike, you’d notice the difference.

 

[xtraman122]

So if it was to get a bigger battery…

Isn’t the current 700wh 4/5 years old now? Surely more up to date battery tech should mean a 900wh is possible within the same size/weight. What would be nice if they did that and make it backwards compatible - like they did the 700 to the older 500… that way I’d just keep my current bike

There really hasn't been any new "battery tech" recently, this seems to be a common misconception, there's another thread about it as well. They've gotten better at slimming down the casing and minimizing the extra hardware that goes along with the battery, but the same 21700 cells have been used for a while now.

 

[Polar]

There really hasn't been any new "battery tech" recently, this seems to be a common misconception, there's another thread about it as well. They've gotten better at slimming down the casing and minimizing the extra hardware that goes along with the battery, but the same 21700 cells have been used for a while now.

The world is working hard to develop new energy and battery technology but it's also a lot of scams since these companies borrow money from the government because private sector don't want to invest yet and in Norway Freyr borrowed millions from the government last year and went bankrupt shortly after, this year Morrow got millions from the government.
I bet China will be the winner while US and EU will lose a lot of money trying to beat China in new battery technology.
Hopefully within a couple of years we will see a battery revolution no on ever dreamed about.

 

[xtraman122]

The world is working hard to develop new energy and battery technology but it's also a lot of scams since these companies borrow money from the government because private sector don't want to invest yet and in Norway Freyr borrowed millions from the government last year and went bankrupt shortly after, this year Morrow got millions from the government.
I bet China will be the winner while US and EU will lose a lot of money trying to beat China in new battery technology.
Hopefully within a couple of years we will see a battery revolution no on ever dreamed about.

Yeah new stuff is definitely coming, namely solid state battery tech, but none of it is incorporated into production e-bikes yet, not even close.

 

[AussieRuss]

If

So if it was to get a bigger battery…

Isn’t the current 700wh 4/5 years old now? Surely more up to date battery tech should mean a 900wh is possible within the same size/weight. What would be nice if they did that and make it backwards compatible - like they did the 700 to the older 500… that way I’d just keep my current bike

If the new Gen 4 bike is a 48Volt System as suspected then backwards compatibility to the current 36volt Gen 3 system wont work.

 

[xtraman122]

If

If the new Gen 4 bike is a 48Volt System as suspected then backwards compatibility to the current 36volt Gen 3 system wont work.

Like they would have had any backwards compatibility anyway…

 

[AussieRuss]

Jus had a look & the current 36 volt levo 700 watt/hrBattery looks to weigh 3.977kg
The Brose 48 Volt 814 watt/hr battery weights 4.0kg
Not sure if the 700 battery weight includes bash guard etc but it looks like the new 48volt 814 battery only weighs 23grams more

 

[rzr]

it doesn't depend on voltage. there is just a lot of cells connected in serial-parallel way...
(however higher voltage can improve efficiency a bit)

 

[Luison]

Yeah new stuff is definitely coming, namely solid state battery tech, but none of it is incorporated into production e-bikes yet, not even close.

It seems that semisolid for drones are becoming available Diamond 21.9V 6S 35000mAh 10C Semi Solid State Li-ion Battery - 35Ah 7

 

[electricbogaloo]

I fear is that they will have a non (quickly) removable battery to stay competitive and have a larger battery.

This will shed between 0,5 and 1 kg.

Cuz dirt bikes can’t climb at all and they can’t turn.

I ride a Kenevo, it takes a little time get used to the weight and long wheel base. A little upper body strength is a big help and you have to pay attention to your rear wheel path. Long heavy bikes like my Kenevo also climb like a goat on steep tech.

The ride feel is totally different. You can't do the same stuff on a dirtbike than on a mountainbike. Yes, you can ride most mtb trails with a dirtbike but it will be a totally different experience.

 

[salko]

If

If the new Gen 4 bike is a 48Volt System as suspected then backwards compatibility to the current 36volt Gen 3 system wont work.

Won't happen. There is even no official compatibility between gen1 and gen2 Levos SL and these two have literally the same ebike platform ...

 

[xtraman122]

Won't happen. There is even no official compatibility between gen1 and gen2 Levos SL and these two have literally the same ebike platform ...

Exactly, there is zero incentive for them to do this. Backwards compatibility doesn’t sell bikes.