Levo Gen 3 Levo Gen 4 2023/4/5/6 Rumours...

[gbcoke]

Who's comparing ?
Mahle's sl motor is a 2kg+- motor meant to have lower torque from the beginning.
If anything, the bump to 50nm and it being quieter on the same unit proves it was a solid motor all the time .
It was never a full size motor detuned to lower nm so I really don't get your point ??
There are many high power motors with much (MUCH) lower issues than Brose,It is a fact !
The new peak3 looks promising for sure,but it doesnt mean Specialized will use it.

Interesting times for sure

 

[salko]

Who's comparing ?
Mahle's sl motor is a 2kg+- motor meant to have lower torque from the beginning.
If anything, the bump to 50nm and it being quieter on the same unit proves it was a solid motor all the time .
It was never a full size motor detuned to lower nm so I really don't get your point ??
There are many high power motors with much (MUCH) lower issues than Brose,It is a fact !
The new peak3 looks promising for sure,but it doesnt mean Specialized will use it.

Interesting times for sure

You may ask yourself how many 90Nm+ motors does Mahle have in the wild for 5+ years?

 

[gbcoke]

Would you rather choose a motor from a brand that had so many (unsolved) issues for 4 years or give a chance to another brand that you already work with and are happy with their product/service ?
In any case, I'm not 100% sure they will use the new Mahle, but I am sure they have tested the new motor they chose extensively.

 

[OZI]

Launch of the new Levo to be expected in Sep. presenting the S-Works and Pro models first - with Brose Peak 3 motor as far as speculation goes on in German E-MTB News forum.

For myself I would appreciate the new Brose motor in the Levo Gen 4, even if size reduction will be around 15 % only and still 2.9 kg as the prototypes of the Peak 3 have shown and despite new competitors with smaller/lighter full power motors (e.g., ZF and DJI) on the horizon. Love the feeling and energy efficiency of the current Brose S-Mag. German E-MTB News online magazine has experienced a Pike 3 prototype early this year in the field and stated a comparable feeling regarding power delivery and low noise development as with the S-Mag. New competitors have to show POC in the field first (heat management, dynamic power delivery, energy efficiency) incl. customer service network.

Any further insider news?

The weight difference between the DJI motor (2,52Kg) and the Brose Drive³ Peak motor (2.9Kg) doesn’t bother me if that means a more reliable and more silent motor.

But the 468Wh Brose battery (+-3Kg, or 156Wh/kg) compared to DJI 600Wh (2.9Kg, or 207Wh/kg), Shimano 630Wh (2.9Kg, or 219Wh/kg), Bosch 400Wh (2Kg, or 200Wh/kg), seems to heavy.

And it’s a small battery (Wh) for a full power e-Bike. In the other hand, the 814Wh battery, presented at the same time as the 468Wh and the Brose Drive³ Peak motor weights 4.1Kg, or 199Wh/kg, a ratio that is more in line whit the competitors.

I don´t understand why the smaller battery isn't a 600Wh with 3Kg, or 199Wh/kg?!

 

[gbcoke]

200-230wh per kg is where most modern batteries will be for my25 (Orbea and BH lead with 630wh at 2.7kg).
The "new" Brose batteries where shown more than a year ago so I think tha't why they are bit lagging behind.
I'm sure they will use an open system so each brand will have many options.

 

[mustclime]

200-230wh per kg is where most modern batteries will be for my25 (Orbea and BH lead with 630wh at 2.7kg).
The "new" Brose batteries where shown more than a year ago so I think tha't why they are bit lagging behind.
I'm sure they will use an open system so each brand will have many options.

You really should change your name to “Brose hater”. If Brose ever fix their water egress issues they will be unbeatable. My LBS sells Cannondale and most of them have Bosch units. Anyone that thinks there are no issues with Bosch units are not seeing what I am….. what ever, as long as people keep using a hose on their e bikes, there will be issues.

 

[gbcoke]

You really should change your name to “Brose hater”. If Brose ever fix their water egress issues they will be unbeatable. My LBS sells Cannondale and most of them have Bosch units. Anyone that thinks there are no issues with Bosch units are not seeing what I am….. what ever, as long as people keep using a hose on their e bikes, there will be issues.

Hater ? It's only bikes man, relax ! Sounds more like you work for Brose if anything...
All I'm pointing out is there are numerous indications here the Levo won't use Brose and I'm giving my
honest opinion as to why it's sounds logical to me.
Also,really hope the peak3 will great and keep Brose in the Ebike market !
Options are good (most of the time) !

 

[electricbogaloo]

The current brose is still the benchmark if you want the most silent motor. But it's still a bit unclear how much more reliable the motor got with the updates.

 

[TheSnowShark]

This will probably not please some people, including me first..

Sorry, but it's in French, use Google translate if necessary

Comment ces nouveaux moteurs de vélos électriques seront presque impossibles à débrider

Le fabricant de moteurs pour vélos électriques Brose dévoile sa sécurité pour ses Drive3 Peak Drive, repoussant les modifications.

www.frandroid.com

 

[sluette]

No Problem, I never understood the reason to tune an e-bike…

 

[TheSnowShark]

When you only ride on private land, or even on difficult mountainous terrain, this measure is difficult to understand..

But I can understand that it bothers or offends some people who live in a big city world..

 

[Rohai]

One that doesnt breakdown at all i hope..

 

[zerofunds]

I want the bike to rip before I care about the motor, if I cared about the motor I wouldn't be on specialized

 

[mustclime]

This will probably not please some people, including me first..

Sorry, but it's in French, use Google translate if necessary

Comment ces nouveaux moteurs de vélos électriques seront presque impossibles à débrider

Le fabricant de moteurs pour vélos électriques Brose dévoile sa sécurité pour ses Drive3 Peak Drive, repoussant les modifications.

www.frandroid.com

Good find, hacking e bikes is just fuel for those d*ckheads that want bikes off the trails. Getting caught doing 30kph uphill on the trails on a hacked ebike just gives the bike haters ammunition to push land management to ban bikes. Zero respect to the hackers.

 

[Madden126]

I still don't understand the need to tune an ebike, 25kph is already super fast going uphill. A normal bike gets blown away without any chance to keep up.
The only time I feel like it would be nice not to have the 25kph limit is when riding on flat terrain, that thing gets stuck at around 30-35kph, anything over that you have to really push those pedals

 

[Crow]

No Problem, I never understood the reason to tune an e-bike…

We do not need motor/bike manufacturers dictating such things. Warranty being the only exception.

 

[emtbeast]

My thoughts on...

Well the main culprits for the most of the Brose motor failures on the Levo was the belt and the tensioner.
The new Brose Drive³ Peak is obviously a completely different design without the belt. It's internals mechanicaly resemble to a Bosch, Shimano or a Yamaha, so I don't see any reason why the reliability of the new Brose should not be on par with the rest being a new design with the knowledge and experience from the mag s added to this for improvement.

Batterys...Specialized always had their own design and solution for the battery, so I see no reason why the wouldn't do it again.

All the claims of some motors having insane 100+Nm IMO have a hook somewhere. They might have that, yes, but for a short period of time like already seen at Dji.

Also there is the inevitable corelation between Power(W), Force/Torque(Nm) and Velocity(Cadence).

Power = Force x Velocity

So there is probably a narrow cadence window where you can reach those 100+Nm. Why is it also time limited, because there is the legal limit 250W average over a given time period....increasing Torque increases amperage which increases Power...and increasing power also pushes your average higer.

So I am not really sold on these 100+ Nm claims, especially not on 36V systems.

I haven't seen anything full fat from Mahle that would be a candidate for a middrive ebike yet, so they are hiding it so good or there is nothing new, we will see.

Brose has a motor that is obviously being tested in it's last phase, it's 48V(lower battery consumption, because of less internal motor and battery heat losses-a nice example is the Rocky mountain powerplay 48V drive unit that gives some impressive range despite the 100+Nm), it's a new internal mechanical design similar to all other motors and it's 95Nm(a number that's theoretically plausible, especially on a 48V system).

My cards are on the new Brose, but we will see ️

 

[RichMorr]

Just seen on specialized a 2025 Levo comp alloy with maven brakes but it say a 2.1 motor, probs a typo but I think he confirms no cheaper Levo 4 this year

Turbo Levo Comp Alloy

The Levo delivers the unbelievable power to ride more trails through an unequaled combination of ride quality, usable power, and ride-anywhere range. It...

www.specialized.com

 

[Superdad]

Just seen on specialized a 2025 Levo comp alloy with maven brakes but it say a 2.1 motor…

They have been listing a couple of “2025” Levo models for a couple of months. But same frame and only very small changes (to 2.3” tires from 2.6”), with the Maven brakes being the most significant change. My dealer showed me and told me that this allowed him to sell me a 2023/‘24 Comp Carbon for $6,000. Whereas the “2025” was $8,000 (full list being $9K). Needless to say I went for the lovely Sage color in an S3 for $6K.

My LBS is pretty tied in (he and the Spesh rep for his account have been tight for 16 years) and he said that while yes, new introductions are coming, it will be at least spring 2025 before anything arrives to dealers. Given that he just ordered almost another million $ worth of bikes and accessories, Spesh had to be honest with him upfront. (Especially since he got burned a year or so ago—with product that he bought high just before big price drops. Seems that Spesh does not price-protect even their big dealers.)

 

[OZI]

They have been listing a couple of “2025” Levo models for a couple of months. But same frame and only very small changes (to 2.3” tires from 2.6”), with the Maven brakes being the most significant change. My dealer showed me and told me that this allowed him to sell me a 2023/‘24 Comp Carbon for $6,000. Whereas the “2025” was $8,000 (full list being $9K). Needless to say I went for the lovely Sage color in an S3 for $6K.

My LBS is pretty tied in (he and the Spesh rep for his account have been tight for 16 years) and he said that while yes, new introductions are coming, it will be at least spring 2025 before anything arrives to dealers. Given that he just ordered almost another million $ worth of bikes and accessories, Spesh had to be honest with him upfront. (Especially since he got burned a year or so ago—with product that he bought high just before big price drops. Seems that Spesh does not price-protect even their big dealers.)

I know of a few LBS in Europe who are accepting informal reservations (no cash advance) for the new Specialized turbo Levo. They have unofficial information from the importer that the new Levo will be presented on September 30th. Delivery only in October/November for S-Works and Pro, perhaps for Expert too. Comp carbon or alloy version with no date yet, could be December or only in 2025.

 

[Madden126]

I know of a few LBS in Europe who are accepting informal reservations (no cash advance) for the new Specialized turbo Levo. They have unofficial information from the importer that the new Levo will be presented on September 30th. Delivery only in October/November for S-Works and Pro, perhaps for Expert too. Comp carbon or alloy version with no date yet, could be December or only in 2025.

Yup, my LBS showed me the invite for a specialized retailer summit at the end of September, where they get invited to check out new stuff and ride bikes together in the mountains, so seems to match this info. To be clear, I saw the invite with my own eyes, it was not someone spreading the word.

 

[y0sh1mura]

I know of a few LBS in Europe who are accepting informal reservations (no cash advance) for the new Specialized turbo Levo. They have unofficial information from the importer that the new Levo will be presented on September 30th. Delivery only in October/November for S-Works and Pro, perhaps for Expert too. Comp carbon or alloy version with no date yet, could be December or only in 2025.

Do you think Turbo levo and turbo levo SL will be presented at same time?

 

[salko]

SL was updated last year so it will be mostly only new colors for 2025 models ...

 

[y0sh1mura]

SL was updated last year so it will be mostly only new colors for 2025 models ...

Thanks

 

[RichMorr]

 

[Superdad]

Well that EMBN interview was a nothing-burger!
He asked them point-blank when Gen4 would be announced (citing the years intervals between) and they totally dodged the question.

 

[RichMorr]

Well that EMBN interview was a nothing-burger!
He asked them point-blank when Gen4 would be announced (citing the years intervals between) and they totally dodged the question.

See I did not see it as a nothing burger, a lot of talk about the weight pre-empting that is not going to be light weight with heavy duty components downhill tyres probably the cannibals.

A lot of talk about testing to make sure nothing breaks, it implies a new motor has been tested rigorously and all the way through little hits of things to come

 

[mustclime]

No questions about the Kenevo, no talk about water egress into motor. Total crap interview.

 

[oettam20]

Analyzing this video from a marketing perspective, which is the only reason the two Specialized representatives are there, there are several insights we can deduce.

First, that the new Levo has been developed by listening to the real needs of riders.
Second, that the specs on paper will be lower ( not as good as) compared to new offerings (like the new DJI motors and others presented at Eurobike), which is why they say that ‘they are not important and can confuse the consumer.’
Third, It won’t be a featherweight, and therefore, it will weigh significantly more than the 19,9 kg benchmark of the Moterra SL, Orbea RISE LT, AM Flow, because they repeatedly emphasize that they will have solid bikes made with robust components that inevitably increase the weight.

Furthermore, by stressing how the current Levo is still valid, they confirm that they will only present the top-of-the-line models (S-Works and Expert), while the more economical models will continue for several more months with the GEN3.
They don’t say anything explicitly, but between the lines, they are preparing the consumer to evaluate the GEN4 with a different perspective

 

[Miket775]

The only reason that EMBN would be there is that they have been invited by Specialized to ride the new bikes - reading between the lines (and the fact that the marketing guy is behind the camera) is that they have been out riding the new bike that day and all are under embargo/nda to keep things under wraps for the next few weeks.

From all the comments on here and the comments on the EMBN vid id does look like the the GEN4 will be the top 3 models (s-works, pro and expert) and they will continue with the GEN3 for 6/12 months for the alloy which looks to be the case for the current Stumpy range.