Let’s Be Careful Out There - Cannock Chase Mugging

[Mikerb]

This thread started with a story of a situation that became a confrontation and he ended up with extensive injuries. Consider some of the circumstances. It was 2 v 1 and they had baseball bats...he had no weapon. He had responsibility to protect others.....they clearly had none. Were they under the influence of drink or drugs?.....who knows. Would you know how to tackle them??

 

[The Hodge]

This thread started with a story of a situation that became a confrontation and he ended up with extensive injuries. Consider some of the circumstances. It was 2 v 1 and they had baseball bats...he had no weapon. He had responsibility to protect others.....they clearly had none. Were they under the influence of drink or drugs?.....who knows. Would you know how to tackle them??

Have I missed something ..where does it say he had extensive injuries ..and the only baseball item mentioned was a hat ....?
?

 

[Doomanic]

I think Mike is getting his mugging threads confused.

No injury or weapon/threat details have been released as far as I know.

 

[smtkelly]

You guys probably remember this edit for clarilty; this was post here/bike forums a while back as an example it illustrates how easily carrying a weapon can spiral:

Mountain Biker Stabbed by Hiker After Right of Way Dispute - Pinkbike

69-year-old Traphagen was booked in the Whatcom County Jail, Bellingham, for first-degree assault and possession of a dangerous weapon.

www.pinkbike.com

They were 65+ going on 12, neither were breaking the law just being pigheaded and it would have been a comical anecdote if not for the fact the near 70 year old had a knife. Now he's lucky he's only looking at first-degree assault and possession of a dangerous weapon. I bet up till that point he thought that knife was a really good idea.

 

[The Hodge]

Not sure which " You Guys " you are referring to..?
Ive never heard of this ..although I live in Bellingham there are a good few thousand miles between the UK ..and this particular USA version ..

 

[smtkelly]

guys as in 'EMTB forum users' and I referencing carry knifes/weapons for defence in general and how it can spiral negatively.

 

[carlbiker]

guys as in 'EMTB forum users' and I referencing carry knifes/weapons for defence in general and how it can spiral negatively.

ebike ?’s don’t ya know? ?

 

[steve_sordy]

How about something that every biker has a perfect right to carry (even if the product itself is a bit dodgy). A pocket size aerosol can of WD-40.

I was once bothered by a farmer's dog and the third time it had a go at me, I sprayed it in the face with WD-40. It ran off yelping and I have never seen it since. I had second thoughts later and I felt a bit guilty, but at least we know it is unpleasant.

 

[carlbiker]

How about something that every biker has a perfect right to carry (even if the product itself is a bit dodgy). A pocket size aerosol can of WD-40.

I was once bothered by a farmer's dog and the third time it had a go at me, I sprayed it in the face with WD-40. It ran off yelping and I have never seen it since. I had second thoughts later and I felt a bit guilty, but at least we know it is unpleasant.

Tbf that tin of ‘work ya bastard’ might be perfect, you’d need to be able to whip it out gunslinger style though which might not be practical….I’ve never considered taking wd40 out, what else do you take out with you? ?

 

[steve_sordy]

Tbf that tin of ‘work ya bastard’ might be perfect, you’d need to be able to whip it out gunslinger style though which might not be practical….I’ve never considered taking wd40 out, what else do you take out with you? ?

I only took it to deter the dog.

The oddest thing I take with me on a regular basis is a folding saw.
Highlander Wolverine Folding Saw Green
I have a legitimate reason for carrying it, but given the subject matter of this thread, it is not a quick draw device as it is in my backpack.

 

[Mikerb]

Have I missed something ..where does it say he had extensive injuries ..and the only baseball item mentioned was a hat ....?
?

Ah....sorry....not this thread....the one with the guy beaten up by 2 lads with baseball bats. They were not trying to nick his bike but it was an example of the potential results of a confrontation.

 

[galaga187]

@JetSedgwick In the American movies that we see in the UK, the police always turn out in force for just about anything. Never less than two armed officers for even a noise complaint! In the UK, you can get high definition CCTV evidence of the perpetrators, car number plates etc and all you get is a crime number so that you can lodge a claim with your insurance company. Yet they never seem to be lacking in numbers for "hate crimes" which in this country can be perceived as one, therefore they are one; even if they do not meet the legal definition of an actual crime. It appears that anything "woke" is OK, even violent protests. For example the mob in Bristol that demolished and defaced a statue and tipped it in the river, were not hindered by the police who were in attendance.

An informed right up of what happened in Bristol with the removal of a statue of a former slaver who oversaw the deaths of over 18,000 people.

I see a large part of the police’s role is to keep people safe if a few Daily Mail readers or EDL members are offended by the removal of a statue of a slaver then so be it. I’d rather they used the resources to tackle theft and drug problems.

Bristol mayor: Colston statue removal was act of 'historical poetry'

Marvin Rees on the slave trader, institutional racism and his mixed heritage experience

www.theguardian.com

 

[LowStandards]

Each to there own but not defending yourself is weird to me and why discourage it? Should all emtb guys be these pathetic specimens who just simply hand over 7k bikes, if anything that behaviour will just encourage this more so?

Because it's just that, a 7k piece of metal and plastic. That should be insured


ive been stabbed before and to quote Hot Fuzz, it was the single most painful moment in my life. I was also a hero and left them in a very bad state, something I paid for dearly with just over a year.


so, yeah, its the UK, being a hero doesnt work, insure your bike and pay attention.

I'd also note this really isn't a common thing, plus carrying around an American sized personal carry will seriously effect your koms ?

 

[Mikerb]

An informed right up of what happened in Bristol with the removal of a statue of a former slaver who oversaw the deaths of over 18,000 people.

I see a large part of the police’s role is to keep people safe if a few Daily Mail readers or EDL members are offended by the removal of a statue of a slaver then so be it. I’d rather they used the resources to tackle theft and drug problems.

Bristol mayor: Colston statue removal was act of 'historical poetry'

Marvin Rees on the slave trader, institutional racism and his mixed heritage experience

www.theguardian.com

Nice political rant mate but nothing to do with bikes! Better to understand we are all best served by law and order in society to protect both ourselves and our property; and the laws on public disorder and criminal damage include no concessions or justifications. Discretion on implementation is reserved only for the CPS and Courts.
The rationale behind the police not acting in the Bristol scenario was that they had insufficient force to prevent it and had they tried to intervene the resultant disorder could well have resulted in greater public danger. I understand video was taken and 9 of the criminals subsequently identfied, fined, given criminal records, and cautioned with conditions that include public service such as cleaning graffiti.

 

[galaga187]

Nice political rant mate but nothing to do with bikes! Better to understand we are all best served by law and order in society to protect both ourselves and our property; and the laws on public disorder and criminal damage include no concessions or justifications. Discretion on implementation is reserved only for the CPS and Courts.
The rationale behind the police not acting in the Bristol scenario was that they had insufficient force to prevent it and had they tried to intervene the resultant disorder could well have resulted in greater public danger. I understand video was taken and 9 of the criminals subsequently identfied, fined, given criminal records, and cautioned with conditions that include public service such as cleaning graffiti.

I didn’t bring the toppling of the statue into the discussion @Mikerb but did feel a need to respond with some more information on the issue that was raised. The police handled a difficult situation as best they could and I understand the slavers statue is now in a museum.

 

[steve_sordy]

There are legal ways for people to get rid of statues that they object to. If they are unable to do that, or can't be arsed to try, then resorting to what amounts to vandalism is not legal. I cannot be alone in believing that those involved used the history of the man the statue commemorated as an excuse for a riot.

 

[akbud]

You really don't want to do that - as far as I am aware, Pepper Spray is classified as a firearm in the UK and possession carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison!

Move to Alaska and get that pepper spray. I quite literally don't know anyone that does NOT have pepper spray . Sometime ago I had to brake hard to not run into a grizzly crossing the road . Then again...I can't thin of anyone I know that doesn't own a gun but that's another story. Sorry to hear about the stolen bike. If somebody tried to steal my bike I'm sure I'd lose the bike AND end up in the hospital .

 

[Coolcmsc]

Right, now we’re onto pepper spray and Grizzlies, I need to mention Rattle Snakes? I had 2 fantastic MRB holidays in the Rincon mountains near Tucson, Arizona (I’m from the U.K.). Our guide took great pleasure in stopping and getting me and my lad to look at them — saw at least one most days. The only protection we had was the guide who went first… I realise that does leave one or two questions unanswered ???

 

[DMS2610]

I would like to know who the unfortunate guy was and whether or not he was insured. If he wasn’t there’s enough of us subscribing to this website to give a pound or two each and get the guy back out riding? We might even be able to get support from the bike shop for a manufacturer

 

[mak]

I would ring the police and say " I've been attacked " and give them all the details of where I am. I would then tell them unfortunately I am a little busy and need to move on, the attacker is not doing well he's unconscious but I still wont to press charges.

That's how I would like to image my scenario but then again I do like to dream and unfortunately the innocent very really get there justice.
I would also suggest if my scenario above happened for real I would be the 1st to be arrested and prosecuted

 

[carlbiker]

I would like to know who the unfortunate guy was and whether or not he was insured. If he wasn’t there’s enough of us subscribing to this website to give a pound or two each and get the guy back out riding? We might even be able to get support from the bike shop for a manufacturer

That’s a great suggestion, a just giving page setup would be an idea wouldn’t it

I wonder if there’s a non for profit way to build up an insurance business to cover us for theft of bikes….surely if everyone subbed £5/month there would be a way to cover albeit fraud prevention requires

 

[LeftItLancs]

Apparently, 290,000 cycles were stolen in the UK in 2019 and no doubt a much higher figure in reality.

I live in a deprived area of Lancs and cycle theft is fairly common. To such an extent small gangs of youths will casually patrol the back alleys looking for unsecured bikes in the back yards.

I have covered up the branding up on my Cube with reflective tape and joined the National Cycle Database. The permanent security markings can only be removed by damaging the bike, which warns potential buyers (if they are honest) and can also be read by police and PCSO smartphones. No deterrent is 100% but it is just common sense to make it as difficult as possible for these scrotes.

As others have already said pepper spray is illegal in the UK but you can legally buy small canisters that spray a hard-to-remove blue dye.

BikeRegister - The National Cycle Database

Used by all UK Police forces, BikeRegister's marking kits can help reduce the likelihood of cycle theft by 83%. Every year hundreds of cyclists are reunited with their stolen bikes through the BikeRegister database.

www.bikeregister.com

 

[darucla]

Clearly IF you are thinking straight in these circumstances, you should be able to make a judgement call over what action to take.

But you probably won't be thinking straight. https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/counselling/documents/podacst-fight-or-flight-response.pdf

 

[Doomanic]

It's why I always ride with someone slower than me...

 

[Davejm63]

Air Tags? Hidden some on my Bikes. Seem to work. I don’t think they’re the only solution.

View attachment 65891

I have an air tag on my bikes

 

[1oldfart]

In Canada we can carry bear spray

 

[Labrador29]

@JetSedgwick In the American movies that we see in the UK, the police always turn out in force for just about anything. Never less than two armed officers for even a noise complaint! In the UK, you can get high definition CCTV evidence of the perpetrators, car number plates etc and all you get is a crime number so that you can lodge a claim with your insurance company. Yet they never seem to be lacking in numbers for "hate crimes" which in this country can be perceived as one, therefore they are one; even if they do not meet the legal definition of an actual crime. It appears that anything "woke" is OK, even violent protests. For example the mob in Bristol that demolished and defaced a statue and tipped it in the river, were not hindered by the police who were in attendance.

Hi Steve, sadly New Zealand is going the same 'woke' way. Another police officer shot this weekend, and the offender (if not a white man) will get a 15% reduction in sentence for having an unfortunate upbringing. All defence lawyers are claiming this defence if client pleads/found guilty. Don't believe all you read about our female prime minister (Jacinda Adern). She is a dangerous woman and a friend of China with support from her socialist government. Anyone tries to steal my e-mtb, I will put up a fight.

 

[Velo Mangler]

After being aproached by a man with a machete. I carry my gun. Being 30 to 40 miles out . No one can hear you scream.

 

[Manc44]

While this can't be prevented, cops do nothing and perhaps insurance does cover it... the main point is to catch these thieving wankers!

The best option would be a tracker chip if they didn't cost so much to keep it tracked. Since it's 24/7 there's a monthly charge and it's just not worth it for most people. Last time I was looking, those services cost £20+ per month to keep tracking it, on the off chance your bike gets stolen, which most don't.

It's a shame people have to pay through the nose for these things. If tracker chips were something like £30 for the initial chip and £5 per month to track it, that would be more like it, but it costs way more. Also then the company knows where you're going on your bike, which some people might not like the idea of.

EDIT: Oh there's ones where you can track it with your own phone. These are £80+, stick out like a sore thumb and have a subscription charge (one I saw was cheap, £12 a year). I guess if that can be 100% concealed like the ones that fit inside the end of your handlebar, it might be worth it but £80 buys so many other bike parts that actually serve a purpose. If your bike never gets stolen (and most don't) it's just a waste of money isn't it.

Hi Steve, sadly New Zealand is going the same 'woke' way. Another police officer shot this weekend, and the offender (if not a white man) will get a 15% reduction in sentence for having an unfortunate upbringing. All defence lawyers are claiming this defence if client pleads/found guilty. Don't believe all you read about our female prime minister (Jacinda Adern). She is a dangerous woman and a friend of China with support from her socialist government. Anyone tries to steal my e-mtb, I will put up a fight.

What happens when the prosecution brings up the point that a vast majority of people that also had a bad upbringing aren't going around killing people?

 

[Nicho]

What happens when the prosecution brings up the point that a vast majority of people that also had a bad upbringing aren't going around killing people?

No, they became lawyers!