Is the EP8 RS more than just a detuned EP8?

[Silent Drone]

I’m curious to hear experiences, especially from those who have saddle time with the regular EP8 and the RS version. Can you actually feel that there’s something to the “Rider Synergy” that’s supposedly built into this motor, or in real life is it primarily just a detuned version of the regular motor?

 

[Tonybro]

It is a de-tuned version. Feels pretty natural compared to a normal bike. You don't get that 'punch' as you do with a full-power motor.

I have e8000 and Ep8RS and my wife has a pure EP8. On Trail she can pull away slightly on climbs versus my RS and I'm fitter.

Depending on my mood and conditions I will pick either to ride but if the weather is good and conditions dry RS is my go to for that natural feeling even if I am slower on the climbs...

The Rider Synergy comes from the effort you put in. The motor is tuned to work at reasonably high cadence. If you want to stick it in a small cog and spin pedals slowly as you can with full-fat, you will get minimal assistance from the RS...

 

[Silent Drone]

It is a de-tuned version. Feels pretty natural compared to a normal bike. You don't get that 'punch' as you do with a full-power motor.

I have e8000 and Ep8RS and my wife has a pure EP8. On Trail she can pull away slightly on climbs versus my RS and I'm fitter.

Depending on my mood and conditions I will pick either to ride but if the weather is good and conditions dry RS is my go to for that natural feeling even if I am slower on the climbs...

The Rider Synergy comes from the effort you put in. The motor is tuned to work at reasonably high cadence. If you want to stick it in a small cog and spin pedals slowly as you can with full-fat, you will get minimal assistance from the RS...

Thanks for the input. In the video posted today in the other thread the rider talks about how the power of the RS doesn’t come on in full until you get into the higher cadences, saying it’s unlike the regular EP8 where one can put it in the wrong cog and still push through because the power comes on much sooner.

Is that a fair description of the difference?

I’ve had an extended test ride of a carbon Rise but I’ve never ridden a “normal” emtb. I found the Rise to be plenty powerful and I was very comfortable with the higher cadences, maybe because I come from a roadie background.

 

[RustyIron]

Can you actually feel that there’s something to the “Rider Synergy” that’s supposedly built into this motor,

I took my Santa Cruz to the Orbea dealer. After the mechanic went home, I paid his apprentice fifty bucks to plug in his laptop and enable the "Ride Synergy" feature on my Heckler. The bike now feels six pounds lighter!

 

[Mikerb]

Rider Synergy effectively describes no EMTB! ie the combination of rider input and motor response cannot produce a a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects!!
So its just marketing speak and in reality I suspect percentage priority given to cadence and rider torque is much the same as other bikes but obviously both result in a lower power output from the motor.

 

[Tonybro]

Thanks for the input. In the video posted today in the other thread the rider talks about how the power of the RS doesn’t come on in full until you get into the higher cadences, saying it’s unlike the regular EP8 where one can put it in the wrong cog and still push through because the power comes on much sooner.

Is that a fair description of the difference?

I’ve had an extended test ride of a carbon Rise but I’ve never ridden a “normal” emtb. I found the Rise to be plenty powerful and I was very comfortable with the higher cadences, maybe because I come from a roadie background.

That's exactly what I was stating. Higher cadence required for assistance, it ramps up more slowly compared to the full EP8/normal e-bike.

If you've ridden a normal road bike and tried the Rise, you will have noticed the power, if you then would have ridden a full power e-bike, you would have been even more amazed!

 

[b33k34]

Yes, you have to ride the Rise and actually use the gears to get the most out of it. It's much more natural feeling (and, I'd say, fun)

 

[NorthernBloke]

I think you need to think of the Rise as a normal mtb with electrical assist and not a detuned full fat emtb.
I have bumped up Eco in the settings as I found it not worth having and was jumping straight to trail when assistance was needed. I have also upped trail as well so I rarely use turbo now. Turbo allows me to chose more technical climbs rather than choosing the longer easier routes. The power is instantaneous from the first stroke and really rewards a higher cadence, something your lungs might not be able to achieve on a manual bike. It is great to get to the top and not have to get off your bike and have five minutes of gasping for breath. Turbo is also great in the muddy slop with the higher torque, allowing for more traction (using this a lot at the moment...)

 

[b33k34]

I think you need to think of the Rise as a normal mtb with electrical assist and not a detuned full fat emtb.
I have bumped up Eco in the settings as I found it not worth having and was jumping straight to trail when assistance was needed. I have also upped trail as well so I rarely use turbo now. Turbo allows me to chose more technical climbs rather than choosing the longer easier routes. The power is instantaneous from the first stroke and really rewards a higher cadence, something your lungs might not be able to achieve on a manual bike. It is great to get to the top and not have to get off your bike and have five minutes of gasping for breath. Turbo is also great in the muddy slop with the higher torque, allowing for more traction (using this a lot at the moment...)

How long have you had the bike? I started off running both mine and my wife's in profile 2 and with Eco bumped up slightly. But after about 6 months I've mine back to the defaults on profile 1, with my wife's bumped a notch on eco and trail to make us more equal.

I think maybe if you're chasing people on full fat bikes the whole time you might end using more power, but while I initially found default P1 eco a bit underwhelming I'm ride nearly everything in that setting now. Fitness may be a factor.

 

[NorthernBloke]

Into my 9 month on my Rise with +2000k+ of riding. The main reason is I have a heart condition AF which I didn't know about but went berserk due to getting covid. Not the fittest guy don't pretend to be but climbing could/would trigger an attack which is why I bought an eMTB, otherwise I wouldn't be riding.
Question if you ride everywhere in eco profile 1 why have a RISE?

 

[Silent Drone]

Thanks for all the good input, everyone.

Last month I put in an order at the LBS for an H30 that is supposed to be here in May. Actually paid for it also. I’m really happy with that decision but not enjoying the wait time, lol.

As one does, in the meantime, I’m browsing forums etc. Before May my LBS should have the new Santa Cruz Heckler in and they are also selling this new bike the Scor 4060 Z. This is what has me asking about the differences with the motors. As mentioned previously, I did get to do a long test ride in a carbon Rise last fall and I absolutely loved it. The only knock I had at the time was battery capacity since I used boost a lot and ran out of juice after about 2 hours. I think the larger battery in the H model would address this. I do also plan some upgrades to the H30–brakes of course and also the suspension, as I think I’d like to have a 150 fork and maybe even a 160. Jumping over to the Santa Cruz or the Scor is interesting but at the end of the day I’m not sure I want the weight of a full fat emtb

 

[Snowrydr01]

Thanks for all the good input, everyone.

Last month I put in an order at the LBS for an H30 that is supposed to be here in May. Actually paid for it also. I’m really happy with that decision but not enjoying the wait time, lol.

As one does, in the meantime, I’m browsing forums etc. Before May my LBS should have the new Santa Cruz Heckler in and they are also selling this new bike the Scor 4060 Z. This is what has me asking about the differences with the motors. As mentioned previously, I did get to do a long test ride in a carbon Rise last fall and I absolutely loved it. The only knock I had at the time was battery capacity since I used boost a lot and ran out of juice after about 2 hours. I think the larger battery in the H model would address this. I do also plan some upgrades to the H30–brakes of course and also the suspension, as I think I’d like to have a 150 fork and maybe even a 160. Jumping over to the Santa Cruz or the Scor is interesting but at the end of the day I’m not sure I want the weight of a full fat emtb

I went down the SCOR rabbit hole. There is only one us online distributor and they are only getting ONE 4060 Z LT SLX in medium for the entire year. You have to REALLY want that bike to get it. Its also scary from a warranty perspective when they are that rare.

 

[arod2051]

I think you need to think of the Rise as a normal mtb with electrical assist and not a detuned full fat emtb.
I have bumped up Eco in the settings as I found it not worth having and was jumping straight to trail when assistance was needed. I have also upped trail as well so I rarely use turbo now. Turbo allows me to chose more technical climbs rather than choosing the longer easier routes. The power is instantaneous from the first stroke and really rewards a higher cadence, something your lungs might not be able to achieve on a manual bike. It is great to get to the top and not have to get off your bike and have five minutes of gasping for breath. Turbo is also great in the muddy slop with the higher torque, allowing for more traction (using this a lot at the moment...)

Can you share your settings? I’ve only been on 3 rides so far, but I also find Eco not really useful unless I want it to have the feel of a normal bike or riding flat against a headwind. I am not a fit rider and am also want some guidance on the eTube Steps settings for an EP8.

I suppose as I get more fit, I can modulate the settings to fit my needs.

 

[Silent Drone]

I went down the SCOR rabbit hole. There is only one us online distributor and they are only getting ONE 4060 Z LT SLX in medium for the entire year. You have to REALLY want that bike to get it. Its also scary from a warranty perspective when they are that rare.

My LBS sells a lot of BMC bikes and they have some Scor emtbs coming in this spring. It’s an interesting bike on paper. I’ve seen the analog Scor bikes that they have in stock and those look good.

 

[b33k34]

Question if you ride everywhere in eco profile 1 why have a RISE?

Range. We usually ride until the battery is flat. A bit of trail or even boost for super steep stuff but eco is enough for most.

 

[Mikerb]

Full fat Bosch 85nm...........dont think I have ever used ECO...........maybe once by mistake on a descent. I have an ECO mode on my BMW...never used that either!

 

[BiGJZ74]

Full fat Bosch 85nm...........dont think I have ever used ECO...........maybe once by mistake on a descent. I have an ECO mode on my BMW...never used that either!

I'm the exact opposite, I have a rail 7 and only use eco/emtb lite which is why I ordered my Rise H

 

[ionut.holbia]

I'm the exact opposite, I have a rail 7 and only use eco/emtb lite which is why I ordered my Rise H

I have an Orbea Wild FS with 500Wh battery. I mostly use EMTB and occasionally ECO when I need to save battery. Almost never Boost, too much power for me to control on steep technical climbs.
Last month I’ve tested the Rise H30 and boost is similar to Tour/EMTB on the Bosch. The weight difference was so noticeable and it made the bike much more fun IMO. Now I looking to see my Wild FS and buy the Rise

 

[BiGJZ74]

I have an Orbea Wild FS with 500Wh battery. I mostly use EMTB and occasionally ECO when I need to save battery. Almost never Boost, too much power for me to control on steep technical climbs.
Last month I’ve tested the Rise H30 and boost is similar to Tour/EMTB on the Bosch. The weight difference was so noticeable and it made the bike much more fun IMO. Now I looking to see my Wild FS and buy the Rise

Good to know...emtb lite on the rail is a bit too much power than I need so trail will probably just fine for my needs on the Rise...boost if and when I need it. If boost on the Rise is like eMTB on the Bosch that will be more than I need for 95% of my riding.

 

[1oldfart]

I agree with Mikerb ** So its just marketing speak **
They sell what they think will sell.
Just forget about Ebikes for a minute.
Many mountain bikes are promoted as great climbers who are also great going down.
Many mountain bikes are promoted as great on the way down and on the way up.
Just lingo that sounds good.
Basically the software is generous on the assist side
or more focussed on the distance.
My Yamaha/Giant does all i want with 5 levels.
More distance, more assist.
I do not need 4 Ebikes but if you want buy 4 Ebikes.

 

[Gary]

The sad truth is that it is marketing (BS or not) that creates the buzz that sells us the latest bestest new bikes.
and talking of normal bikes. We're at a point now where plenty modern geometry trail/enduro mtbs are actually brilliant at descending while still managing to remain efficient for climbing. What the marketing for these bikes won't tell you is that a lot of them are actually quite sluggish, unresponsive and ultimately not so much of fun to ride on flatter terrain. But the marketing image of mtb currently seems to be sold almost universally as a day out in knee pads and all the gear riding to descents with climbing as a means to an end often completley ignoring the fact that flatter terrain even exists. Or worse still selling the idea that you now need to buy a gravel bike to have fun on that sort of terrain. when that simply couldn't be further from the truth.

As for the firmware Orbea came up with for the Ep8 for the rise and their term "ride synergy". Yes it is clearly marketing. but I wouldn't say it's anymore BS than the various names (along with descriptions) given to different suspension systems/links etc. by manufacturers to distinguish theirs from other manufacturers.

 

[Barney]

Rider synergy definitely works. Using ST ride app you can see the NM going up and down depending on how much effort you’re putting in and where your cadence is at. This morning running full boost (profile to set at max) I watched the NM go from 23 up to 70 as the trail demanded. When on the flat and just easing before hitting the next hard bit it drops right off because it’s not needed. Hit that power bit up your cadence and bam it pulls all the way up. I’ve only used the E-TUBE app for settings yet it definitely went up to 70nm. definitely a very natural feel to the riding rather than on or off. Loving my rise it’s really brought back my passion for MTB.

 

[Ant_N_Robbo]

HI All,
Just joined the forum today after searching on the EP8 RS. Recently bought the Orbea Rise H15. Really pleased with it so far.
I'm very unfit at the moment and recently did a 26km ride near Eyam in the peaks as the first real test for the bike. Half the reason for buying the Ride H15 was to get fitter so not too bothered about having a full fat 85Nm motor. Mine is on profile 2 (Eco 20Nm, Trail 40Nm, Boost 60Nm). Still had 3 bars left on the display. On trail mode I epexct I could easily get 50 miles before the battery runs out. Only used boost for about 5-10 mins of the trail with 3 huge up hills mainly in trail mode. I would say that the RS does feel a bit more natural to ride and it's a good candidate if you're looking to get fitter at the same time. I am wondering what the internal gears are like in the RS compared to the EP8. If it's purely a software detune then there is a good chance that the RS will last a lot longer as the gears aren't being stressed as much due to the lower torque. I have heard a lot of stories of other motors failing quite early and the warrnaty on most are maybe only a couple of years.

 

[BobR]

How long have you had the bike? I started off running both mine and my wife's in profile 2 and with Eco bumped up slightly. But after about 6 months I've mine back to the defaults on profile 1, with my wife's bumped a notch on eco and trail to make us more equal.

I think maybe if you're chasing people on full fat bikes the whole time you might end using more power, but while I initially found default P1 eco a bit underwhelming I'm ride nearly everything in that setting now. Fitness may be a factor.

My wife and I have been riding our Rise' for almost 1.5 years an average of 2 times a week... We have just moved our eco and trail up a bit and I never go into boost and spend 90% in eco while my wife spends 90% of her time in trail riding with me. I tend to run in an easer gear at a higher cadence than she does. We both like to run faster and longer than when I ride my analog (normally when I ride alone during the week in the mornings) and are both getting into jumping the table tops and I am working on clearing the gaps... When I ride analog, it is more about technical riding and balance which I enjoy as well. We have never gone back to profile 1. After my warranty is over I may switch to keep profile 2 how I have it and do a 150w/30, 350/60, 500/85 for profile 1 just to see. We really like the speed yet the lightness of a bike that happens to have electric assist.

 

[mike_kelly]

I don't think RS is marketing hype at all. It identifies a very different approach to owning an eMTB. Full power speaks to those that don't mind an electric motorcycle. The RS speaks to owning an MTB that gives you a tailwind on demand.
Different philosophies.

 

[Ant_N_Robbo]

Did a flattish 18 mile today. Quite muddy, boggy and swampy in places. Left it on eco for most of the ride and chose trail on boggy bits. Eco (20Nm) takes the edge off having a wide tyred bike and still gives me some good exercise. I didn't think I would use eco much after reading many reviews but it still has its uses on certain rides.

 

[hind-corners]

Did a flattish 18 mile today. Quite muddy, boggy and swampy in places. Left it on eco for most of the ride and chose trail on boggy bits. Eco (20Nm) takes the edge off having a wide tyred bike and still gives me some good exercise. I didn't think I would use eco much after reading many reviews but it still has its uses on certain rides.

In Profile 1 I have set eco in a way where all settings are at min, It's great for riding with manual bikes.
Lv 1/10 20%, 20Nm, St 1/5 150W

 

[Ant_N_Robbo]

Rise H15 EP8 RS. Rode both Monkey and dog trail today at Cannock which is nearly 20km. Left it on trail for the whole 20km (40Nm) and it still made the hills a lot easier. Started on 5 bar full battery (540wh), finished on 3 bar with a trail range of 15 miles. Although initially the trail range was 55 miles so not sure where the missing miles are. Maybe it depends on the amount of ascents. Confirms that I made the right choice with the Rise EP8 motor. Would still like to know if the internal gears are the same as the full EP8 motor. Not changed the default the profile 2 settings as I'm not sure what it would affect and whether I need to.

 

[BiGJZ74]

Rise H15 EP8 RS. Rode both Monkey and dog trail today at Cannock which is nearly 20km. Left it on trail for the whole 20km (40Nm) and it still made the hills a lot easier. Started on 5 bar full battery (540wh), finished on 3 bar with a trail range of 15 miles. Although initially the trail range was 55 miles so not sure where the missing miles are. Maybe it depends on the amount of ascents. Confirms that I made the right choice with the Rise EP8 motor. Would still like to know if the internal gears are the same as the full EP8 motor. Not changed the default the profile 2 settings as I'm not sure what it would affect and whether I need to.

RS is he exact same motor with a software tune.

 

[NorthernBloke]

I recently had my EP8 RS replaced under warranty and it came back from the LBS with a EP8 full fat, 85nM motor.
Can I tell the difference in turbo, yes but I have just toned it down in profile 1 to 70Nm. 85nM was too much and it just lifted the front wheel.
Not a massive distance rider tbh and I use eco mostly, mostly trail uphill (why wouldn't you) and some boost if feeling lazy or on steeper stuff. I still have plenty of battery after my normal rides (20-30km 500-700m climb = 2/3 bars).
I am going to test it in summer over longer rides to see what distance I can get before the blinking red light of doom.