I was aware of ebike hate / jealousy but I thought opinions were changing

[CjP]

View attachment 18687

In fairness to the DH/Gravity crew. I’ve only ever had them say positive things about Ebikes. Almost every time they’ve said they want one.

 

[R120]

In cycling in general, across all disciplines, there has always been a split between those who just love riding bikes, and the fitness warriors who view anything other than enduring physical punishment, earning your turns, obsessing over stats in a way that would make an olympian look lazy, and the bicycle just happens to be their weapon of choice to achieve that.

I haven't met a genuine cyclist who hate EBikes, but I have met plenty of mostly middle age roadies who view them as a personal affront to their quest to top strava.

 

[Will Ridealpine]

In cycling in general, across all disciplines, there has always been a split between those who just love riding bikes, and the fitness warriors who view anything other than enduring physical punishment, earning your turns, obsessing over stats in a way that would make an olympian look lazy, and the bicycle just happens to be their weapon of choice to achieve that.

I haven't met a genuine cyclist who hate EBikes, but I have met plenty of mostly middle age roadies who view them as a personal affront to their quest to top strava.

One previous mtb buddy told me not to wear my self out switching gears. Actually I was just thinking how hard it was switching the gears. Need to make bikes that ride themselves and we can control them from our smartphones while wearing VR glasses.

 

[YrianX]

It's actually a lot of interesting aspects to this discussion, as the "hate" and "opposition" to E-bikes are pretty predictable and based on normal human psychology and behavior, but still complex as hell, due to the complexity of human nature itself. These are just my two cents and ramblings on the topic, read at your own peril. I'm impressed if you can read to the end and avoid being bored to sleep...

Hopefully this will sort it self out in the end through getting the snowball rolling and getting the majority of the population used to the E-bike concept and accept it / embrace it as well as understand it and get rid of a lot of misconceptions. The best all of us emtb'ers can do to help in the mean time is to be friendly and respectful when out on the trails and make sure we are contributing in a positive way to increased acceptance and healthy co-existence. Common courtesy goes a long way.

Personally I think from my experience over the last couple years riding with a lot of ebikers, it has already begun to change and improve, at least here in Scandinavia.

In my opinion, the four major things that combine together to fuel this are:

1. Shattered self esteem for any of the Strava type riders, where the most joy for them comes from being the best and owning the KOM, validating that they are able to do something that others aren't. They connect their self worth to this fact, a very typical "Alpha Male" behavior really.
   
   This is of course shattered and painful for them when someone, that in their view quite obviously are not as fit as them and have no business riding faster than them, pass them, regardless if it is with or without a motor. In their head it's just not right as those people passing have not "payed the correct price" for being able to do that in terms of hours and hours spent building fitness like they themselves have. This behavior will unfortunately always be there for some people, just as some drivers in traffic just HAS TO get ahead and save 5 seconds by forcing their way in front of everyone else, seeing themselves as entitled to behaving that way. It's just a personality trait with some unfortunately (the me first egoistical type) and top performance sports and activities like cycling, has a tendency to draw a lot of these kinds of people. It's very often where they can prove themselves worthy, so to speak.
   
   For them IT IS A COMPETITION, regardless of what we emtb'ers say or think, hence in their mind we are cheating, kind of the same as in some computer games where everyone is upset about the "pay to win" concept where someone with resources / money are able to buy their way to quick(er) results through better gear and equipment, trumping skills built up over a long time practicing and playing by someone not spending money on it. This also leads into the next point, which maybe is the most obvious.
   
   
2. Jealousy. With prices the way they currently are for e-bikes and kit, a lot of people that see EMTBers going past having loads of fun and wish they could participate, plain out can't. And this is very often down to the entry cost. Unfortunately this is sometimes how the world is in all areas. However one of human nature's ways of alleviating that "pain" and feeling of inadequacy, brought on by not being able to afford something they want, is to "hate" and be derogatory about it. Hence we get the "f***ing E-bikers" and "They are only cheating anyways" etc. comments and attitudes. Expressing this makes some of them feel less bad about themselves not being able to do it. I should know, I used to think a bit like that, though not really expressing it or shouting at people, when I had just spent a lot on an analog bike and all my mates went and bought E-bikes, and I felt I could not afford doing the same after having already forked out a lot. Thankfully this should get a lot better for a lot of people as prices of bikes and tech hopefully come down to more reasonable levels and the access to quality used kit for decent prices increases. This is, in my opinion, an integral part of what is needed to really increase the adoption and acceptance of E-bikes.
   
   
3. The 3rd component would be the people "lost in history", the ones that can not accept change and progress on any other terms than their own and whom wish things would stay as they were. These are the typical older generation of walker's you would meet that frown upon these modern monstrosities with motors wreaking havoc on their beloved recreational areas and being an annoyance to them, coming around corners at full bore, looking (to them) as more or less out of control (As THEY can not fathom it's possible to be in control at that speed) , scaring them and making it impossible for them to enjoy nature as they used to in the past. I can fully understand the frustration of this group, but unfortunately the world never stands still, and you either keep up or you are left behind. They often think emtb'ers are inconsiderate and rash and take up all the space leaving none for them and that e-bikers (and normal bikers for that matter) are having fun in the wrong way more or less. Unfortunately they also often fail to see that they themselves are just as inconsiderate when they in reality refuse to acknowledge that other people have the same right to enjoy nature in their own way as well and that we all need to learn to get along, share and be considerate.
   
   
4. Last but not least we have all the misconceptions around e-bikes and what they really are. Some of this is misinformation and misunderstandings, some of it created by people scared of what they don't know, so they assume and even make up theories.As mentioned by many, there are plenty of people out there that think e-bikes are more or less electric Dirtbikes and then logically thinks that emtb's damage trails and nature in a similar fashion. (or at least beliefs in that direction) I think the only thing we can do, while we wait for E-bikes to become more common and the correct knowledge to be more widespread, is to talk to people we meet, show them our bikes and explain how they work. Even if it's not apparent at the time that someone is convinced to change their beliefs, I'm sure there are seeds planted that makes them see the reality over time. Change don't happen over night and convictions most often needs to be converted by the convinced themselves. This normally includes a lot of thinking and mulling things over on their part, not necessarily by other people arguing the reality's merits.

All in all I think we are in a much better place today than what we were just a couple of years ago in terms of E-bike hate, conflict, issues and enlightenment and it will only get better as E-bikes become more affordable and widespread. With more and more e-bike information and content being readily available through both social and regular media and all of the great ambassadors like yourselves out there, it's sure to turn out for the better!

Unfortunately there will always be some that don't agree or somehow feel wronged, that's just life and human nature, like in everything else. Hopefully they will be further and further apart. In those cases, just don't sink to their level, take the high road and either politely ignore them or display common courtesy would be my advice while we await an even brighter electrified biking future!

Y

 

[Will Ridealpine]

It's actually a lot of interesting aspects to this discussion, as the "hate" and "opposition" to E-bikes are pretty predictable and based on normal human psychology and behavior, but still complex as hell, due to the complexity of human nature itself. These are just my two cents and ramblings on the topic, read at your own peril. I'm impressed if you can read to the end and avoid being bored to sleep...

Hopefully this will sort it self out in the end through getting the snowball rolling and getting the majority of the population used to the E-bike concept and accept it / embrace it as well as understand it and get rid of a lot of misconceptions. The best all of us emtb'ers can do to help in the mean time is to be friendly and respectful when out on the trails and make sure we are contributing in a positive way to increased acceptance and healthy co-existence. Common courtesy goes a long way.

Personally I think from my experience over the last couple years riding with a lot of ebikers, it has already begun to change and improve, at least here in Scandinavia.

In my opinion, the four major things that combine together to fuel this are:

1. Shattered self esteem for any of the Strava type riders, where the most joy for them comes from being the best and owning the KOM, validating that they are able to do something that others aren't. They connect their self worth to this fact, a very typical "Alpha Male" behavior really.
   
   This is of course shattered and painful for them when someone, that in their view quite obviously are not as fit as them and have no business riding faster than them, pass them, regardless if it is with or without a motor. In their head it's just not right as those people passing have not "payed the correct price" for being able to do that in terms of hours and hours spent building fitness like they themselves have. This behavior will unfortunately always be there for some people, just as some drivers in traffic just HAS TO get ahead and save 5 seconds by forcing their way in front of everyone else, seeing themselves as entitled to behaving that way. It's just a personality trait with some unfortunately (the me first egoistical type) and top performance sports and activities like cycling, has a tendency to draw a lot of these kinds of people. It's very often where they can prove themselves worthy, so to speak.
   
   For them IT IS A COMPETITION, regardless of what we emtb'ers say or think, hence in their mind we are cheating, kind of the same as in some computer games where everyone is upset about the "pay to win" concept where someone with resources / money are able to buy their way to quick(er) results through better gear and equipment, trumping skills built up over a long time practicing and playing by someone not spending money on it. This also leads into the next point, which maybe is the most obvious.
   
   
2. Jealousy. With prices the way they currently are for e-bikes and kit, a lot of people that see EMTBers going past having loads of fun and wish they could participate, plain out can't. And this is very often down to the entry cost. Unfortunately this is sometimes how the world is in all areas. However one of human nature's ways of alleviating that "pain" and feeling of inadequacy, brought on by not being able to afford something they want, is to "hate" and be derogatory about it. Hence we get the "f***ing E-bikers" and "They are only cheating anyways" etc. comments and attitudes. Expressing this makes some of them feel less bad about themselves not being able to do it. I should know, I used to think a bit like that, though not really expressing it or shouting at people, when I had just spent a lot on an analog bike and all my mates went and bought E-bikes, and I felt I could not afford doing the same after having already forked out a lot. Thankfully this should get a lot better for a lot of people as prices of bikes and tech hopefully come down to more reasonable levels and the access to quality used kit for decent prices increases. This is, in my opinion, an integral part of what is needed to really increase the adoption and acceptance of E-bikes.
   
   
3. The 3rd component would be the people "lost in history", the ones that can not accept change and progress on any other terms than their own and whom wish things would stay as they were. These are the typical older generation of walker's you would meet that frown upon these modern monstrosities with motors wreaking havoc on their beloved recreational areas and being an annoyance to them, coming around corners at full bore, looking (to them) as more or less out of control (As THEY can not fathom it's possible to be in control at that speed) , scaring them and making it impossible for them to enjoy nature as they used to in the past. I can fully understand the frustration of this group, but unfortunately the world never stands still, and you either keep up or you are left behind. They often think emtb'ers are inconsiderate and rash and take up all the space leaving none for them and that e-bikers (and normal bikers for that matter) are having fun in the wrong way more or less. Unfortunately they also often fail to see that they themselves are just as inconsiderate when they in reality refuse to acknowledge that other people have the same right to enjoy nature in their own way as well and that we all need to learn to get along, share and be considerate.
   
   
4. Last but not least we have all the misconceptions around e-bikes and what they really are. Some of this is misinformation and misunderstandings, some of it created by people scared of what they don't know, so they assume and even make up theories.As mentioned by many, there are plenty of people out there that think e-bikes are more or less electric Dirtbikes and then logically thinks that emtb's damage trails and nature in a similar fashion. (or at least beliefs in that direction) I think the only thing we can do, while we wait for E-bikes to become more common and the correct knowledge to be more widespread, is to talk to people we meet, show them our bikes and explain how they work. Even if it's not apparent at the time that someone is convinced to change their believes, I'm sure there are seeds planted that makes them see the reality over time. Change don't happen over night and convictions most often needs to be converted by the convinced themselves. This normally includes a lot of thinking and mulling things over on their part, not necessarily by other people arguing the reality's merits.

All in all I think we are in a much better place today than what we were just a couple of years ago in terms of E-bike hate, conflict, issues and enlightenment and it will only get better as E-bikes become more affordable and widespread. With more and more e-bike information and content being readily available through both social and regular media and all of the great ambassadors like yourselves out there, it's sure to turn out for the better!

Unfortunately there will always be some that don't agree or somehow feel wronged, that's just life and human nature, like in everything else. Hopefully they will be further and further apart. In those cases, just don't sink to their level, take the high road and either ignore them or display common courtesy would be my advice while we await an even brighter electrified biking future!

Y

Started MTB back in 91’, as soon as I saw EMTB bikes, I knew: Ebike allows for bigger tires without having to ride something like a specialized Epic bike with 2.0 tires for climbing, no more clipless pedals because not worried about that much efficent climbing and therefore don’t have to worry about being clipped in and can now wear more comfortable shoes, can now wear more protective gear like removable full face, shin guards elbow pads, knee pads & chest protection without worry about weight and over sweating. Count up all these benefits. You can bet @Rob Hancill would agree.

 

[Rusty]

These are just my two cents and ramblings on the topic, read at your own peril. I'm impressed if you can read to the end and avoid being bored to sleep...

OK, I read it all and did not fall asleep ...... what did I win?

Love reading some good phsyco-babble - we have some real phsycos on here ... notwithstanding @Zimmerframe

Oh - point 5. Some people are just tossers and should be ignored.

 

[comtn]

I regularly read Reddit.com/r/mtb for bits of news, cool progressions videos from people and a bit of discussion. Recently I hadn't seen anything emtb related so I decided to make I post.

I was expecting a bit of pushback from the purists and people who haven't tried ebikes but I tried to highlight the fact that I have brought lots of random friends out to ride with me on a second ebike we have and basically opened their eyes to mtb'ing whether on an ebike or normal bike.

However the post has been completely shot down and there is seemingly overwhelming doom and gloom in some people's mind when they hear ebike or emtb.

I also follow r/ebikes so I know that in America ebikes can be a very different beast to the UK. There seems to be a lot more homemade / electric motorbikes with throttles over there.

Anyway here is a Link to the thread if you would like to have a look or provide a little support.

It’s bazaar. Screw all those analogers that have a problem with e bikes. They’re acting like the Amish in 1900 drawing a line in the sand of progression.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

I generally talk to people along the way and so far have not had a negative reaction. As a friend of mine who is a roadie said the only thing that annoys him is when a e-biker passes you going up a big climb with a sarcastic grin on their face or stupid comment. Like walkers, horse riders etc we all just need to say Hi and be nice. The hate will die down over the next few years as more and more MTB'ers convert to the hated e-bikes. Personally at 60 years old I have put my time in on a MTB and am happy to tell that to anybody this who thinks I have cheated my way to the top of the climbs. Also raised over £5k for charity along the way. Enjoy folks and ignore those who think they are better than you. They are just upset that they have to share their beloved trails with some new folks exactly like walkers were 20-30 years ago, and still often are in England at least they hate you whether ebike or manual

 

[YrianX]

Oh - point 5. Some people are just tossers and should be ignored.

Haha, yeah I guess there is just no getting around that one.

OK, I read it all and did not fall asleep ...... what did I win?

Hmmm let's see... a free of charge swim to the Orkney islands perhaps?

 

[118]

Hmmm let's see... a free of charge swim to the Orkney islands perhaps?

From NZ..? Crikey, that's some prize..!

 

[YrianX]

From NZ..? Crikey, that's some prize..!

Well, would be a good excuse for riding e-bikes to recover if he's heckled on the trails wouldn't you say?

 

[YrianX]

But then again I forgot... no E-bike hate down under from what I read earlier in the thread

 

[Beekeeper]

I guess a similar reaction occurred when Sat Navs came on the scene and seasoned hikers with excellent map reading skills might have felt a little uncomfortable about it and the same when digital cameras appeared. I certainly remember the grief some people received when compact discs came in by the audiophiles who believed their priceless record players produced a superior sound.
How did the expert fire starters who rubbed sticks together feel when someone invented the match?
And I won’t even go into the trouble that Galileo caused to the establishment when he pointed his telescope to the skies.

 

[steve_sordy]

What about that upstart Alexander Fleming then? He only went and invented Penicillin! I wonder how many old farts refused to use penicillin saying, "I think I'll stick to poultices and prayer"!

 

[waldo]

reminds me of this

 

[Shifty]

I just don’t give a flying Duck about what other people think about anything much on this subject. Ride and enjoy I’m too old to worry about other people’s views! I like strava, because it logs my ride... end of... it’s like a diary ! Horse riders hate cars, motorbikes hate cars ... guess what they all bloody drive cars !!!

 

[Streddaz]

Thought I'd thread dig this one as I ride both an Ebike and a non-Ebike and on the Australian Rotorburn MTB forum the anti-Ebike thing has gotten pretty quiet over the last few years and quite a few members now have Ebikes themselves. That was until one posts up a rant with a whole heap of generalising and misconceptions about Ebikes and up popped all these users that had been silent for so long with their own Ebike hate.
Things like "Ebikers always "proselytising" about Ebikes, how they don't do any trail maintenance, hates seeing Ebikes on shuttles, claims that Ebikes are the reason all the trails are getting dumbed down, makes the assumption that Ebikes are why the trails wear out, and claim that all Ebike riders are beginners with no trail etiquette and will end up lost in the middle of nowhere when their battery runs out because they are noobs and can't judge distance.
I had thought most of the hate had disappeared, but I was wrong.

 

[Weeksy]

You only have to look on PB at any article to find the hate.

Results from the Combloux E-Enduro World Cup 2024 - Pinkbike

The fourth round of the E-Enduro World Cup series offered ten challenging stages for riders to power through.

www.pinkbike.com

But i just don't get it. In the last 6 days i've done 3 eeb rides and 3 manual rides, but they're different rides for different reasons.
What i don't get though is the the emergence of Ebikes hasn't stopped development of manuals in any way, so it's in no way detrimental to the manual only riders, it's not like they're missing out by having Ebikes existing.

The good news for me is, i simply don't care whether people like or hate my ebike, i ride it for me, not them

But i don't understand it still that's for sure.

 

[Hoorhay]

r/mtb is super toxic, even for Reddit standards

 

[tooFATtoRIDE]

I ride both type of bikes and I have the following approach to this type of commentary: I do not give a f**k about it.

I do not call it hate speech and I have no desire for anyone to limit it. There is enough censorship around us and we do not need it anymore.

Let them say what they want. Most of them are keyboard warriors so who cares. Some comments are valid, though, like there should be a common engine mount standard or that we ought to be able to use any batteries we want, not those restricted by the manufacturer.

So, all in all, it is usually 50% total BS, 50% valid critique.

 

[BeBiker]

Remember: A Derailleur and Gears is cheating.

 

[Polar]

Remember: A Derailleur and Gears is cheating.

Bigger leg muscle is also cheating

 

[Plummet]

I'll admit to heckling e-bikers when i'm on my mtb when they are going way too slow uphill.
Often times they dribble past at almost mtb speeds.... i'm like wtf, go faster, slap it in boost, work the ebike.....

 

[steve_sordy]

Bigger leg muscle is also cheating

I knew there was a good reason why I wasn't working out!
It's because I didn't want to cheat, of course it was!

 

[Doomanic]

Often times they dribble past at almost mtb speeds....

We can't fucking win! Pootle past and we get heckled for not using Turbo, turbo past and it's the same, we just don't have to listen to the whinging for as long...

 

[Plummet]

We can't fucking win! Pootle past and we get heckled for not using Turbo, turbo past and it's the same, we just don't have to listen to the whinging for as long...

Yep, The moral of the story is to live your life with scant regard of what the cheap seats think.

Go out and ride, have fun.

I like the saying "getting angry is punishing yourself for someone else's mistakes...." Let the complaining mofo's punshing themselves. I suggest when someone heckles you do a wheelie past them and or ride back and forth passing them multiple times just so they can punish themselves more and more..... hehehehahahahahaha.

 

[Nicho]

Thought I'd thread dig this one as I ride both an Ebike and a non-Ebike and on the Australian Rotorburn MTB forum the anti-Ebike thing has gotten pretty quiet over the last few years and quite a few members now have Ebikes themselves. That was until one posts up a rant with a whole heap of generalising and misconceptions about Ebikes and up popped all these users that had been silent for so long with their own Ebike hate.
Things like "Ebikers always "proselytising" about Ebikes, how they don't do any trail maintenance, hates seeing Ebikes on shuttles, claims that Ebikes are the reason all the trails are getting dumbed down, makes the assumption that Ebikes are why the trails wear out, and claim that all Ebike riders are beginners with no trail etiquette and will end up lost in the middle of nowhere when their battery runs out because they are noobs and can't judge distance.
I had thought most of the hate had disappeared, but I was wrong.

This sort of arguement has been going on since the invention of the wheel:

 

[Streddaz]

Remember: A Derailleur and Gears is cheating.

That is similar to my comeback to some of the purists when they start a rant that Ebikes are cheating.
The very point of a bicycle is to give a mechanical advantage to go further and faster than you can on foot. Yes, a non-Ebike is purely leg powered but there's a mechanical aid there and an Ebike just increases that advantage. My advice to them if they wish to be truly pure, they need to give up a bike and only run barefoot and uphill.

 

[Astro66]

People don't like change. They feel like they are missing out when others change and they do not. They also feel that they might become part of the minority, rather than the majority. It makes them feel unsafe.

EMTBs are also significantly more expensive to own and maintain, so some people may feel they are creating an elitist type of cycling that they may not be able to afford. So don't want everyone else changing over, leaving them behind.

It's just human nature. So there really is no need to worry about it.

Europe, Australia and NZ have a very different attitude towards EMTBs. Lawfully there are very few restrictions on where you can ride EMTBs, compared to MTBs. Where in comparison with America, EMTBs are excluded in areas. This is probably more to do with the different speed laws in the US.

These lawful exclusions give fodder for people to say that EMTBs are therefore different, and cause all these additional problems.

Whilst I think the 15mph speed limit is a little low. I think it's what keeps MTBs and EMTBs regarded as peers, where this limit exists, and will speed up acceptance.

It's only time before acceptance becomes universal. But the purists will always reject the technology. Just like telemark skiing and alpine skiing. Some just want to do it the traditional way.