You are having the Invisiframe installed professionally right? ?
Levo Gen 2 I can't afford a new 22 Carbon Levo
- Thread starter Zimmerframe
- Start date
no. I thought to save money on the ridiculously expensive bike I’d buy a few of these.
- Thread starter
- #33
At least with dinner they have something nice to eat and without the movie, they could leave after 30 seconds ???
gbarfoot
Active member
Coming from a moto background I thought $6k ebikes were ridiculous. But now that I have one and get the enjoyment and riding opportunities I do, the cost makes sense.....at $6-7k
However from a logical cost standpoint these prices are getting absurd. Compare to a modern 450mx bike that's around $10k. Look at all of the components, testing and development that goes into those, the frequent model refreshes to compete, and the slim margins involved in that market. 13-15k is outrageous for a bicycle even if it does have a motor.
And I know these are "carbon" and come in 6 sizes...BUT research what plastic injection molds cost and count all of the plastic parts on a moto. The tooling and development costs of just the plastic components alone is a lot.....and that's before you even get to high stress motor components that spin at outrageous RPM and produce incredible power.....and are all controlled by EFI with BT mapping (yamaha) or traction control (ktm)
I love ebikes and will pay a good amount to enjoy them and have fun. But the logical side of my brain says we are being duped and trained to think this is what it should be.....and compared to very similar vehicles it is way out of whack, and not what we should be paying.
Why are moto manufacturers getting heavy into ebikes....I believe they see the margins and want a piece....they see ebikes as an easy way to make money for the development costs.......(that AND the fact that moto riding areas are disappearing they need a back up market it motorized recreation shrinks)
However from a logical cost standpoint these prices are getting absurd. Compare to a modern 450mx bike that's around $10k. Look at all of the components, testing and development that goes into those, the frequent model refreshes to compete, and the slim margins involved in that market. 13-15k is outrageous for a bicycle even if it does have a motor.
And I know these are "carbon" and come in 6 sizes...BUT research what plastic injection molds cost and count all of the plastic parts on a moto. The tooling and development costs of just the plastic components alone is a lot.....and that's before you even get to high stress motor components that spin at outrageous RPM and produce incredible power.....and are all controlled by EFI with BT mapping (yamaha) or traction control (ktm)
I love ebikes and will pay a good amount to enjoy them and have fun. But the logical side of my brain says we are being duped and trained to think this is what it should be.....and compared to very similar vehicles it is way out of whack, and not what we should be paying.
Why are moto manufacturers getting heavy into ebikes....I believe they see the margins and want a piece....they see ebikes as an easy way to make money for the development costs.......(that AND the fact that moto riding areas are disappearing they need a back up market it motorized recreation shrinks)
HeatproofGenie
Active member
First time I've seen proposed Expert pricing, that accurate?
Anyway, the pricing is not all that bad when one remembers what SWorks pricing was, it's not much more than the '20.
Add me to another camp. Can afford it but is above a threshold and triggers my value sensibilities. Also I want to get my wife an emtb. She doesn't need or want an SWorks or Pro but let's considering if I bought two Pro's, here in the US that would be 26k. Quite a substantial amount no matter how it's rationalized.
Zim is a (not so) secret Spesh shill. He'll be keeping a database of everyone who's bitched about the price but bought one anyway and claiming commission.Hmm... ZF is using reverse psychology on us. Next week we will all be convinced to buy one... watch this space
- Thread starter
- #37
Hey, I'm a big Thok & Rail Fan ! I've never really been a Levo fan until now though.
Dod Colony
Member
Only just got my expert so reading that other thread's made me feel bad enough - but this is really putting the boot in Rob!
TBF the 2021 kicked off at £7750 before they sneaked in a shady £750 mid season price hike so, assuming they stick with that tactic, the 22 will probably be nearer £9500 by the time we can actually buy one?
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Doom’s spent almost as much time in the new Levo forum as you have Zim. He may have the same disease.
- Thread starter
- #40
He'll goto any dark place if it means he doesn't have to goto the garage gym
?You've leaving out the part where they raised prices 20% just before the launch. Stop cheating!
they may well release ally framed comp's in the future... hold tight!!!
as for me, I have been wondering what was coming and what to do with my existing levo comp.. im not getting a gen 3 so ill either upgrade the comp's suspension and ride it into the ground or the scott ransom 920 is calling to me..
as for me, I have been wondering what was coming and what to do with my existing levo comp.. im not getting a gen 3 so ill either upgrade the comp's suspension and ride it into the ground or the scott ransom 920 is calling to me..
Too right, Doom has DOMS today and is currently walking like he's shit hisself...He'll goto any dark place if it means he doesn't have to goto the garage gym
I like watching all the dentists justify spending the cost of a good motorbike on a bicycle.
My particular favourite right now is the "it's only 500 quid more than last year's S-Works" which implies that last year's bike wasn't massively overpriced at £12.5K...
Funny thing is, if you can afford this bike I don’t think money is really an issue let alone justifying it. Good for them.I like watching all the dentists justify spending the cost of a good motorbike on a bicycle.
My particular favourite right now is the "it's only 500 quid more than last year's S-Works" which implies that last year's bike wasn't massively overpriced at £12.5K...
I think it’s too much money but hey they see an opportunity to make money, so why not.
Wouldn’t you?
nasamorpheus
Member
I wanted to buy turbo levo but then I went for Dacia Sandero stepway
Beekeeper
🍯Honey Monster🍯
The Emperors New Clothes comes to mind.
“Why has that man paid £9000 to travel at 15mph?”
“Why has that man paid £9000 to travel at 15mph?”
Rosemount
E*POWAH Elite
So ,,, after 12 months when a new model is released the previous year model is worthless ?
I would start to think that after reading these threads . The thing is if that`s retail price the 2nd hand price is a percentage of that . Buy high , sell high . By low , sell low .
Or lease ?
I would start to think that after reading these threads . The thing is if that`s retail price the 2nd hand price is a percentage of that . Buy high , sell high . By low , sell low .
Or lease ?
MrSimmo
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Sarcasm has a limit I think. We get it you love that gen3. It is OKPersonally, I don't like the adjustable suspension, it makes it too hard to setup the bike. Why can't they just make it right in the first place ?
And I don't like that it looks completely different to the last one but not different enough but at the same time too different.
I don't like the new TCU either. It's erm ... Too small, but also gets in your face too much. I don't like that you can configure it how ever you like it either - why would they do that. It'll be duct tape over the screen for me, I wonder If you can put the old one on.
I don't like the colours either, even though I'm colour blind ..
I really really don't like that they've paid so much attention to waterproofing things either. All these plugs and door things, why can't it just have a couple of nice sticky out nipples on the top tube you attach jump leads too ?
SwissChess
Member
Personally, I don't like the adjustable suspension, it makes it too hard to setup the bike. Why can't they just make it right in the first place ?
And I don't like that it looks completely different to the last one but not different enough but at the same time too different.
I don't like the new TCU either. It's erm ... Too small, but also gets in your face too much. I don't like that you can configure it how ever you like it either - why would they do that. It'll be duct tape over the screen for me, I wonder If you can put the old one on.
I don't like the colours either, even though I'm colour blind ..
I really really don't like that they've paid so much attention to waterproofing things either. All these plugs and door things, why can't it just have a couple of nice sticky out nipples on the top tube you attach jump leads too ?
So you don't think it's okay to pay $ 11,000 for waterproofed
motor.
- Thread starter
- #53
It's too cheap. I think on rainy days I could spend hours just playing with the door catch and door and the lever and plug assembly - no one else builds that much rainy day fun into their bikes ?
Well, I can afford the SWorks Levo, so I'm staying the feck away from any bike shop with maybe a 5km safety radius...... I may email them all and tell them to ban me from shopping with them. It does help that the e160 Merida I just bought is bike of the year according to zee Germans.....
Gordon
Gordon
MrSimmo
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Well, I can afford the SWorks Levo, so I'm staying the fuck away from any bike shop with maybe a 5km safety radius...... I may email them all and tell them to ban me from shopping with them. It does help that the e160 Merida I just bought is bike of the year according to zee Germans.....
Gordon
I've got a safety mechanism in place to prevent me at any cost buying a second ebike, it far outweighs shop bans, cash flow, anything. It's a good one - its called THE WIFE! ?
- Thread starter
- #56
I'll put this in here rather than clutter the official thread ...
I know price keeps jumping around. Yes, It's expensive .... But if you compare, it's not like they're just being suddenly crazy. The prices are inline with other s-works bikes - which have always been expensive. A guy I ride with has an "old" S-Works enduro, must be at least 6 years old but is still the fastest bike around here. I think that was about £8000 new.
Lets take the 22 Frameset, data stolen from a Rob post :
£6500
The frame comes with:
No cranks,motor,battery and I can't help but think theres massively more development goes into the "E" versions.
Or some other none EMTB S-Works bikes .
I think they make the new Gen3 S-Works look like a comparative bargain !
Still keep finding some really expensive ones out there though ...
I know price keeps jumping around. Yes, It's expensive .... But if you compare, it's not like they're just being suddenly crazy. The prices are inline with other s-works bikes - which have always been expensive. A guy I ride with has an "old" S-Works enduro, must be at least 6 years old but is still the fastest bike around here. I think that was about £8000 new.
Lets take the 22 Frameset, data stolen from a Rob post :
£6500
The frame comes with:
- Float X2 shock and
- CRANK SET, PRAXIX,
- 160MM CARBON ARMS ,
- BCD 104MM SPIDER,
- AND A SRAM CR EAGLE 34T CHAINRING
No cranks,motor,battery and I can't help but think theres massively more development goes into the "E" versions.
Or some other none EMTB S-Works bikes .
I think they make the new Gen3 S-Works look like a comparative bargain !
Still keep finding some really expensive ones out there though ...
MrSimmo
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
- Thread starter
- #58
Good point on the frameset ...."But honey, it's just half a bike" ....
I understand why bikes cost more than say motorcycles. But I'd have a hard time struggling to justify to myself dropping that kind of money on something which intended use is off road with associated risks, theft and current quick product life cycle. The premium doesn't seem to equal performance gains or any game changing innovation (most of it looks like trinkets/software/marketing). Seems they are slightly behind Santa Cruz warranty, the top of the line bike doesn't seem to get any special after-care provision so no hidden value there.
To part with premium money I'd be looking for innovation (e-suspension/rapid charging/big motor updates) or peace of mind ie bullet proof hassle free ownership with something like a 90% service guarantee (Bike breaks no problem they'll give/24hr ship you a loaner while they fix yours). That sounds silly but for that price they are competing with owning a good emtb plus a back up emtb which on a week long mtb holiday gives peace of mind.
I think their strategy is to charge premium prices to add a halo effect to their brand. It offers car park bragging rights to their customers and free publicity through pricing controversy. They make nice bikes (personally not a fan of the carp motor bulge) they have many branded stores in their favour. But I think they are over reaching on pricing considering santa cruz looks good value in comparison (which is where my money would go). They risk making themselves look like poor value for money if they can't demonstrate to customers any clear advantages. As the case with mobile phone plateauing more an more people are skipping a generation or two.
Final thoughts if they can get away with charging what they do then good for them, but it'll problably have knock on price creep in the rest of the market boo for us.
To part with premium money I'd be looking for innovation (e-suspension/rapid charging/big motor updates) or peace of mind ie bullet proof hassle free ownership with something like a 90% service guarantee (Bike breaks no problem they'll give/24hr ship you a loaner while they fix yours). That sounds silly but for that price they are competing with owning a good emtb plus a back up emtb which on a week long mtb holiday gives peace of mind.
I think their strategy is to charge premium prices to add a halo effect to their brand. It offers car park bragging rights to their customers and free publicity through pricing controversy. They make nice bikes (personally not a fan of the carp motor bulge) they have many branded stores in their favour. But I think they are over reaching on pricing considering santa cruz looks good value in comparison (which is where my money would go). They risk making themselves look like poor value for money if they can't demonstrate to customers any clear advantages. As the case with mobile phone plateauing more an more people are skipping a generation or two.
Final thoughts if they can get away with charging what they do then good for them, but it'll problably have knock on price creep in the rest of the market boo for us.
The 9.9 rail isn’t cheap either is it....
But people compare different spec / models etc.
Flagship for flagship isn’t miles more when you look at the £11k Santa Cruz etc etc
yes the s works is that but more. Not double the price like everyone making it out to be.
But people compare different spec / models etc.
Flagship for flagship isn’t miles more when you look at the £11k Santa Cruz etc etc
yes the s works is that but more. Not double the price like everyone making it out to be.
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