How long will your EMTB last you?

[Old Mike]

Re:The problem is most companies are not building 2 wheels toys with a +, the motor.
They are building cellphones that have 2 wheels.

Totally true.

For instance I have two Bosch performance CX bikes, both with a motor that is obsolete as of last month.

The new one is a different size shape, so won't fit.

You don't seem to be able to buy the old motor.

So the longevity of the whole bike is basically "how long can I keep the motor and battery going for?".

My next ride to work bike won't be a Cube or any other proprietary ebike for this reason. Once the ride to work cube dies (7,000 miles so far, sounds as good as new) I'm going to fit an old cheapy standard MTB with a Bafang BBS01 or BBS02 conversion kit. But that wont be for a long time as I also managed to get a cheapy Bosch Active line motor that will fit the Cube. I reckon I've got 2-3 years minimum with that bike, at 4,000 miles a year.

My offroad one has just had a new motor fitted in May under Warranty, so I'm okay for 21 months. That one doesn't do the miles, but it gets hammered on roots, rocks and drop-offs. After that warranty period, who knows? - I'm fairly certain the motors will be like rocking horse s**t to get hold of by then.

This will always be a problem with ebikes - the motors will never be interchangeable, and there will be more and more manufacturers. I honestly can't see any way around it.

 

[Fivetones]

Can’t you just get the motor serviced?

 

[Old Mike]

Can’t you just get the motor serviced?

Define "serviced"...

There is no real servicing required on these motors, they're sealed units.

What will really be required is the equivalent of engine rebuilds - taking the motor apart and replacing worn gears etc. But that relies on the availability of the parts. Bosch currently have a service kit for the Performance CX motors that replaces a big chunk of the gears and the main bearing, and all for £100 which is a bargain. But how long will that be available.

I have no idea of how easy it is to get other makes of motor rebuilt, but there is a guy who does work on most of the main motors (I have no link with this chap - he just seems to provide a good service by all accounts):

The home of e-bike motor parts -

(Mods please remove this link if it breaks forum rules - I'm a newbie so I don't know what is allowed)

Its people like him who will make it possible to extend the lives of these bikes, as most owners wont have the knowledge, tools or practicle skills to do it themselves. Most bike shops wont be able to do it either - they'll be able to swap units but not rebuild them - its quite a specialized job.

 

[Fivetones]

I have faith that, for the big motor manufacturers at least, the service kits will be available a long time.

There’s a fair few companies springing up now that can keep the motors going.

I completely disagree emtb are like phones. Far from it.

 

[Pukmeister]

If the bearings fail they can be sourced and replaced. If the motor windings burn out, somebody somewhere can probably rewind them. If the motor gears fail, somebody somewhere will be able to CNC new ones. This assumes it is all cost effective.

If the circuit board fries or the software/firmware corrupts, that could be a problem.

 

[Beekeeper]

I have faith that, for the big motor manufacturers at least, the service kits will be available a long time.

There’s a fair few companies springing up now that can keep the motors going.

I completely disagree emtb are like phones. Far from it.

The Bosch service kit doesn’t look too difficult to do. I’d certainly be prepared to give it a go. If the problem is noise from long term wear and tear then it would probably make a big difference.

However, if noise is caused by the dreaded enemy water then both the drive side and non drive side mechanics will be all rusted up and I’m not sure how effective the service pack would be in that case.

To gain access to all the bearings etc does require a bench press thingy and various other high tech devices which is beyond the scope of most I would imagine.

I certainly won’t be smashing through ponds / streams or jumping into mud baths with my Cube hardtail just yet ?. I haven’t even taken off the cellophane protective stickers yet.

 

[Greny]

Define "serviced"...

There is no real servicing required on these motors, they're sealed units.

What will really be required is the equivalent of engine rebuilds - taking the motor apart and replacing worn gears etc. But that relies on the availability of the parts. Bosch currently have a service kit for the Performance CX motors that replaces a big chunk of the gears and the main bearing, and all for £100 which is a bargain. But how long will that be available.

I have no idea of how easy it is to get other makes of motor rebuilt, but there is a guy who does work on most of the main motors (I have no link with this chap - he just seems to provide a good service by all accounts):

The home of e-bike motor parts -

(Mods please remove this link if it breaks forum rules - I'm a newbie so I don't know what is allowed)

Its people like him who will make it possible to extend the lives of these bikes, as most owners wont have the knowledge, tools or practicle skills to do it themselves. Most bike shops wont be able to do it either - they'll be able to swap units but not rebuild them - its quite a specialized job.

That’s a lot of doom thinking..... the kit @ 100 is cost price to Bosch, they’re make no money on that.
For your bike , first 15 days of December search Ebay etc... for a bike with low mileage. Swap the engine, sell the rest of the parts in spring and you have engine for free. Willpower

 

[Old Mike]

That’s a lot of doom thinking..... the kit @ 100 is cost price to Bosch, they’re make no money on that.
For your bike , first 15 days of December search Ebay etc... for a bike with low mileage. Swap the engine, sell the rest of the parts in spring and you have engine for free. Willpower

Re: That’s a lot of doom thinking

I actually thought I'd been quite positive whilst highlighting the dangers!!

And I did actually state that the £100 kit was a bargain.

Its why I'm not a comedian, I can't gauge audiences

But I do stand by that the lifespan of these bikes will be dictated by the motor, and I don't believe you'll be able to get them fixed easily a few years after the motor is discontinued. For this reason Emtbs won't last as long as ordinary mtbs, all in my opinion of course.

I have 2 cube ebikes, I'm doing 5,000 miles a year, i absolutely love ebiking. So I'm not anti-ebike, I just think they're going to be inherently troublesome to get fixed until everything settles down and the market shakes out. You can love something whist still seeing the problems.

They're certainly sometimes unreliable - me and my mate have had two Bosch motors replaced out of the 3 cube bikes we've had. (All under warranty so no cost). Both of them failed at low mileage. My other motor has 7,000 miles on it, sounds as good as new. They seem to fail either straight away or last forever - which suggests manufacturing problems rather than an inherently bad design. My replacement motor sounds superb - I think it may last a while.

 

[Old Mike]

I have faith that, for the big motor manufacturers at least, the service kits will be available a long time.

There’s a fair few companies springing up now that can keep the motors going.

I completely disagree emtb are like phones. Far from it.

We'll agree to disagree then.

The cubes from 4 years ago already look like ancient history, clumsy and amateurish compared to todays bikes.

Once development has slowed, just like phones, bikes will have sellable longevity.

I actually think we may be approaching that point now, bikes are getting so good.

 

[Pdoz]

We'll agree to disagree then.

The cubes from 4 years ago already look like ancient history, clumsy and amateurish compared to todays bikes.

Once development has slowed, just like phones, bikes will have sellable longevity.

I actually think we may be approaching that point now, bikes are getting so good.

And how much is an iphone 4 with a cracked screen worth?

Personally, I'm more comfortable using a couple of $k per year on a bike than a fancy phone, so the whole mobile phone thing- pft. Perhaps it's time to upgrade my clunky old beast?

 

[Old Mike]

And how much is an iphone 4 with a cracked screen worth?

Personally, I'm more comfortable using a couple of $k per year on a bike than a fancy phone, so the whole mobile phone thing- pft. Perhaps it's time to upgrade my clunky old beast?

Nothing. That's the point.

But at least with the iPhone you can spend £80 at 1,000's of places and get a new screen.

Re: Perhaps it's time to upgrade my clunky old beast?

I often think that. But nobody else would have me so I'm stuck with her really.

Re: Personally, I'm more comfortable using a couple of $k per year

If you're prepared to blow a couple of K a year - and that's nothing if you can afford it - then none of this is a problem. You won't care about how long a bike lasts.

PS. As an old man - what does ptf mean?

 

[Fivetones]

We’re definitely not at opposite poles in how we’re thinking about this. No sense in rolling over what I’ve already said in this thread though, I’m fairly sure most are bored of my angle now ?

 

[Pdoz]

PS. As an old man - what does ptf mean?

It's pft written by someone not wearing his old man glasses - aka the noise we make when we really couldn't care about these frustrating electrical devices with screens we can't read

Sorry for the confusion

 

[Old Mike]

It's pft written by someone not wearing his old man glasses - aka the noise we make when we really couldn't care about these frustrating electrical devices with screens we can't read

Sorry for the confusion

?

 

[Old Mike]

It's pft written by someone not wearing his old man glasses - aka the noise we make when we really couldn't care about these frustrating electrical devices with screens we can't read

Sorry for the confusion

I personally have a £100 phone but have spent many thousands on ebikes, so i join you in a hearty pft...

 

[Pukmeister]

I'm also a luddite and proud of it in my old age, which is why I use an old iPhone and my ebike doesnt have a screen, just a small switchpad with a few buttons and some simple power level/setting led's. Same with my motorcycles, everyone is getting all jizzed up about newer bikes with TFT display screens whilst I just ride my old bikes with analog dials.

 

[RodC]

My next ebike can easily be just a frame and motor. I’ve been updating my bike with good components.

 

[Mike D.]

In my other enthusiasm, I'm happy to own gear from a hifi manufacturer who can still service discontinued items decades after they became so...

Perhaps this has biased my expectations, but I would have thought hi-end companies like Fox, Sram and especially Shimano would be able to keep my machine going for a lot more than a measly 5 years?

 

[gtaadicto]

My 2019 Vitus E-Sommet VR is still going strong. I can't find anything in the market that makes me want to change the bike.