(HELP) Newbie just made a Custom Chinese Full Carbon EMTB Beast for $3000. What do you guys think?

[xtraman122]

I’d be weary of their carbon components for that cheap, specifically the handlebars and seat post. Even the frame is probably not the strongest quality at that price point to be able to handle all that weight of the motor/battery. If it were me I’d rather have quality alloy stuff over crappy carbon, handlebars aren’t something you want failing.

 

[Abizzle55]

Or this one? Which one is better?

I'm looking for an all rounder, Trail/XC with some DH. Not specifically DH only.

 

[Abizzle55]

I’d be weary of their carbon components for that cheap, specifically the handlebars and seat post. Even the frame is probably not the strongest quality at that price point to be able to handle all that weight of the motor/battery. If it were me I’d rather have quality alloy stuff over crappy carbon, handlebars aren’t something you want failing.

The more I think about it the more I realise I have to be careful about the carbon components and frame.

I've been to China and met various suppliers and factory owners and had an English guy I know very well who has a business there for last 20 years.

What I learnt is everything is available but in three qualities. Low, medium, high. The high quality products are what they make for the western companies and those are the type of products I'm trying to source but at significantly reduced pricing compared to rip off UK.

The two latest geometry examples I have posted above are both from well reputable company Dengfu direct. So I think their carbon stuff should hold up well.

Anyone got experience with them?

 

[xtraman122]

The more I think about it the more I realise I have to be careful about the carbon components and frame.

I've been to China and met various suppliers and factory owners and had an English guy I know very well who has a business there for last 20 years.

What I learnt is everything is available but in three qualities. Low, medium, high. The high quality products are what they make for the western companies and those are the type of products I'm trying to source but at significantly reduced pricing compared to rip off UK.

The two latest geometry examples I have posted above are both from well reputable company Dengfu direct. So I think their carbon stuff should hold up well.

Anyone got experience with them?

Dengfu is definitely one of the more reputable companies for frames, it seems to be them and LightCarbon (I have a frame on the way from LightCarbon right now, and it probably would have been Dengfu if they actually had a size L available for the E82) you see the most custom builds with. Although I expect each of them still has their own low/med/high build capabilities depending who they’re supplying and what the customer is willing to pay.

 

[Astro66]

The Dengfu bike would be a great allrounder. Though quite a slack geometry. So more targeted for downhill. But being an E-bike, will XC just fine.

This is a good starting point. You would have very quickly out-grown the other bike.

 

[xtraman122]

I’m really starting to question the ability for them to offer a whole bike at the price you mention of $3k. Dengfu themselves sells the combo of the frame/motor/battery, here is their listing for the E55 which is one of the ones you showed above. E55 FRAME+ MOTOR + BATTERY KIT

That alone is $2400. How in the world are they going to get you (carbon) bars, a dropper, wheels, brakes, a fork, a shock, stem, rotors, tires, derailleur, cassette, seat, grips, etc for only $600 more? The fork alone would cost that. Just doesn’t seem possible that you’re getting a full bike for anywhere near $3k when the frame/motor/battery should be at minimum $2k no matter how you slice it. I suspect that frame is likely on the “low” end of the low/med/high scale because there’s no hiding what it should cost unless the frame is really cheap compared to most quality carbon emtb frames which all seems to come in around $800-1000 from the Chinese suppliers.

 

[Pickle1970]

The green one in the first pictures looks awful, looks like someone has rammed it into a wall at high speed

 

[Sayonara]

I strongly advice against m620. Not the best motor for mtb stuff and it's so freaking heavy.

I would recommend LightCarbon LCE971 but they are currently updating the frame so it can fit dhx2 and other big shocks so I don't know what kind of changes they are making yet.

If you message them and ask for the older version if they happen to still have that I would suggest that.

If you are interested in this frame I strongly suggest check out Sandnap's LCE930 build post in the dyi section(m820 motor frame from LightCarbon) or Denver's build post for the LCE971 frame. He went with m510 motor.

Frame was about 900€ with shipping and tax to EU
I bought m560 750w motor kit from Greenbikekit about 900€ with shipping and tax to EU.
Battery + battery support system was 350€ from aliexpress. Reliable seller.
Rockshox super deluxe ultimate rct2 was 500€.
Used fox 36 performance elite 160mm travel for 400€.
I bought same brakes as Sandnap and I love them. So seems others that have tested them. Link to them in Sandnap's build thread. I think front+rear 4 piston brakes were 120€ only.
I also bought the same wheels as he did and those were 250€ both wheels.
Same with dropper seatpost. That was 80€.

Total cost about 3,5k.

I will make my own build thread once I'm done with the build. Still need to tweak shifting, suspension settings and brakes. But so far everything seems to work great! Was able to do a short ride already.

 

[xtraman122]

I would recommend LightCarbon LCE971 but they are currently updating the frame so it can fit dhx2 and other big shocks so I don't know what kind of changes they are making yet.

If you message them and ask for the older version if they happen to still have that I would suggest that.

I don’t think it’ll be possible to get any old stock, they seem to make them as they’re ordered. My order from all the way back on May 30th is just now finishing being built and has to go through the wait for paint now. They made some small update for a stiffer rear triangle and new cable routing since ordering and just that already got put into place for my order, so I don’t get the impression they ever just sit on stock that’s not sold already.

 

[Sayonara]

I don’t think it’ll be possible to get any old stock, they seem to make them as they’re ordered. My order from all the way back on May 30th is just now finishing being built and has to go through the wait for paint now. They made some small update for a stiffer rear triangle and new cable routing since ordering and just that already got put into place for my order, so I don’t get the impression they ever just sit on stock that’s not sold already.

They did have stock. I know because I bought one from the old stock instead of ordering one of the new ones

 

[Bontee]

Sorry,doom and gloom merchant here.
You have just built yourself an illegal electric motorcycle,illegal on the road unless you “choose” the 250w option which being a law abiding citizen you will always do,no doubt.
On private land go knock yourself out,good luck to you.
But if you are on man made trails you are going to get a lot of stick from legal emtb users and the guys who build the trails.
I recently had a chat with a mate who knows one of his local trail builders and put in months of work to get it right ,only to have it torn to pieces by some idiots on over powered e bikes.
He knew this because he challenged them and they got pissed off at him when he threatened to call the police .
In fact a couple of normal mountain bikers gathered round to back him up
but I doubt you would do anything as silly as ride on public rights of way in anything but 250w mode.
After all you wouldn’t want to jeopardise everyone elses chances of getting banned eventually would you.
Heard this from from a good mate who lives in scotland.

 

[Mr_Price]

Whoever said XT brakes weren’t good enough but then recommended Codes is a bit confused.

My only comment is that a motor with that much power will eat XT rear mechs on the regular. My Rail bends the cage on the XT at roughly one a year, I can de-tune the hanger a few times to keep shifting acceptable but eventually needs replacing.

T-Type will be much better suited to that level of power.

 

[Sayonara]

Sorry,doom and gloom merchant here.
You have just built yourself an illegal electric motorcycle,illegal on the road unless you “choose” the 250w option which being a law abiding citizen you will always do,no doubt.
On private land go knock yourself out,good luck to you.
But if you are on man made trails you are going to get a lot of stick from legal emtb users and the guys who build the trails.
I recently had a chat with a mate who knows one of his local trail builders and put in months of work to get it right ,only to have it torn to pieces by some idiots on over powered e bikes.
He knew this because he challenged them and they got pissed off at him when he threatened to call the police .
In fact a couple of normal mountain bikers gathered round to back him up
but I doubt you would do anything as silly as ride on public rights of way in anything but 250w mode.
After all you wouldn’t want to jeopardise everyone elses chances of getting banned eventually would you.
Heard this from from a good mate who lives in scotland.

They are legal in EU if you set speed limit to 25 km/h (which is the ebike speed limit anyway). Just have to insure it If you have 251-1000w motor or thumb throttle. Which is about 10€/month.

But yes you are right about being considerate if you ride public trails etc. Totally agree with you. That's why the motor has different modes

Forest is one of the best places to ride imo. Especially here in my location since my area is full of hills.

 

[Bontee]

They are legal in EU if you set speed limit to 25 km/h (which is the ebike speed limit anyway). Just have to insure it If you have 251-1000w motor or thumb throttle. Which is about 10€/month.

But yes you are right about being considerate if you ride public trails etc. Totally agree with you. That's why the motor has different modes

Forest is one of the best places to ride imo. Especially here in my location since my area is full of hills.

Thats fine Sayonara,I am well aware of the rules and yes in finland no problem ,masses of space huge forests excellent ,but this is the UK and the instance I gave happened.
My question is “where is the OP going to use his 1000w” I suppose he will say “on private land”

 

[xtraman122]

They did have stock. I know because I bought one from the old stock instead of ordering one of the new ones

Wow you’re lucky, I’m getting pretty tired of waiting, it’s been 5 weeks now and it hasn’t even gone to paint yet. I’m unfortunately going to lose most of the summer to waiting on this frame.

 

[Sayonara]

Wow you’re lucky, I’m getting pretty tired of waiting, it’s been 5 weeks now and it hasn’t even gone to paint yet. I’m unfortunately going to lose most of the summer to waiting on this frame.

Yeah. That's exactly why I went with the "older" frame.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Funny that so many people insist that no bike could possibly be safe without Saint brakes. Clearly not aware that Saints are just regular old Shimano brakes with the word "Saint" written on them. There's no other difference. All Shimanos use the same ceramic pistons and most can accept any pads you like (finned, metallic, whatever).

Anyway, my 2 cents is that 12-speed geartrains kinda suck and are way too many gears for an e-bike anyway. I ride the M8100 and find use the double-shift option much of the time but it's still too many gears to cycle thru and too sensitive to misalignment, dirt, grass, etc. I often can't even tell if it shifted because a 13% or 14% increment is so subtle. Also Shimano's Microspline hub isn't exactly the smartest design. I don't know the current state of 10-11 speed options, but you may want to consider something like Shimano's newer "Linkglide" line which is intended to be more robust for e-bikes and uses a regular freehub.

Today's popular 12-speed geartrains use a 34T ring with a 10-51T cassette and people find 1st gear to be almost useless on a full power eMTB while 12th gear tops out around 35 km/h. An 11-speed setup with 38T and 11-50T gives you exactly the same gearing range, minus 1st gear.

 

[Sayonara]

Funny that so many people insist that no bike could possibly be safe without Saint brakes. Clearly not aware that Saints are just regular old Shimano brakes with the word "Saint" written on them. There's no other difference. All Shimanos use the same ceramic pistons and most can accept any pads you like (finned, metallic, whatever).

Anyway, my 2 cents is that 12-speed geartrains kinda suck and are way too many gears for an e-bike anyway. I ride the M8100 and find use the double-shift option much of the time but it's still too many gears to cycle thru and too sensitive to misalignment, dirt, grass, etc. I often can't even tell if it shifted because a 13% or 14% increment is so subtle. Also Shimano's Microspline hub isn't exactly the smartest design. I don't know the current state of 10-11 speed options, but you may want to consider something like Shimano's newer "Linkglide" line which is intended to be more robust for e-bikes and uses a regular freehub.

Today's popular 12-speed geartrains use a 34T ring with a 10-51T cassette and people find 1st gear to be almost useless on a full power eMTB while 12th gear tops out around 35 km/h. An 11-speed setup with 38T and 11-50T gives you exactly the same gearing range, minus 1st gear.

Basically the reason why I went with Microshift Advent 9-speed.

 

[juggernaut]

Funny that so many people insist that no bike could possibly be safe without Saint brakes. Clearly not aware that Saints are just regular old Shimano brakes with the word "Saint" written on them. There's no other difference. All Shimanos use the same ceramic pistons and most can accept any pads you like (finned, metallic, whatever).

Anyway, my 2 cents is that 12-speed geartrains kinda suck and are way too many gears for an e-bike anyway. I ride the M8100 and find use the double-shift option much of the time but it's still too many gears to cycle thru and too sensitive to misalignment, dirt, grass, etc. I often can't even tell if it shifted because a 13% or 14% increment is so subtle. Also Shimano's Microspline hub isn't exactly the smartest design. I don't know the current state of 10-11 speed options, but you may want to consider something like Shimano's newer "Linkglide" line which is intended to be more robust for e-bikes and uses a regular freehub.

Today's popular 12-speed geartrains use a 34T ring with a 10-51T cassette and people find 1st gear to be almost useless on a full power eMTB while 12th gear tops out around 35 km/h. An 11-speed setup with 38T and 11-50T gives you exactly the same gearing range, minus 1st gear.

Agreed, which is why I suggested fitting the biggest chainring you can physically fit. Spreads the gearing between shifts and keeps you in the bigger cogs giving you better life from the cassette. With a 50, 51 or 52 tooth granny gear you’ll still have all the climbing power you’ll need.

From memory the XT linkglide 11 speed cassette runs thicker cogs than the SRAM NX 11-51 cassette (with GX everything else) I’m running. So could be an option.

 

[YZDude]

Steel 11spd cassette with Shimano XT here. No need for 12 speed on any Bafang 6XX series 100+ NM motor. I’m thinking about swapping my M600 down to a 510.

 

[Abizzle55]

I strongly advice against m620. Not the best motor for mtb stuff and it's so freaking heavy.

I would recommend LightCarbon LCE971 but they are currently updating the frame so it can fit dhx2 and other big shocks so I don't know what kind of changes they are making yet.

If you message them and ask for the older version if they happen to still have that I would suggest that.

If you are interested in this frame I strongly suggest check out Sandnap's LCE930 build post in the dyi section(m820 motor frame from LightCarbon) or Denver's build post for the LCE971 frame. He went with m510 motor.

Frame was about 900€ with shipping and tax to EU
I bought m560 750w motor kit from Greenbikekit about 900€ with shipping and tax to EU.
Battery + battery support system was 350€ from aliexpress. Reliable seller.
Rockshox super deluxe ultimate rct2 was 500€.
Used fox 36 performance elite 160mm travel for 400€.
I bought same brakes as Sandnap and I love them. So seems others that have tested them. Link to them in Sandnap's build thread. I think front+rear 4 piston brakes were 120€ only.
I also bought the same wheels as he did and those were 250€ both wheels.
Same with dropper seatpost. That was 80€.

Total cost about 3,5k.

I will make my own build thread once I'm done with the build. Still need to tweak shifting, suspension settings and brakes. But so far everything seems to work great! Was able to do a short ride already.

Oh wow, that's really helpful. I can see what success others have had with the various combination of motors and frames.

Thanks bud.

 

[Abizzle55]

Steel 11spd cassette with Shimano XT here. No need for 12 speed on any Bafang 6XX series 100+ NM motor. I’m thinking about swapping my M600 down to a 510.

Hi, can I ask the reasoning around the downgrade? Too much power?

 

[xtraman122]

Hi, can I ask the reasoning around the downgrade? Too much power?

You just don’t need as many gears when you have the power of 3+ more people pedaling with you. You generally have a lot of speeds so you can always be in exactly the right gear to maintain your cadence and be in a gear that feels right at all different speeds and inclines, but with a huge motor you’ll find yourself just skipping right through a bunch of them because you’re accelerating so quickly with such little effort.

 

[YZDude]

Hi, can I ask the reasoning around the downgrade? Too much power?

To the 510? Yes, don’t really need the 120nm and my particular 43V M600 lacks any decent FW options. It’s ultra aggressive, and somewhat crude in power delivery.
From what I know, the 510 has a more ‘natural’ feel, still more power than most Bosch/Shimano motors and weighs quite a bit less than the 600.

 

[YZDude]

You just don’t need as many gears when you have the power of 3+ more people pedaling with you. You generally have a lot of speeds so you can always be in exactly the right gear to maintain your cadence and be in a gear that feels right at all different speeds and inclines, but with a huge motor you’ll find yourself just skipping right through a bunch of them because you’re accelerating so quickly with such little effort.

Exactly! I think an E-optimized 10spd built for durability would be a great thing.

 

[Zagora]

(HELP) Newbie just made a Custom Chinese Full Carbon EMTB Beast for $3000. What do you guys think?​

I'd stay well clear of this, sounds like you'll have so many issues plus I wouldn't trust the build quality of some of the components.

 

[Pickle1970]

As above, lots of deals around.

Seen a Cube for just under 3k, 140mm of travel, Bosch CX and 750kw battery.

 

[Abizzle55]

Thanks guys I have begun looking at alternatives.

I've seen these two. Which one to go for?

2023 Norco Range VLT C-Team - 29 inch wheels - 180mm travel front and back.
900Wh battery!! 150+ miles of range in eco and 50+ in boost.

This is a race team spec bike:

SRAM XO T-Type 12 speed drivetrain - only been used 150 miles.

EX511 rims with industry nine hydra hubs and cush core - sound the nuts!

Full RideWrap bike protection film in gloss.

Maxxis Assegai DH Casing MaxxGrip front and rear.

Carbon front end and alloy rear triangle.

Shimano EP8 motor ----- 900Wh battery.

DVO ONYX D1 front fork 180mm travel ----- DVO Jade Coil rear suspension 180mm travel.

Formula cura 4 brake in polished silver - the most powerful brakes out there.

PNW Components dropper post and lever.

WTB Volt Titanium saddle.

ENVE Carbon stem spacers.

PNW Components stem and handlebars.

E-Thirteen Chain guide

RRP Extra-Large front mudguard.

220mm front and 200mm rear rotors

Custom Cable wrap to make the cockpit clean and tidy.

The craziest paint you have ever seen from a factory painted bike 1 of 5 in the world.

One of one bike, you will not find another one of these on the trails. A true talking point between any knowledgeable riders.


As usual it is a used bike and has some marks.

1274 miles done.

Asking £3750. Will offer £3000.

----------------------------------

The there's this:

YT Decoy Uncaged 9 (2022)

Asking £3500. Will offer £2750.

 

[technotony007]

I had one of these Bafang M620's motors in a vapour frame. Theey are a great motor in its standrad form. really good going up steep hills. I fitted an eggrider to it for the main reason in case the the local Plod stopped me , so i could prove it was in "road" which limits it to 250w & 15.5mph. Its a simple flick of the a switch to set it to "offroad" which is full power . I then got the innotrace upgrade to 3Kw , the eggrider didnt work it upgraded motor, which was a pain. The max speed i recorded on a flat path was 58mph , which was scary on bike which only weighted at 23kg. . The battery then only lasted 12 miles after this , so to me It rendered the bike not of much use, as most of my journeys are around 40 to 60 km.

hope that helps for info for my experience.

tony

 

[YZDude]

Thanks guys I have begun looking at alternatives.

I've seen these two. Which one to go for?

2023 Norco Range VLT C-Team - 29 inch wheels - 180mm travel front and back.
900Wh battery!! 150+ miles of range in eco and 50+ in boost.

This is a race team spec bike:

SRAM XO T-Type 12 speed drivetrain - only been used 150 miles.

EX511 rims with industry nine hydra hubs and cush core - sound the nuts!

Full RideWrap bike protection film in gloss.

Maxxis Assegai DH Casing MaxxGrip front and rear.

Carbon front end and alloy rear triangle.

Shimano EP8 motor ----- 900Wh battery.

DVO ONYX D1 front fork 180mm travel ----- DVO Jade Coil rear suspension 180mm travel.

Formula cura 4 brake in polished silver - the most powerful brakes out there.

PNW Components dropper post and lever.

WTB Volt Titanium saddle.

ENVE Carbon stem spacers.

PNW Components stem and handlebars.

E-Thirteen Chain guide

RRP Extra-Large front mudguard.

220mm front and 200mm rear rotors

Custom Cable wrap to make the cockpit clean and tidy.

The craziest paint you have ever seen from a factory painted bike 1 of 5 in the world.

One of one bike, you will not find another one of these on the trails. A true talking point between any knowledgeable riders.


As usual it is a used bike and has some marks.

1274 miles done.

Asking £3750. Will offer £3000.

----------------------------------

The there's this:

YT Decoy Uncaged 9 (2022)

Asking £3500. Will offer £2750.


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So, next thing in deciding on a bike is to figure out what motor/s you want. The E7000 on the YT would take it immediately out of running for me. So Norco and EP8 for the win there. Also wins with EX511 wheels. Frankly it sounds too cheap for the build, possibly a scam or stolen?!? Hurry up and find out!!