Help needed: M510 FC2.0 not switching on

[Karamba!]

Hi,
2 days ago I was leaving for a ride. When I turned on the bike through the remote (DCP245 v2) nothing happened. Tried several times but nothing. Less than a minute or so later I tried again, and it turned on fine. Went on with my ride, everything was working fine. I rode for a couple of hours and took a rest. The motor auto shut-off kicked in and I could not switch it on again. Hours later, I could switch it on again and noticed that I could not switch it off through the remote. Since then I´ve been unable to switch it on again.
I connected it up to the computer through Besst Tool, and the screen turns on normally, but it shows 0% battery, and the controller info could not be read. At a given point, out of the blue, the battery level showed up, and I could read the controller info just fine. . I took the tool off thinking that the motor will turn on but it didn´t. Hooked everything up again and the battery showed at 0% again. PAS changed normally through the remote
I have checked that the battery is delivering power normally and I checked the harness for continuity, and all was fine. I have also triple checked that connectors were fully on on both ends.

This is what the display shows when connected to the PC:

I am ready to open up the motor since it could use a maintenance, but I am not sure what I can do to troubleshoot the controller. I also wonder if the remote could be the issue, but I´m more inclined to think it´s the controller due to the display showing 0% battery in circumstances that it is fully charged and there´s continuity in the harness.
Any advice or tips are welcome.
Thanks

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yes almost the same symptoms as many of the early 510 motors and including mine. Took me a long time to definatively pinpoint my motors problem as it would only not respond approx. 1 in 10 times trying to start.

We need to put this up on a main thread perhaps but having changed the external components such as wiring keypad display etc my motor was on occasion simply not responding to the keypad. In a discussion with Dado he pointed out that the keypad button does not take the startup line from the display fully to ground 0 volts but approx. 1/2 way only. The BESST tool however does take that wire fully to ground and thus the motor is able to differentiate between keypad input and BESST input to control the motor response. The problem in my case was the connector pcb within the motor had a poorly dry soldered connector. This dry soldered joint was thus a high resistance and was altering the keypad voltage level. The higher resistance the higher the voltage level until the motor will no longer respond to the keypad.

Very easy to repair, the connector pcb for the M510 is available from multiple sources on ALiExpress. Mine hasn't missed a beat since replacing that connector PCB.

 

[Karamba!]

Thanks a ton Wayne. Is this what you are referring to?

Is there a disassembly guide that you can recommend? I´ve found the Greenkit video on youtube, but it seems as they were finding their way as they went. Any tip on this matter is also very welcome.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yes thats the circuit board. I will take a photo to pin point what to look for as far as a dry soldered joint looks at some stage.

I think I used the Greenkit video. Do be aware that connector board is almost the last thing to come out of the case, its right at the bottom so as to speak. Don't be put off though as its pretty basic in the way big chunks come out exposing the connector pcb board. Do also be aware the case gasket is not yet available and you may damage it getting it apart. Take care and you will probably save it enough to be able to use a gasket seal glue to fill in the missing parts. I had to use a M600 gasket which fits 75% of the way, chop the old missing bit out of the old gasket and splice the two together using the said gasket maker glue.

Do change the drive side seal and bearing as a matter of maintenance updating, its easy to do whilst the motor is apart and in my view probably the weak point of the motor. If it hasn't already gone then it soon will be. Again both are widely available on Ali Express. I took the bearing seal out and repacked it with grease, they come with not a lot of grease in there and I think thats partially the reason why there is so much water ingress at that point.

 

[Karamba!]

Thanks again Wayne. Yeah, I noticed that the pcb is at the bottom of the motor, I guess it was designed by Murphy.
Some time ago I bought the case gasket from Ali, supposedly is for the M510. Quite cheap. Is it not the right one?

As for the drive side seal, is it this one?

Or this other:

 

[Karamba!]

Answering myself about the gasket:
As you pointed out, what is sold in Ali is not the actual M510 gasket, close but not the same:

Fortunately my original gasket is pristine (so far lol).
I´m relief that after 4k kms the motor looks in pretty good shape and sufficiently lubricated. I have only tested the outer bearing and it's spinning smoothly.

 

[MrFixit]

Also check the two gold pins located inside the bottom of the frame where they connect to the battery, they sometimes stick and loose connection with the battery. I eventually bypassed this by soldering the two red wires inside the battery case together.

 

[Karamba!]

Also check the two gold pins located inside the bottom of the frame where they connect to the battery, they sometimes stick and loose connection with the battery. I eventually bypassed this by soldering the two red wires inside the battery case together.

Thanks MrFixit, I checked them and they both were proning just fine.

 

[MrFixit]

Thanks MrFixit, I checked them and they both were proning just fine.

I thought mine were ok too, but in my case those pins seemed to be the issue.

 

[Karamba!]

I thought mine were ok too, but in my case those pins seemed to be the issue.

In your case, were they stuck inside, not making contact with the battery?

 

[MrFixit]

In your case, were they stuck inside, not making contact with the battery?

Yes, it was intermittent, sometimes the bike was fine but other times it would not work.

 

[Karamba!]

Yes almost the same symptoms as many of the early 510 motors and including mine. Took me a long time to definatively pinpoint my motors problem as it would only not respond approx. 1 in 10 times trying to start.

We need to put this up on a main thread perhaps but having changed the external components such as wiring keypad display etc my motor was on occasion simply not responding to the keypad. In a discussion with Dado he pointed out that the keypad button does not take the startup line from the display fully to ground 0 volts but approx. 1/2 way only. The BESST tool however does take that wire fully to ground and thus the motor is able to differentiate between keypad input and BESST input to control the motor response. The problem in my case was the connector pcb within the motor had a poorly dry soldered connector. This dry soldered joint was thus a high resistance and was altering the keypad voltage level. The higher resistance the higher the voltage level until the motor will no longer respond to the keypad.

Very easy to repair, the connector pcb for the M510 is available from multiple sources on ALiExpress. Mine hasn't missed a beat since replacing that connector PCB.

Unfortunately, my problem persists after replacing the connectors´ PCB, hence that was not the problem. So, I am left with 4 potential suspects: Display/Remote, Battery, Wiring and Controller.

I´ve been troubleshooting the system to the extent of my knowledge. Following are my findings (I´m trying to include as much details as I can, in case they are relevant):

Display/Remote: When connecting the display to my pc through the Besst tool, the display lights up normally, but displaying the battery at 0%. All buttons on the remote work as expected, that is; PAS levels up and down, Walk mode, Light switching, and cycling through ODO, Watts, Cadence, etc. through the power button. So I´m inclined to discard the display/remote as the culprit.

Since there´s no battery detected, the Besst tool cannot talk to the controller.

Battery: The voltmeter is measuring 54v (fully charged), so the battery doesn´t seem to be the problem. As soon as I put the bike together +1 year ago, I bypassed the switch to put it to sleep, by bridging the switch terminals on the battery itself. and worked flawlessly. I checked that to be ok. I also checked the switch terminals at the holder and found continuity between both. They both protrude and retract normally.
Wiring: I verified continuity for the battery holder´s terminals in the frame and its connector at the motor´s end. Each pin on the connector showed continuity with a pair of terminals at the holder, i.e. pin 1 to the left pair of terminals, and pin 2 to the right pair of terminals. All seems ok here as well.

So right now my findings are pointing out at the controller, which I wouldn´t know how to troubleshoot, let alone fix.

But before spending more cash plus the waiting time for a new one, I was hoping you savvy guys can provide input. Please let me know of any other piece of info I could provide.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Since there´s no battery detected, the Besst tool cannot talk to the controller.

I have a home built battery and the BESST tool still talks to the controller.

Have you tried calibrating the motor using BESST ? Mine would work for a while after recalibrating ( not sure why it should ) but eventually the resistance built up so much in the connector that no longer worked. If it does calibrate and runs under calibration then you are probably looking at those connectors, ribbon cable perhaps ?

The controllers are not a lot of money on AliExpress, you may just have to bite the bullet so as to speak. Perhaps change the interconnecting ribbon cable as well at the same time. If its not the controller you have a spare.

Sorry I can't be of more help at this stage.

 

[MrFixit]

I got a replacement controller from Green Bike Kit; Bafang M510 controller 36V 43V 48V 250W for FC2.0 motor - greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

 

[Karamba!]

Thanks to both. I already pulled the trigger with a new controller on Ali @ 74 USD.
I could not calibrate the motor since there's no battery feeding the controller, or perhaps better said, the controller is not receiving power from the battery. As I mentioned, one random time that the battery did show up for a moment, I could reach the controller through the Besst Tool. However, that happened just that time and never again.
I just hope the new controller is the final solution. I want my bike back!

 

[Waynemarlow]

Surely if there is no power to the motor, the BESST tool must be powering up your display via the USB port in your computer. That must then mean its a battery / battery connector fault ? Just because you can see a voltage level on your multimeter does not mean you have power. Electronics can show the voltage level and yet as soon as the motor tries to draw power it will revert to 0 volts. Capacitiors and protection diodes have a habbit of confusing things.

 

[Karamba!]

Surely if there is no power to the motor, the BESST tool must be powering up your display via the USB port in your computer. That must then mean its a battery / battery connector fault ? Just because you can see a voltage level on your multimeter does not mean you have power. Electronics can show the voltage level and yet as soon as the motor tries to draw power it will revert to 0 volts. Capacitiors and protection diodes have a habbit of confusing things.

I have checked the battery harness and it´s conducting fine. If there´s an issue with the battery, like if the BMS is malfunctioning, I would be screwed. I´m right now crossing my fingers that the issue is in the controller.
How else could I troubleshoot the battery then?

 

[patdam]

I would share fail apen last week with my M510 (rev2). Firstly i need to said that i haven't used it since 2 months (i use it only when i go riding several days with other ebike).
1st day: the motor don't work (i don't test it before), nothing error code, speed correctely displayed on HMI. the throttle functioning correctely. With help of throttle i can climb with motor help. During fewer time (+- 10 mn) motor function correctely one time. I can perform the exit with the throttle.
2nd day and 3th days: the motor functioning perfectely

I think that sometime an problem can occur if motor don't used for a long time (corrosion or greasse that freeze ?). Who provide mistake of sensor (torque ?)

 

[Karamba!]

I would share fail apen last week with my M510 (rev2). Firstly i need to said that i haven't used it since 2 months (i use it only when i go riding several days with other ebike).
1st day: the motor don't work (i don't test it before), nothing error code, speed correctely displayed on HMI. the throttle functioning correctely. With help of throttle i can climb with motor help. During fewer time (+- 10 mn) motor function correctly one time. I can perform the exit with the throttle.
2nd day and 3th days: the motor functioning perfectely

I think that sometime an problem can occur if motor don't used for a long time (corrosion or greasse that freeze ?). Who provide mistake of sensor (torque ?)

It's been in use 2-3 times a week, at least a couple of hours each, 4k kms in a year. I would consider it medium use. No downtime prior it failing. Sorry but I could not understand your question about the torque sensor, but it hardly has anything to do with the problem anyway, since the issue is that the system does not start, the controller is not being powered, so there's no error message, or if there is one, it cannot be read, neither on the display, nor on BESST.

 

[patdam]

It's been in use 2-3 times a week, at least a couple of hours each, 4k kms in a year. I would consider it medium use. No downtime prior it failing. Sorry but I could not understand your question about the torque sensor, but it hardly has anything to do with the problem anyway, since the issue is that the system does not start, the controller is not being powered, so there's no error message, or if there is one, it cannot be read, neither on the display, nor on BESST.

Sorry. i would not said that it's the cause of your problems. i just share my experiency in your subject who speak about not fuctioning motor to help somebody who looking for solution for same failure consequencies.

 

[Karamba!]

The new controller did not fix the issue. I have run our of ideas...

 

[MrFixit]

This was the controller I had to replace. Yours is not the same?

 

[Waynemarlow]

The new controller did not fix the issue. I have run our of ideas...

Can you now calibrate the motor using BESST ?

It may be worthwhile using a bench power supply to power the motor ( out of the frame ), the connector is just a simple XT60 connector which is widely available. Last time I changed a controller I simply connected motor / display / wiring on a bench and connected BESST up to calibrate before installing it back in the frame using a battery connected directly to check the correct operation of the motor.

If it does calibrate then it has to be the battery or the display not pulling the start line voltage to the correct voltage level.

 

[MrFixit]

I had a similar issue with my m820 motor, sometimes it would not switch on, but it usually did when the charger was connected to it. Several people suggested that somehow the BMS was going into sleep mode. I managed to get a replacement BMS but before I fitted it I found out that if the connector that has all the wires attached to each individual cells was disconnected and reconnected it hard resets the BMS. So I did that and now I can switch on the motor again via the remote. Maybe you could try that?

 

[Karamba!]

This was the controller I had to replace. Yours is not the same?

View attachment 148398

Yes, that's the one. M510 FC2.0.

Can you now calibrate the motor using BESST ?

It may be worthwhile using a bench power supply to power the motor ( out of the frame ), the connector is just a simple XT60 connector which is widely available. Last time I changed a controller I simply connected motor / display / wiring on a bench and connected BESST up to calibrate before installing it back in the frame using a battery connected directly to check the correct operation of the motor.

If it does calibrate then it has to be the battery or the display not pulling the start line voltage to the correct voltage level.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a bench power supply, or another E10 battery for that matters. That for sure would clarify a lot.

I had a similar issue with my m820 motor, sometimes it would not switch on, but it usually did when the charger was connected to it. Several people suggested that somehow the BMS was going into sleep mode. I managed to get a replacement BMS but before I fitted it I found out that if the connector that has all the wires attached to each individual cells was disconnected and reconnected it hard resets the BMS. So I did that and now I can switch on the motor again via the remote. Maybe you could try that?

Thanks for the tip. Can you clarify what connector are you referring to? Does this imply to disassembly the battery up to the cell block level?
Can the BMS be the culprit, despite the battery is measuring 54V with the voltmeter?

 

[Radolf]

I had a similar issue with my m820 motor, sometimes it would not switch on, but it usually did when the charger was connected to it. Several people suggested that somehow the BMS was going into sleep mode. I managed to get a replacement BMS but before I fitted it I found out that if the connector that has all the wires attached to each individual cells was disconnected and reconnected it hard resets the BMS. So I did that and now I can switch on the motor again via the remote. Maybe you could try that?

Please tell me what brand of BMS you have?
Is this the connector?

 

[Waynemarlow]

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a bench power supply, or another E10 battery for that matters. That for sure would clarify a lot.

I think you are going to have to rig up some sort of power supply to eliminate the battery. 4 x PP3 ( if you are on 36 volts ) batteries in series perhaps may have enough oomp as the calibration mode is in a relatively unloaded state ?

Can the BMS be the culprit, despite the battery is measuring 54V with the voltmeter?

Yes, electronics can display volts to a voltmeter but not have enough power to boot the motor up. I built a testing rig to load the batteries as I had an experience where a friend built a battery but it wouldn't run his motor. I spent hours going through the connections with a voltmeter which showed all the right numbers. Fortunately we had other batteries to test the motor and those showed it was the battery. Turned out in the end to be 2 series links not correctly spot welded and under load they went straight into high resistance. We only found them by loading up the battery.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Your tool batteries such as the Dewalt XR series would also be fine.

 

[Karamba!]

Thanks for the input Wayne. Out of all things that could be the culprit, I was hoping that it was not the battery.To be honest , I'm quite affraid of messing up with it, but a man has to do what a man has to do I guess.
I'm not at all worried to calibrate the new controller, as my old one is probably just fine. I can switch it back if needed.
I have requested support from Chilli, and provided her with a detailed report of all the troubleshooting and part replacement done. However she isn't understanding that since there's no power @ the controller, the pc cannot communicate with it

 

[MrFixit]

Please tell me what brand of BMS you have?
Is this the connector?
View attachment 148441

Yes, thats the connection, see my pic, my bms does not appear to be branded