Have you had your eeb derestricted?

[RustyMTB]

..........and...........my point is that claiming you were on private land when a 3rd party injury accident happened will not wash if you were not on private land. It is surely clear that any such incident that then resulted in police investigation would be very clear where the incident happened. So the fact you can ride a desrestricted pedelec legally on private land is not a get out of jail free card.
I know this is an emotive subject and personally, I could not care less what people chose to do to their bikes, but it is surely worth them knowing the risks.

Emotive for you maybe. The exemption exists nevertheless

Bloke buys a derestriction kit off an lbs, crashes, the cops turn up at the lbs who say the bloke promised it was for use on private land only. If they're cute, they'd have a signed chit saying so too.

Bloke on the hook, lbs not so much. Your original assertion that the lbs would be complicit in committing an offence is pony.

 

[sunstoner]

I have installed one on my Bosch Gen 2, like you said I also do the road to trails. Only downside is a faster wear of the smaller sprockets of the cassette.
I got one immediately when I bought my bike, never had a single problem / error with it( never updated the motor in 2.5 years to)

Its mostly when im sailing along covering the miles on the flat when im wishing it wasnt restricted, theyre usually the boring miles either on the way or way back. When im on trails 25kph is fine 99% time for me.

 

[sunstoner]

In which case that LBS is incredibly naive. They would be making themselves complicit in the bike becoming illegal and in any situation where the bike was involved in an injury to a 3rd person.....the bike then being found to be illegal........they risk considerably more as a business than the rider.

Tbf, they did say to be used on private land only, But of course we all know dont we?!.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Tbf, they did say to be used on private land only, But of course we all know dont we?!.

there you go. Arsed of lbs covered.

now the rest is up to the individual.... you make your choices and take your chances ??

 

[sunstoner]

As long as the lbs helps honour the warranty if it comes to a claim, do it!

That'll be my first question!

 

[Agu]

I think there are three different questions.

1. Should you obey blindly the rules, even if they don't make sense? I know this is a difficult question, and many think that it shouldn't be a question.
2. What would be the right speed to regulate as the max if any? In the US it's about 32 km/h and in Europe 25 km/h. In EU terms US citizens are criminals on their e-bikes.
3. The third question is that if the speed is the problem and it definitely should be restricted to any specific point, should we restrict analog bikes also - after all they are so easy to drive above 25 km/h.

I personally think that the 25 km/h restriction is too low, about 32 km/h would be ok and after all, you should be able to take the responsibility yourself and not speed close to pedestrians. Even 25 km/h can be deadly when handled poorly. You can't save the world by creating an endless amount of rules. Alternatively, you can give freedom together with responsibility. It works in business, perhaps it would work in society also.

 

[Sander23]

I think there are three different questions.

1. Should you obey blindly the rules, even if they don't make sense? I know this is a difficult question, and many think that it shouldn't be a question.
2. What would be the right speed to regulate as the max if any? In the US it's about 32 km/h and in Europe 25 km/h. In EU terms US citizens are criminals on their e-bikes.
3. The third question is that if the speed is the problem and it definitely should be restricted to any specific point, should we restrict analog bikes also - after all they are so easy to drive above 25 km/h.

I personally think that the 25 km/h restriction is too low, about 32 km/h would be ok and after all, you should be able to take the responsibility yourself and not speed close to pedestrians. Even 25 km/h can be deadly when handled poorly. You can't save the world by creating an endless amount of rules. Alternatively, you can give freedom together with responsibility. It works in business, perhaps it would work in society also.

If the bike could assist to 32kph and not 25kph there wouldn't be a need for many to deristrict.

And why would speed be a problem? A roadie can go 40-50kph and no one talks about it being a problem why would an ebike be a problem.

 

[Hamina]

If one can cycle over 25kmh with his/her natural power, the logic that delimiter would make one automatically guilty in accident cases is illogical.

You would need at least the telemetry data from the bike as evidence to witness that accident happened only because one was riding in a speed that would be totally impossible without electric assistance.

You can get country/continent specific fine for riding a bike that doesn't meet the official requirements, but that doesn't make you automatically guilty for everything.

 

[MrSimmo]

Agree, especially as the “rules” appear to be written by people who have little or no awareness of how the world works.

Chris Grayling for example, former transport secretary; but hasn’t driven his own car or used public transportation for years as he has his own driver, funded by the public who were at the mercy of his spectacular initiatives…

Or his follow up Grant Shapps who can’t figure out if he is Grant or Michael Green…

 

[sunstoner]

Having sampled near 30 miles of unbridled power on my brother-in-laws Trek in 2 sessions I gotta say I've got mixed feelings about it. Had a great time arsing about on farmland with differring terrain.

On the plus -

The experience feels way better and way more natural not having the 15.5mph cut off. So much more smoother and linear and way more like a traditional bike experience allbeit with a dollop of help.

I used Tour mode mostly (didnt have Tour+) which sits nicely between 16-21mph. The bike also felt a bit punchier between 10-19mph in Tour. Must be something to do with the fact that the motor can now keep pushing so I get access to more of the powerband. (or something like that!? or just simply the placibo affect). Eco might be a sweetspot for more people too. I only had limited time so didnt try Eco.

Turbo now feels ridiculous now its unleashed. 30mph+ is a relative doddle to achieve but feels too fast and unnatural for an emtb imo. 100m runner doing a marathon springs to mind. However I reckon the US restrictions would suit emtbs way way better, almost perfectly with probably a topend of 22mph being the ideal. It defintely makes the current limit of 15.5mph seem totally out of line. its a ridiculous limit.

I didnt get all scientific on the battery use. All I can say is that it easily covered 30 miles with plenty battery left, well 2 bars left that is after a mix of Tour and Turbo.



The downer -

Possibly feels like ur cheating yourself by always having the assistance at every speed, although I dare say I probably spend 99% of my ridetime with assistance anyway. Greater speeds would concern me re bikes longevity. if you were regularly gadding about in the early to mid 20s it could quickly eat the bike alive. Maybe?!?


I also reckon that you dont need this on any trail parks unless its the boost needed for jumps or for getting that adrenaline hit on the tight n twisties. Im no trail monster tbh and still relatively new to emtbs and I just enjoy XC but often find im on tarmac a fair bit and 15.5mph just feels so obviously limiting in comparison to this.


Ultimately I am v tempted I really am. You dont have to hoon about at daft speeds but being able to cruise between 15-20mph along flatter surfaces is whats missing for me. My bro-in-laws Trek felt like how an ebike should feel, just a better exerience. Ultimately you ought to know your own limits but more importantly be a good judge of what speed is necessary given the situation as we do when we drive. Itd be wrong to go all out at a busy Sherwood pines for example but possibly ok when its quiet or when theres zero people traffic. Just common sense really.

Anyway, thats my long winded thoughts on derestriction.

 

[Sidepod]

I’m not sure it needs a great deal of thought ?

It’s not an expensive mod. It’s switchable. It’s a nice to have if you need it/want it.
I find it comes into its own if you need a good run up at a big feature/climb. It can be frustrating if the cut off kicks in at a critical point.

 

[sunstoner]

I’m not sure it needs a great deal of thought ?

It’s not an expensive mod. It’s switchable. It’s a nice to have if you need it/want it.
I find it comes into its own if you need a good run up at a big feature/climb. It can be frustrating if the cut off kicks in at a critical point.

It felt like no brainer to me when I was on the bike but its still the legalities of it which can tweak the conscience a bit.

 

[Mikerb]

Having sampled near 30 miles of unbridled power on my brother-in-laws Trek in 2 sessions I gotta say I've got mixed feelings about it. Had a great time arsing about on farmland with differring terrain.

On the plus -

The experience feels way better and way more natural not having the 15.5mph cut off. So much more smoother and linear and way more like a traditional bike experience allbeit with a dollop of help.

I used Tour mode mostly (didnt have Tour+) which sits nicely between 16-21mph. The bike also felt a bit punchier between 10-19mph in Tour. Must be something to do with the fact that the motor can now keep pushing so I get access to more of the powerband. (or something like that!? or just simply the placibo affect). Eco might be a sweetspot for more people too. I only had limited time so didnt try Eco.

Turbo now feels ridiculous now its unleashed. 30mph+ is a relative doddle to achieve but feels too fast and unnatural for an emtb imo. 100m runner doing a marathon springs to mind. However I reckon the US restrictions would suit emtbs way way better, almost perfectly with probably a topend of 22mph being the ideal. It defintely makes the current limit of 15.5mph seem totally out of line. its a ridiculous limit.

I didnt get all scientific on the battery use. All I can say is that it easily covered 30 miles with plenty battery left, well 2 bars left that is after a mix of Tour and Turbo.



The downer -

Possibly feels like ur cheating yourself by always having the assistance at every speed, although I dare say I probably spend 99% of my ridetime with assistance anyway. Greater speeds would concern me re bikes longevity. if you were regularly gadding about in the early to mid 20s it could quickly eat the bike alive. Maybe?!?


I also reckon that you dont need this on any trail parks unless its the boost needed for jumps or for getting that adrenaline hit on the tight n twisties. Im no trail monster tbh and still relatively new to emtbs and I just enjoy XC but often find im on tarmac a fair bit and 15.5mph just feels so obviously limiting in comparison to this.


Ultimately I am v tempted I really am. You dont have to hoon about at daft speeds but being able to cruise between 15-20mph along flatter surfaces is whats missing for me. My bro-in-laws Trek felt like how an ebike should feel, just a better exerience. Ultimately you ought to know your own limits but more importantly be a good judge of what speed is necessary given the situation as we do when we drive. Itd be wrong to go all out at a busy Sherwood pines for example but possibly ok when its quiet or when theres zero people traffic. Just common sense really.

Anyway, thats my long winded thoughts on derestriction.

A very balanced perspective and I doubt anyone would disagree that the US limit is desireable, and since the bikes used in the states set up for the US limit are exactly the same as ours I can see no reason for a speed increase to be harmful to the bike ( ...well maybe faster brake pad wear!)
The issue as you pointed out, is that deristriction makes your bike illegal to use anywhere other than private land with the owners permission and in the event of a 3rd party injury accident the consequences can be severe both for the rider and the overall E bike community (given the inevitable negative press coverage).
I would support the UK setting its own rules for pedelecs now that we are no longer bound by EU regulations. The question is how do we organise in order to lobby Parliament for such a change. Keep in mind that EMTB is a pretty small percentage of the total E Bike market so any attempt to do that on behalf of EMTBs would gain no traction. It needs to come from the E Bike industry.

 

[Ripping g]

Both are limited and on the downhills makes no difference I’m still the fastest in town ??

 

[DtEW]

I think there are three different questions.

1. Should you obey blindly the rules, even if they don't make sense? I know this is a difficult question, and many think that it shouldn't be a question.

I think you need to work your phrasing there. Many people obey bad rules with eyes wide open because they have fully-considered the consequences of being caught breaking those bad rules... and those potential consequences might be more than they're willing to risk given however strongly/weakly they feel about whatever the bad rule is restricting. Even if the risk and consequences might be low, a lot of people just don't care about the marginal advantage breaking such rules give them. For some, it's not worth the trouble to even think about. I wouldn't even call that "blind", because they know how little they care for the "advantage" to not even bother working out the risks and consequences.

The adverb "blindly" imparts your judgement of ignorance, which skews to answer to, "nobody should ever do anything blindly".

 

[RustyIron]

The issue as you pointed out, is that deristriction makes your bike illegal to use anywhere other than private land

I'm not from the same country as many of the folks here, and I'm a little confused. Are there law enforcement goons stalking you on the trails? How can they discern when your assist turns off? We have our goons here, but before they give you a ticket, they first have to catch you. And if you're a gentleman, then you just have a discussion.

My bike cuts off at 20 mph, but honestly, I don't pedal my Amish MTB much faster than that on the flat. On the DH, I've had my current aMTB up to 45mph, and my eMTB to 40 mph. Those speeds are silly. Even though I'm sure I could figure out how to get more speed out of the assist, I'm fine with where it's at.

 

[DtEW]

The issue as you pointed out, is that deristriction makes your bike illegal to use anywhere other than private land with the owners permission and in the event of a 3rd party injury accident the consequences can be severe both for the rider and the overall E bike community (given the inevitable negative press coverage).

I'm not from the same country as many of the folks here, and I'm a little confused. Are there law enforcement goons stalking you on the trails? How can they discern when your assist turns off? We have our goons here, but before they give you a ticket, they first have to catch you. And if you're a gentleman, then you just have a discussion.

You conveniently cropped out the part of his sentence that would have allowed anyone to infer how they can "discern" and "catch you". So I have quoted his whole sentence.

If you are involved in a serious incident, law enforcement will take your eMTB into evidence. If there is any accusation that excessive speed is involved, "modifications for performance" is going to be the first thing they'll look for. This happens on the road with cars, this will happen easier with bikes. This is true whether the situation is in the UK or the US.

 

[Gary]

And any decent lawyer (or indeed defendant) can argue the case that 22-32mph isn't outwith normal non motorised cycling speeds.

My max speed is in excess of 40mph every single road ride on my normal road bike. Occasionally 50mph+ depending on the elevation.

The motor assist limit law is stupid. And based on nothing.

Have you ever tried holding 32mph on the flat on a derestricted Emtb? (class 1 pedalec) or are you blindly arguing your point? ?

 

[RustyMTB]

And any decent lawyer (or indeed defendant) can argue the case that 22-32mph isn't outwith normal non motorised cycling speeds.

You can stand up in court & argue that until you're blue in the face, it wouldn't change anything. The law is the law, if it goes over 15.5mph/250 watts & doesn't have IVA, isn't registered, taxed & carrying a number plate, it's illegal.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

I would support the UK setting its own rules for pedelecs now that we are no longer bound by EU regulations. The question is how do we organise in order to lobby Parliament for such a change.

So you are saying there could be potential benefits to brexit? ?

I’ll get my coat…..

 

[Jimbo Vills]

The majority of the forum must never exceed the speed limit. Or had the joy of pinning a 200bhp bike on the queens highway ?

we probably all break the law every day…..

it just amuses me how everyone gets on their moral high ground when it comes to eMTB and cycling in general….

Make your choices and take your chances

 

[Sander23]

You can stand up in court & argue that until you're blue in the face, it wouldn't change anything. The law is the law, if it goes over 15.5mph/250 watts & doesn't have IVA, isn't registered, taxed & carrying a number plate, it's illegal.

Most of these laws are made by people who know barely anything about it, and the people advising them are even more useless

 

[RustyMTB]

Most of these laws are made by people who know barely anything about it, and the people advising them are even more useless

OK and?

 

[RustyMTB]

The more nuanced debate is risk v reward. Anyone with their head screwed on might well reason riding out of the way trails in the sticks with practically no chance of mowing down some hapless dog walker & even less chance of bumping into the one copper who knows about ebikes is a chance worth taking. I would.

 

[MrSimmo]

Just get Nick Freeman to represent you if you get tugged by the old bill and you’ll be fine ?

 

[Gary]

You can stand up in court & argue that until you're blue in the face, it wouldn't change anything. The law is the law

You're wrong. You don't seem to understand how court actually works. But you sound like a good little citizen so I wouldn't expect you to know any better.

 

[RustyMTB]

You're wrong. You don't seem to understand how court actually works. But you sound like a good little citizen so I wouldn't expect you to know any better.

F**k me, you're a judge now? ? ? ?

Stop talking shite lad. Your nonsense above amounts to a line on how the law is garbage, followed by two more on what a bike boss you are. The psychological flaws are amusing if nothing else but the idea that if you ended up in court with a de restricted eeb, you'd get off by pointing out the law isn't a very good law is soooo cute.

 

[Gary]

Stop making up nonsense I didn't say.

You clearly don't understand how court works

 

[Gary]

You also seem to have forgotten how a normal bike even works. You don't have to be any more than proficient on a roadbike to reach 40mph and 50 just takes a little bravery and a long hill.

 

[Gary]

Ps. Why do you even care?