Have you had your eeb derestricted?

[Sidepod]

Basically eeb motors work on a big reduction ratio ie the motor spins quickly, lets say 3000rpm and it reduces at a ratio of approx 1:37 giving a cadence of around 80rpm. A cadence of 70 equates to a motor rpm of 2590. From this you can easily see there is not a huge variation in motor speed for a small variation in cadence. In other words to move the speed limiter by a few kph makes virtually no difference to how hard the motor works. Chances are, if you're de-restricted you will remain at a similar cadence but with a higher gear.

 

[Norange]

Does the restricting really affect technically the motor warranty? I could imagine that the bike has to withstand daily commuting in Swiss alpine roads and that should cause more stress to motor than the any current speed-sensor-cheating delimiter.

In the end cheating the speed sensor data to motor can't change the 30min average power. It's a different thing if delimiter permits more torque than OEM setup.

My view on this would be twofold:

1. Manufacturers need to be seen to discourage derestriction. Voiding warranty is a good way to prove this. Doesn't mean all manufacturers would do this or it would apply as a blanket rule.
2. The manufacturer has tested and proved the S/W as per product release. They're not obligated to investigate how a user has changed the code, they only know there's a change. So voided warranty seems reasonable to me.

 

[R120]

I think the speed limit was picked because 15mph is a pace of a good marathon runner. Hard to ban something that goes as fast as a person on foot.

Just look at those Sur Rons doing 40mph in Swinley definitely going to get a response from users/landowner.

wow that is unbelievable, I am surprised they didnt get a shooing from one of the locals!

 

[Andy.M]

Stupid question time. What does eeb stand for?

 

[Doomanic]

It's an acceptable abbreviation for eBike.

 

[Konanige]

Not felt the need on my SL can happily pedal above the limit all day, however I would ask How Bloody Big are your front chainrings Cos I'm spinning out at 20mph!!!

 

[Gary]

Think it's there for the safety of the majority who can't achieve that speed or control it when things get sideways. Especially on road, where most drivers are assuming you're doing about 10mph and thus often put riders at risk who are doing more than that. Also off road, I'd expect regular cyclists to have learnt how to behave responsibly around other trail users.

Dude. You just made all that up.

I guess from your thoughts on road safety you don't actually cycle on the road too often? I do (about 100miles every week) and I can tell you it's actually far safer cycling at around 20mph in traffic than 10mph.

Did you realise there's actually no legal speed limit for (normal) bicycles on UK roads? Our road speed limits simply don't apply to bicycles.

UK road laws for the safety of cyclists are absolutely farcicle

 

[Gary]

Not felt the need on my SL can happily pedal above the limit all day, however I would ask How Bloody Big are your front chainrings Cos I'm spinning out at 20mph!!!

in that case you simply can't hold a decent cadence.

 

[04fuxake]

I think the problem EMBN have is they are continually having to come up with new content on a very narrow subject hence, quite a lot of it can seem a little pointless and also they have to keep their sponsors happy, which they are currently seemingly doing with the EP8.

I view it as the e-bikers version of Top Gear but usually enjoy it all the same.

You can tell they're really stuck for content ideas and it seems they have some vendor lock-in. I get more varied e-mtb content from Sam Pilgrim.

 

[Peaky Rider]

You can tell they're really stuck for content ideas and it seems they have some vendor lock-in. I get more varied e-mtb content from Sam Pilgrim.

Isn't Sam more of a hooner than a news bringer?

I haven't seen anything bike test specific from Rob lately, I always enjoyed and trusted his reviews/reports

 

[Norange]

Dude. You just made all that up.

I guess from your thoughts on road safety you don't actually cycle on the road too often? I do (about 100miles every week) and I can tell you it's actually far safer cycling at around 20mph in traffic than 10mph.

I did not make it up. I've done plenty of cycling on the road. Perhaps the point is not very well explained. If you're doing 5000 miles a year on the road, your abilities have almost no relevance - you think it's safer because your instincts and skills allow you to make it so. If someone left hooks you or does a stupid close pass or overtakes on a blind bend, you are expecting and reacting to that based on your experience. Plenty of new riders on ebikes, IMO the legislation is more aimed at them than riders with decades of experience.

Although, to be fair, it is an opinion, so it is made up from my own experiences and viewpoint.

 

[B1rdie]

I have changed the limit from EU to USA 32 km/h and found that keeping momentum at 32 km/h and 100-110 rpm cadence is like riding a magic carpet, with a much better rewarding to effort relation that got me addicted so I strongly recomend not to do it.

 

[Smithy]

As above I change mine to 32km. I changed it with an app I bought on android only.
It makes the bike what it should be! perfect for trails and not so bad on the road.
I’m still under warranty and so I rate I’ve lost that.

 

[Gary]

I did not make it up.

C'mon now. you totally did just make it up. Why else would you have used the caveat of "I think" at the beginning?

I've done plenty of cycling on the road. Perhaps the point is not very well explained. If you're doing 5000 miles a year on the road, your abilities have almost no relevance -

Well that seems awfully handy that you can somehow just dismiss the thoughts of anyone who disagrees with your thoughts based sloely on them having too much experience of the subject.

you think it's safer because your instincts and skills allow you to make it so.

No. I know it's safer from 35 years of cycling and driving on UK roads and paying attention to what happens at every junction, crossing and traffic light.
I've also ridden extensively on roads with kids and beginners without those instincts or skills during that time too.

If someone left hooks you or does a stupid close pass or overtakes on a blind bend, you are expecting and reacting to that based on your experience.

Yes. I am. but that does not give you the right to dismiss my thoughts or experience. I pass complete strangers of pretty much all levels riding bicycles pretty much every day.

Plenty of new riders on ebikes, IMO the legislation is more aimed at them than riders with decades of experience.

Don't kid yourself. The UK government couldn't actually GAF about the safety of cyclists. One look at pretty much any inner city cycle lane in the country would tell you this. Our cycle lane network is an absolute joke. And the law does SFA to protect cyclists on our roads.

Here's a final thought. Why on earth would there need to be an assistance limit at all OFF road for a class 1 pedalec (Emtb) when on the flat the 250w rated assistance means it'll top out naturally at around 30-35mph due to wind resistance just the same as a normal mtb and around 23mph on any climb of decent gradient? (Even derestricted the motor is fairly irrelivant downhill).
The only actual difference between a derestricted Emtb and an mtb is how long you can hold a decent speed for. The actual top speeds are surprisingly similar.

 

[Swissrider]

Here in Switzerland nearly all ebikes are restricted to 25kph but one can buy ebikes where the motor cuts out at 40kph, but the latter has to be registerd and have a number plate. They have the same motors so these ideas of derestricting adding strain to the motor simply by going faster is probably wrong. The gearing is different anyway so the motor isn’t turning faster and there is probably far more strain on a steep hill on a normal EMTB. Technically these 40kph bikes are considered to be a motorised vehiclesand so are not allowed off road. These bikes are popular for commuting where a 25kph cut out would be really annoying, so, I can understand wanting a higher cut out for road use but how often in mountain bike situations does one want to go faster than 25kph uphill? On the flat maybe very occasionally but isn’t mountain biking about mountains? Or at least hills. I like speed, but I get that downhill. Uphill used to be a slog on analogue bikes, now it’s far more interesting and enjoyable because of the technical challenge of the terrain one can get up on an ebike, but I don’t need to do this at over 25kph, in fact on most of the rides I do, it is impossible to get anywhere near this speed.

 

[Norange]

Yes. I am. but that does not give you the right to dismiss my thoughts or experience. I pass complete strangers of pretty much all levels riding bicycles pretty much every day.

I'm not dismissing your experience at all - the exact opposite is true.

Don't kid yourself. The UK government couldn't actually GAF about the safety of cyclists.

What's the law for then? Obviously it wasn't set by the UK government but they haven't shown an interest in changing it.

Here's a final thought. Why on earth would there need to be an assistance limit at all OFF road for a class 1 pedalec (Emtb) when on the flat the 250w rated assistance means it'll top out naturally at around 30-35mph due to wind resistance just the same as a normal mtb and around 23mph on any climb of decent gradient? (Even derestricted the motor is fairly irrelivant downhill).

Because anyone riding on the flat at 30-35mph on an mtb has a bloody decent chance of having good skills, experience and peripheral awareness. A decent proportion of e-bike riders won't have that - enough for them to be riding at 30+mph to be a serious risk to themselves and others. You'd possibly know, what % of ebike riders would class themselves as a novice?

 

[Gary]

You've either completely missed my point or you clearly haven't ridden a derestricted Emtb at 30mph on the flat.

 

[RustyMTB]

My ave speed across hundreds of rides if my Strava is to be believed is about 8.5mph on my trail bike & 12ish on my eeb. that's a reasonable gain in percent terms but it will all be in the climbs & I defnitely don't feel it on the flat or descents. I wouldn't mind a bit more for transitions where I easily top out within a few cranks, those can be tedious once I'm pedaling a 25kg big unit but that would be all I'd ever want from a derestrct.

 

[Norange]

You've either completely missed my point or you clearly haven't ridden a derestricted Emtb at 30mph on the flat.

I haven't ridden any bike at 30mph on the flat, as far as I can remember. Help me to understand your point?

 

[Crazee horse]

Gen 2 cube 70nm derestricted, not needed off Rd or trails but on Rd it's nice to cruise along faster than 15.5mph without having to pedal that much harder. I don't tear around at top speed, just like a little over 15mph. For the record on a really hard sprint I think I've maxed out at about 32mph, but again too many idiots ready to pull out in front of you etc. 20 ish would be a happy ish limit.

 

[Gary]

I haven't ridden any bike at 30mph on the flat, as far as I can remember. Help me to understand your point?

Then you of all people shouldn't find my point too difficult to understand.

The point is. it's not actually easy (for the beginners you're worried about) to sustain a high speed even on a derestricted Emtb/pedalec. but with many 20mph zones they should be able to move along closer to the flow of inner city/town traffic so actually be safer on the roads.

 

[Tubby G]

You can tell they're really stuck for content ideas and it seems they have some vendor lock-in. I get more varied e-mtb content from Sam Pilgrim.

Sam spends every day looking for the best lines to send no matter where he is, whether street, park, trail, DIY. His mindset is to be looking for that ultimate adrenaline rush at all times. His stair sets of doom are just brilliant.

Pilg’s channel just makes you want to jump on your saddle and do crazy shit as soon as you leave your house. I’d rather watch that then some tips on what to take in your car when you go to the trail centre

 

[Norange]

Then you of all people shouldn't find my point too difficult to understand.

The point is. it's not actually easy (for the beginners you're worried about) to sustain a high speed even on a derestricted Emtb/pedalec. but with many 20mph zones they should be able to move along closer to the flow of inner city/town traffic so actually be safer on the roads.

Thought you were on about off road? As in, why would there be any restriction at all off road? And your view is that beginners would be closer to traffic speed on road? So you'd support a 20mph restriction? Or still no restriction at all?

My view is that beginners don't have the skills or experience that are helpful when going faster. I'm not arguing for restriction at 10mph! Just that 15mph seems enough to me on balance, given it has to cover on and off road and allow for novices to learn without putting themselves and others at too much risk.

 

[Gary]

Dude. Everyone was a beginner at some point. Why are you so fixated on it?
I know relative beginners to mtb that would put 99% of this forum to shame bike riding skills wise.
Riding a bike at 20 or 25mph is not anywhere near as difficult or as dangerous as you seem to think it is.
Despite having a motor to assist the bike it's still the rider who chooses how fast to pedal the thing. We're not talking about throttle controlled ebikes here.

Rather than focusing on road or off road I'm talking about assistance speed restriction law in general . There's no real reason for it to be as low as 15mph on or off road. But on road a limit that low is almost pointless for anyone BUT a beginner. and no. I don't actually think they need to be speed restricted. The motor torque and power limit of a class1 pedalec keeps it's top speeds in check already.

Don't you think you should probably at least go and ride a derestricted class1 Ebike bike before spending an evening here arguing about how unsafe they are?

 

[TPEHAK]

The Speedbox for my Yamaha PW-X is the fisrs and the most valuable mod I have installed. 20 mph is too slow.

 

[04fuxake]

Sam spends every day looking for the best lines to send no matter where he is, whether street, park, trail, DIY. His mindset is to be looking for that ultimate adrenaline rush at all times. His stair sets of doom are just brilliant.

Pilg’s channel just makes you want to jump on your saddle and do crazy shit as soon as you leave your house. I’d rather watch that then some tips on what to take in your car when you go to the trail centre

Rob Warner's channel is gold too. He's a massive e-mtb fan.

 

[Tubby G]

Rob Warner's channel is gold too. He's a massive e-mtb fan.

Yes he’s funny. A lot of talking rather than riding, but funny nonetheless

I like channels that inspire me to ride and push my limits. Doesn’t really mater whether it’s eeb or mtb as most of the fun is to be had on the descent. Brendog’s channel is fantastic too, Cardy’s, Matt Jones, Olly Wilkins etc - Hans Rey has started making some handy ‘tutorial’ vids, I’m sure his channel will grow massive soon

 

[DrStupid]

Not derestricted.

It would be pointless for me. On trails I ride, its HP limiting the top speed, not the software.

Now... I'd like more power, but even with more power available, I doubt I'd be bouncing off the limiter. I have a motorcycle for that stuff. Oddly enough the dirtbike that remains in the stable, has not been riden in years.

 

[B1rdie]

And on the downhills, no need for a motor if you have....


Bananas

 

[DrStupid]

And on the downhills, no need for a motor if you have....


Bananas

Now that looks dangerous.

That rig (banana + bike + pilot) looks like an instant yard-sale.

If he somehow managed to crash, going in backwards.. well, it would be a mess either way.