Has having an Ebb changed your view on having a battery car?

[MountainBoy]

Certainly the main volume of new hybrid and probably BEV car purchase, is by businesses/ their employees, on lease rather than private consumers. Not surprising since if you look at the BIK ( Benefit in Kind) tax for even the most humble petrol or diesel car compared to a hybrid or BEV it gives them no real choice. Since these are typically 3 or 4 year leases they are not concerned with long term value either. If you removed the distortion provided by tax rates both BIK and road tax, you would get a true picture of consumer demand.....and I reckon it would be minimal.
ps.........as an illustration of how things are manipulated, Diesel was strangled on the basis of particulate emissions............in reality the majority of particulate emission from a car comes from its tyres........whether it is a ICE or BEV.

Ummm, I think the relevant statistic is not which is more, but what causes the most harm. The whole "tires are the big polluter" (vs. fossil fuel combustion byproducts) was disproven years ago. Much like the tobacco industry came out with a bunch of bogus science to make smoking look harmless, the oil industry funds massive disinformation to confuse public opinion. Because they rake in billions of dollars every single day they have everyone as their customer. Disinformation is very valuable to them. Which is why so many people are so misinformed when it comes to EV's. They have been lied to.

 

[flash]

After 5 months of EV ownership, my reality is that 80% of the time our 2 EV's are better. 20% of the time we need the other stuff an EV isn't as strong at yet. Towing. Range. Size. I simply put this down to the simple reality that our home is at the beginning of the change from ICE vehicles. Not the end. But I'd rather try to be part of the solution than the problem.

Apart from our 2 Polestars, we still have my Defender and her T6. I also still have my hot hatch but I haven't driven it in a month. There's no point when the P2 leaves it for dead. When the Buzz comes to Oz we'll probably switch out the T6 but I can't see the Defender being replaced for a decade. To put in EV infrastructure where I tow our hybrid van is a loooooong way off. It's currently 3-400kms between fuel stations! Europe is compact. Oz isn't.

So I'm not jumping on the evangelist greenie bandwagon. I'm a realist. I want the smog and the noise gone but I still appreciate the roar of a V8. I'm happy with an 80% reduction in our house of the noise and particulates we push into the air. My electricity is 100% renewable and I have the solar and battery. Some of my motivation is green. Some is that because I work from home I'll have paid this off in three years after which it's more profit for me. Part of it is that recent events show that we're not as smart or well prepared as we all think we are. We didn't have blackouts this year like some did but it got close.

But there is simply no denying that most of the time the Polestar is just better, more convenient and cheaper to run. Driving past petrol stations is a joy. Those fuckers have been legally fixing prices for decades under the lie of the *fuel price cycle*. That's the one that peaks every Christmas and Easter holidays! Watching them evolve or go under is fine by me. And when the infrastructure is there I'll be more than happy to have a decent coffee or lunch while I use a public charger.

At first I had range anxiety (somewhat offset because I kept an ICE) but for mostly everyday it's not an issue, even with the decade behind (not kidding) EV infrastructure in Oz. On average I plug in at home twice a week for three hours in the middle of the night. I only charge to 70% now. If I have a big day I can get to 100% in 2 hours at home, while I'm asleep. Everyone goes on about waiting at chargers. That's only true if you're not in a house (a completely different issue but an important one). Because I charge at home I've spent more time filling the Defender than I have at EV public charging. And don't get me started about the AdBlue shortages here..... Hotels and Air B&B advertise if they have chargers so for short trips we get free charging while we're away. If I pay for it at home 400kms costs me AUD26. 800kms in the Defender is AUD220. We're a couple of hundred better off per car, per week.

Tesla recycles their car and home batteries into dense grid storage, where the increase in weight due to recycling isn't important. Polestar, Kia and Hyundai have recycling and sustainable programs in place or in development. Being green is part of the marketing. Same as the *vegan* leather. They need to improve. They will. It's in their interests to develop recycling policies.

If you're a single vehicle household, outside Europe or you tow or have a family of 7, or live in an apartment, then EV life is hard to work out. Otherwise, it's a no brainer. The arguments about dirty tyres, burning coal to produce electricity etc are all just excuses. If you want to you can work it out. An ICE car has tyres and fuel particulates. An EV doesn't have the fuel so it's already an improvement no matter how significant the tyre issue is. If your next car is a new car the BEV makes sense on so many levels. Not to mention I have a car with 480hP, Brembo 6 pot brakes and Ohlins race dampers. It's a weapon....

Gordon

 

[MountainBoy]

After 5 months of EV ownership, my reality is that 80% of the time our 2 EV's are better. 20% of the time we need the other stuff an EV isn't as strong at yet. Towing. Range. Size. I simply put this down to the simple reality that our home is at the beginning of the change from ICE vehicles. Not the end. But I'd rather try to be part of the solution than the problem.

Apart from our 2 Polestars, we still have my Defender and her T6. I also still have my hot hatch but I haven't driven it in a month. There's no point when the P2 leaves it for dead. When the Buzz comes to Oz we'll probably switch out the T6 but I can't see the Defender being replaced for a decade. To put in EV infrastructure where I tow our hybrid van is a loooooong way off. It's currently 3-400kms between fuel stations! Europe is compact. Oz isn't.

So I'm not jumping on the evangelist greenie bandwagon. I'm a realist. I want the smog and the noise gone but I still appreciate the roar of a V8. I'm happy with an 80% reduction in our house of the noise and particulates we push into the air. My electricity is 100% renewable and I have the solar and battery. Some of my motivation is green. Some is that because I work from home I'll have paid this off in three years after which it's more profit for me. Part of it is that recent events show that we're not as smart or well prepared as we all think we are. We didn't have blackouts this year like some did but it got close.

But there is simply no denying that most of the time the Polestar is just better, more convenient and cheaper to run. Driving past petrol stations is a joy. Those fuckers have been legally fixing prices for decades under the lie of the *fuel price cycle*. That's the one that peaks every Christmas and Easter holidays! Watching them evolve or go under is fine by me. And when the infrastructure is there I'll be more than happy to have a decent coffee or lunch while I use a public charger.

At first I had range anxiety (somewhat offset because I kept an ICE) but for mostly everyday it's not an issue, even with the decade behind (not kidding) EV infrastructure in Oz. On average I plug in at home twice a week for three hours in the middle of the night. I only charge to 70% now. If I have a big day I can get to 100% in 2 hours at home, while I'm asleep. Everyone goes on about waiting at chargers. That's only true if you're not in a house (a completely different issue but an important one). Because I charge at home I've spent more time filling the Defender than I have at EV public charging. And don't get me started about the AdBlue shortages here..... Hotels and Air B&B advertise if they have chargers so for short trips we get free charging while we're away. If I pay for it at home 400kms costs me AUD26. 800kms in the Defender is AUD220. We're a couple of hundred better off per car, per week.

Tesla recycles their car and home batteries into dense grid storage, where the increase in weight due to recycling isn't important. Polestar, Kia and Hyundai have recycling and sustainable programs in place or in development. Being green is part of the marketing. Same as the *vegan* leather. They need to improve. They will. It's in their interests to develop recycling policies.

If you're a single vehicle household, outside Europe or you tow or have a family of 7, or live in an apartment, then EV life is hard to work out. Otherwise, it's a no brainer. The arguments about dirty tyres, burning coal to produce electricity etc are all just excuses. If you want to you can work it out. An ICE car has tyres and fuel particulates. An EV doesn't have the fuel so it's already an improvement no matter how significant the tyre issue is. If your next car is a new car the BEV makes sense on so many levels. Not to mention I have a car with 480hP, Brembo 6 pot brakes and Ohlins race dampers. It's a weapon....

Gordon

You mention the fact that your grid power seems to be more reliable recently, yet you don't mention the important grid stability role that solutions like Tesla's big batteries have been contributing to New South Wales grid stability. It's also helping stem the price of electricity that has been creeping up over the last couple of decades. Near the end of this article are some details about grid improvements in your area (beyond the initial Hornsdale installation that helped prove the concept):

Tesla’s Hornsdale Power Reserve provides inertia to South Australia's grid (energy-storage.news)

I'm a realist too. My main interest in renewables, battery storage and electrified transportation is not so much "green" (I'll be gone by the time the largest impacts of global climate change impact the economy and human comfort and well-being) but it's simply my selfish desire for a better life while I'm here. I actually like breathing clean air while on the motorway, in the city and walking on sidewalks. Vehicle fumes make me feel worse and get out of breath easier while riding my bicycle on the road. That's the carbon monoxide emitted from tailpipes. It can also make people sick. Hundreds of thousands die every year due to vehicular exhaust. It causes cancer, emphysema, asthma, COPD, birth defects, immune issues and a host of other health problems. That's expensive too.

I was recently diagnosed with asthma which I thought was odd for an otherwise healthy, happy skier, MTB'er, hiker, non-smoker and cook of delicious food. How did that happen? Could it be because I live two miles away from a major oil refinery that produces a fine black ash that settles on cars and everything else? On summer nights when I open the bedroom window, I can smell a subtle smell that reminds me of blackness. Is it coke in particulate form? I suspect so, probably mixed in with a cocktail of other toxic compounds. We might not be able to curtail oil refining 100% instantly, but the sooner we head that direction, the better for everyone (except perhaps people whose wealth is derived from oil).

Is that what being "green" is all about? Because, for me, being "green" isn't about the trees, it's about people, good health and having fun! Of course, trees contribute to that in numerous fundamental ways.

 

[flash]

You mention the fact that your grid power seems to be more reliable recently, yet you don't mention the important grid stability role that solutions like Tesla's big batteries have been contributing to New South Wales grid stability. It's also helping stem the price of electricity that has been creeping up over the last couple of decades. Near the end of this article are some details about grid improvements in your area (beyond the initial Hornsdale installation that helped prove the concept):

Tesla’s Hornsdale Power Reserve provides inertia to South Australia's grid (energy-storage.news)

I'm a realist too. My main interest in renewables, battery storage and electrified transportation is not so much "green" (I'll be gone by the time the largest impacts of global climate change impact the economy and human comfort and well-being) but it's simply my selfish desire for a better life while I'm here. I actually like breathing clean air while on the motorway, in the city and walking on sidewalks. Vehicle fumes make me feel worse and get out of breath easier while riding my bicycle on the road. That's the carbon monoxide emitted from tailpipes. It can also make people sick. Hundreds of thousands die every year due to vehicular exhaust. It causes cancer, emphysema, asthma, COPD, birth defects, immune issues and a host of other health problems. That's expensive too.

I was recently diagnosed with asthma which I thought was odd for an otherwise healthy, happy skier, MTB'er, hiker, non-smoker and cook of delicious food. How did that happen? Could it be because I live two miles away from a major oil refinery that produces a fine black ash that settles on cars and everything else? On summer nights when I open the bedroom window, I can smell a subtle smell that reminds me of blackness. Is it coke in particulate form? I suspect so, probably mixed in with a cocktail of other toxic compounds. We might not be able to curtail oil refining 100% instantly, but the sooner we head that direction, the better for everyone (except perhaps people whose wealth is derived from oil).

Is that what being "green" is all about? Because, for me, being "green" isn't about the trees, it's about people, good health and having fun! Of course, trees contribute to that in numerous fundamental ways.

I essentially agree with you except for a couple of things. I am looking at what I leave behind. I have kids so there's a future I'm interested in. I hope to leave them with a good start to reigning in any further climate damage caused by humans.

Also I hope I didn't indicate I thought the grid was becoming more stable. That's simply not true. That piece is fluff. Less than three months ago the energy regulator had to take control of the entire grid on the eastern seaboard, using emergency powers, to ensure supply, for two weeks. Prices are through the roof. The Hornsdale battery is fantastic and other projects are coming on line but they're simply not enough in a country that had an anti renewable government agenda for a decade. We've just gotten rid of, probably, the worst Prime Minister in our history so we're playing catch up with pretty much the entire western world when it comes to a stable supply of clean energy. Oz is not in a position where we can congratulate ourselves for a job well done, 'cause we haven't, yet. The Tesla plant only happened because of a bet by Elon! It wasn't a government idea and yet they do like to take credit for it. We're still one of the biggest coal and gas users and exporters on the planet.

I was diagnosed with Asthma at 52. Likely cause is poor dental care. Linked to a newly developed severe reaction to NSAIDs (Asprin, Ibuprofen). Essentially an auto immune disease. Hasn't stopped me skiing or riding. But yes, it does make you think.

All I was really trying to say was I want to do my bit, so I am because I have the means. But not everybody can, yet. EV's are a part of that. But they're going to be out of reach for many, for a while, until infrastructure here is like Norway.

We walk very heavily upon this little blue rock of ours, mostly because we do like to breed like bacteria (there's just too many humans). And we treat our only home like a garbage dump. I can't change what others do but I can change what I do, to the best of my abilities.

Gordon

 

[MountainBoy]

I essentially agree with you except for a couple of things. I am looking at what I leave behind. I have kids so there's a future I'm interested in. I hope to leave them with a good start to reigning in any further climate damage caused by humans.

Also I hope I didn't indicate I thought the grid was becoming more stable. That's simply not true. That piece is fluff. Less than three months ago the energy regulator had to take control of the entire grid on the eastern seaboard, using emergency powers, to ensure supply, for two weeks. Prices are through the roof. The Hornsdale battery is fantastic and other projects are coming on line but they're simply not enough in a country that had an anti renewable government agenda for a decade. We've just gotten rid of, probably, the worst Prime Minister in our history so we're playing catch up with pretty much the entire western world when it comes to a stable supply of clean energy. Oz is not in a position where we can congratulate ourselves for a job well done, 'cause we haven't, yet. The Tesla plant only happened because of a bet by Elon! It wasn't a government idea and yet they do like to take credit for it. We're still one of the biggest coal and gas users and exporters on the planet.

I was diagnosed with Asthma at 52. Likely cause is poor dental care. Linked to a newly developed severe reaction to NSAIDs (Asprin, Ibuprofen). Essentially an auto immune disease. Hasn't stopped me skiing or riding. But yes, it does make you think.

All I was really trying to say was I want to do my bit, so I am because I have the means. But not everybody can, yet. EV's are a part of that. But they're going to be out of reach for many, for a while, until infrastructure here is like Norway.

We walk very heavily upon this little blue rock of ours, mostly because we do like to breed like bacteria (there's just too many humans). And we treat our only home like a garbage dump. I can't change what others do but I can change what I do, to the best of my abilities.

Gordon

The article you call "fluff" is jam packed with facts sourced from credible sources. It does not claim the job of fixing the failings of Australian power systems is completed by any means. In fact, it indicates the opposite:

“It is leading the innovation of inverter-based technologies – paving the way for more, much needed large-scale storage projects both in Australia and beyond.”

It makes sense that some of the first pilot projects designed to stabilize grid frequency with solid-state frequency generation are in the areas that most need it. That's how the bet that Elon won came about - wanting to fix a big grid reliability problem. And it helped tremendously - they just need more of them to continue to increase grid reliability and reduce dependence on fossil fuels.

But we are rather far off the topic of whether or not having an electric bike has changed your view on BEV's. In my case, two BEV's preceded the electric MTB and I consider them to have more advanced technology than my Bosch-based eMTB even though they were made 3-4 years before my eMTB. It takes time for the technology to trickle down from the automotive market to the eMTB market.