Has having an Ebb changed your view on having a battery car?

[Tooks]

How is the ID.3 going? Only doing about 8k miles a year so am thinking an electric car on lease might be the way forward. Might retain the current Galaxy for long trips and biking, may not bother.

I‘ve owned it for 6 months now, and approaching 11k miles.

From new and on the ‘Beta’ software, there were a few bugs and false errors thrown up which I’d been led to expect. Nothing that ever caused a breakdown though. Since getting the finished 2.1 software installed earlier this year though, it has been perfectly well behaved and hasn’t missed a beat.

As the weather is getting warmer now as well, range from a full charge (leaving a buffer) has gone from circa 190 miles in freezing temps/wind/rain, to more like 230 miles. That’s plenty for my needs, charging on the road is a thing of the past for regular commutes, but the rapid charging infrastructure is also growing quickly, so plenty of options for beyond range trips now.

Mrs Tooks got herself a Tesla Model 3 Long Range earlier this year as well, so the household is now all electric. Nice car the M3, seems to have a genuine 300 mile range as well, the acceleration is also laugh out loud quick!

I‘d recommend either car to be honest, unless you’re somebody who needs to tow a horse box in an emergency from lands end to John o groats or something...

 

[Tooks]

EV charger rage will be the new road rage ?

Especially if you find a hybrid plugged into the only hotel charge point! ???

To be fair, there are very few problems with EV charging that won’t be solved by more charging infrastructure, that hotel car park should be full of 7kW charge posts.

I‘ve stayed over night in a hotel where the only charge point was occupied, although it had finished charging, and the receptionist refused to try and contact the other guest to move it so somebody else could use it.

In the event, I just charged on a nearby rapid charger the next day for 30 mins whilst I had breakfast. Going EV does require a bit of forethought, but it’s not particularly onerous. I’ve covered the best part of 100k electric miles the last 5 years, I’ve not been stranded yet. Arrived home a bit later than planned a few times, yes, but that was with older smaller battery and slower charging cars.

 

[Tooks]

I don’t normally watch this blokes videos, but if I was in the market for an EV, this would be quite off putting.

Yes, I agree that owning an EV without home charging is a more painful experience, I don’t think I’d be so keen unless I was doing not much mileage each year.

People who don’t have a driveway etc still park their cars somewhere overnight, the challenge is to get charging infrastructure to those cars. There’s plenty of work ongoing in that regard, but if you’ve off road parking and a home charger, it’s really easy. I haven’t been to a petrol station for fuel in years, the car is always ready for me when I need it. We have two EVs now, still the one charger, there have been no fights over it, yet! ?

 

[Norange]

I've already got outdoor 240V, can you slow charge directly from that or does it need to be directly wired to the CU?

 

[Tooks]

I've already got outdoor 240V, can you slow charge directly from that or does it need to be directly wired to the CU?

If you’ve got a 240v outdoor socket, and it’s 13A and the supply wiring in good condition/properly rated then you can use a 10A slow charger that will be approx 2.2 kW per hour from it. You have to understand the limitations of that, to fully charge 58kWh ID.3 for instance from near empty would take 26 hours.

It’s rare you’d be doing that though, but if you were then a dedicated 7kW charger would be the better long term solution.

That said, if you plugged in every night on the slow charger from 2000-0600 for example, after losses you’d put back in approx 20kWhs which is enough to cover 60-80 miles in most EVs, which might be more than enough for a commute.

Some cars come with the slow chargers, some you have to option it, but they all come with a 32A Type 2 cable for use at public 7kW charge points or your home unit.

Public rapid chargers have their own cables and connectors due to the Amps/currents involved.

 

[EebStrider]

I stayed in a hotel the night before last which had a Polar charging station. Pulled up and tried to plug in but I needed the BP pulse app to activate the charge. Checked into the hotel and downloaded the app using their wifi. Added my credit card details, topped up the app, went back outside to charge the car and a Porsche Taycan had pulled up next to me and had used the cable I needed (there were three types), so I couldn’t plug in and charge

As my car is a hybrid I wasn’t too bothered as I’d filled up with fuel anyway, but it did make me realise how annoyed I would have been if I was in a full EV and needed that overnight charge to get home the next day. EV charger rage will be the new road rage ?

The infrastructure just isn’t there yet. I’ve just got a new petrol car a couple of weeks ago, and owning my own business an EV would make so much more financial sense, but I can’t be doing with all the potential inconvenience.

There are some very interesting models coming out now by the big players (the BMW i4 M50 looks fantastic), so I’ll stick with petrol for the time being, and watch from the sidelines.

 

[Tonybro]

Just done similar - looked, considered, decided infrastructure not ready so ordered another 5 series coming in September hopefully. Even the hybrid 5 didn't make sense. Lost 40% fuel tank and added just short of 300Kg in weight. Madness.

 

[EebStrider]

Just done similar - looked, considered, decided infrastructure not ready so ordered another 5 series coming in September hopefully. Even the hybrid 5 didn't make sense. Lost 40% fuel tank and added just short of 300Kg in weight. Madness.

I had to go to the service department at my BMW dealer yesterday to pick some bits up, and had the same conversation with the service manager. He agreed that maybe in a few years time he’d consider one, but won’t be making the move anytime soon.

 

[Major Stare]

Purchased a Kia Soul EV for my wife. She does approx 4-5K miles a year. We charge at home for 5p/kWh, RFL is NIL, she is saving £25-£30/month on diesel from her last car. First service was £68.00?, this year's service was just £89.

For me, an electric company car would be ideal, unfortunately non of them are suitable.

 

[Norange]

Purchased a Kia Soul EV for my wife. She does approx 4-5K miles a year. We charge at home for 5p/kWh, RFL is NIL, she is saving £25-£30/month on diesel from her last car. First service was £68.00?, this year's service was just £89.

For me, an electric company car would be ideal, unfortunately non of them are suitable.

Assume you have a special rate with your supplier for that? Need to sort that out I think. I'll be saving about £150 a month on petrol Drove a Leaf yesterday and really liked it. I have decided that leasing isn't for me and would rather take a loan than PCP. So I've looked at 2-3 year old cars and the Leaf doesn't seem to have too much competition there.

 

[Norange]

I had to go to the service department at my BMW dealer yesterday to pick some bits up, and had the same conversation with the service manager. He agreed that maybe in a few years time he’d consider one, but won’t be making the move anytime soon.

There's definitely some use cases where electric doesn't make sense. My sister regularly drives from Melbourne to Sydney, for example. I'll be keeping access to the old car for the occasional long run if needed. Leaf range is about 150 miles real, long range one is about 240 I think. When I come to change in 4 years time I reckon range will be further extended and the infrastructure will make sense. After all, If I'm driving more than 300 miles you'd be wanting a stop anyway.

 

[Major Stare]

Assume you have a special rate with your supplier for that? Need to sort that out I think. I'll be saving about £150 a month on petrol Drove a Leaf yesterday and really liked it. I have decided that leasing isn't for me and would rather take a loan than PCP. So I've looked at 2-3 year old cars and the Leaf doesn't seem to have too much competition there.

Yes, Octopus Go tariff. It is for electric cars and ideally charging over night. The Soul is 2yrs old (5yrs left on the warranty) and purchased outright for £14k. We preferred it over the Leaf, especially with the long warranty.

 

[Tubby G]

Purchased a Kia Soul EV for my wife. She does approx 4-5K miles a year. We charge at home for 5p/kWh, RFL is NIL, she is saving £25-£30/month on diesel from her last car. First service was £68.00?, this year's service was just £89.

For me, an electric company car would be ideal, unfortunately non of them are suitable.

I spent a good couple of months looking for a company EV and obtaining prices from our lease company. Narrowed my choice down to the Volvo XC40 Recharge or the Polestar 2, but at the time of ordering they were both new to the market cars and therefore no real residual values were obtainable, so the lease company hiked the monthly lease cost up instead to cover themselves. I went for another hybrid, simply to save on tax, but my colleague opted for the Kia E-Nero which was within budget and really enjoys it. Also saves him a fair amount on tax and personal mileage (pays next to nothing)

 

[Quinterly]

I have multiple issues with the idea that battery EVs are more environmentally friendly than ICE based cars. My perspective is that climate change is a crisis that needs addressing, but environmental impact is measured across multiple factors including habitat damage (from both raw materials mining/production and energy development) as well as other considerations like battery disposal, etc.

Using the US as an example, 67% of electricity in the US is generated by burning fossil fuels (coal/natural gas). If you massively electrify passenger vehicles, you create significantly more GHG emissions, especially as secondary power is almost exclusively fossil fuel based. There have been no peer reviewed academic studies weighing the impact of GHG emissions from EV charging demand versus hybrid or ICE engines. The one academic paper I did see suggested that the balance weighed against massive EV adoption, but it was more hypothetical and not peer reviewed.

I happen to live in a jurisdiction with almost completely hydro electric generation. But, at what cost? The GHGs being emitted to build the new Site C dam? The habitat destruction that will have massive environmental impacts for decades? Those pushing the EV agenda engage in zealotry to discount the impacts and claim climate change is a more important environmental goal. While I notionally agree with the latter, the reality is (if we have learned nothing else) that the law of unintended consequences applies exponentially in terms of the environment.

I see more potential in fuel cells if we are able to solve the challenges of producing hydrogen with more modest energy requirements. The research is showing that it is possible, but it's not clear that translates to practical application yet. That certainly holds far more potential to address GHG emissions from shipping, aviation, and trucking.

ICE has it's own issues. I have nothing against someone buying an EV because they like the vehicle. Given what Porsche has done with the Taycan, can't wait to see an electrified Macan as a possible next vehicle for us. Just don't tell me you're saving the environment ... you're not. Enjoy your Elon Musk Kool-Aid.

 

[Norange]

Yes, Octopus Go tariff. It is for electric cars and ideally charging over night. The Soul is 2yrs old (5yrs left on the warranty) and purchased outright for £14k. We preferred it over the Leaf, especially with the long warranty.

Cheers, I'll be able to switch tariff in December so will look at that. Plus badger work for some free charging points on site

 

[Major Stare]

Cheers, I'll be able to switch tariff in December so will look at that. Plus badger work for some free charging points on site

If you can plug in at work for free and it covers your daily journey, it won't cost you anything to commute. Weekly shop for us is Aldi, next door is a Sainsbury's with some free 7kW chargers, so we can go shopping and the whole trip costs us Zero ?

 

[Tooks]

ICE has it's own issues. I have nothing against someone buying an EV because they like the vehicle. Given what Porsche has done with the Taycan, can't wait to see an electrified Macan as a possible next vehicle for us. Just don't tell me you're saving the environment ... you're not. Enjoy your Elon Musk Kool-Aid.

I don’t think I’ve ever made the link between driving an EV and saving the environment, and I’ve certainly never told you or anybody else that! ?

The elephant in the room is that there’s too many of us on the planet, and we in the west are consuming way more than our fair share of resources living the way we do.

Governments are attracted to EVs as they do address local air quality issues, but as I said many posts ago they’re only as ‘green’ as the grid they’re connected to.

Oil extraction and road fuel refining use colossal amounts of electricity and raw materials too, the fact is that the only ‘green’ motoring is no motoring at all. There are ways to do ‘better’ than what we’re doing now though, and that will happen over time.

Meantime, if your existing car is worn out and your use will fit with it, have a look at the new crop of EVs, they’re getting better and more useable all the time. That’s all my ‘message’ is, I don’t judge people generally, and certainly not by the car they drive! ??

 

[Quinterly]

I don’t think I’ve ever made the link between driving an EV and saving the environment, and I’ve certainly never told you or anybody else that! ?

Wasn't singling anyone out. Just dealing with the inevitability that all discussions about EVs eventually result in an Elon Musk acolyte thumping their chest about what they are doing for the planet.

Meantime, if your existing car is worn out and your use will fit with it, have a look at the new crop of EVs, they’re getting better and more useable all the time. That’s all my ‘message’ is, I don’t judge people generally, and certainly not by the car they drive! ??

I think I said pretty much the same thing. Although I am hard pressed to imagine that most EVs would match a great ICE vehicle for driving dynamics and enjoyment, everyone's use case (and the degree to which driving is an experience for them) is different.

 

[Pigin]

I like the way this thread has taken in the views of folks in relation to the so called green aspect.

As the OP I would like to comment that in the UK the Government actively encouraged the take up of diesel vehicles a good few years ago and then the cost of diesel fuel rose to be more expensive than petrol. Now diesel is the devils spawn despite new Diesel engines being Euro6 compliant in the main.

Then we can consider how green it is just getting rid of a vehicle that is still fit for purpose. All that mining and energy that’s gone into it just to replace it with something else that has to be mined and manufactured.

Im not convinced that battery vehicles will be the future but more of an interim. As such I hope I can wait it out a little longer until the technology has improved.

We run two cars, a diesel and a petrol and I won’t be changing them any time soon, preferring to run them a lot longer than I normally would. I consider that being green ish compared to my normal purchasing practices.

Moving from a 6a to 2a charger on the eeb I now understand just how frustrating the recharging aspect of EV’s must be.

Thanks for your views and comments, all very interesting.

 

[Gyre]

Love my eMTB, but no change at all. Even basic ICE cars are getting absurdly expensive, nevermind the additional cost/limitations inherent with EVs and getting high speed charging lines installed.

 

[Norange]

Wasn't singling anyone out. Just dealing with the inevitability that all discussions about EVs eventually result in an Elon Musk acolyte thumping their chest about what they are doing for the planet.

We haven't seen that on here though, have we? It does seem to be one of those polarising things though, where people either harp on about it (like me, as I'm thinking of getting one!) or seem really keen to point out all the reasons it doesn't work for them.

Although I am hard pressed to imagine that most EVs would match a great ICE vehicle for driving dynamics and enjoyment, everyone's use case (and the degree to which driving is an experience for them) is different.

Absolutely genuine question, why do you think that? Am definitely no car expert, what would mean that electric cars would be less fun to drive? Extra weight? Weight distribution? No engine roar? Maybe just that the niche for a super fun affordable electric car isn't big enough yet? I live in a pretty nice area to drive around in, but own a Galaxy. The Leaf I've just driven was definitely more fun than that

 

[Norange]

Moving from a 6a to 2a charger on the eeb I now understand just how frustrating the recharging aspect of EV’s must be.

See it's absolutely the opposite for me. 15 minute drive from my house to a petrol station. And while I can fill up near work or other places I visit regularly, it's always an inconvenience as I'd rather be elsewhere. Granted, will probably be a journey once every month or two where I'd need a public charger. Not expecting that to be massively awkward but there's likely to be a bit of compromise.

 

[Quinterly]

We haven't seen that on here though, have we? It does seem to be one of those polarising things though, where people either harp on about it (like me, as I'm thinking of getting one!) or seem really keen to point out all the reasons it doesn't work for them.

Fair enough ...

Absolutely genuine question, why do you think that? Am definitely no car expert, what would mean that electric cars would be less fun to drive? Extra weight? Weight distribution? No engine roar? Maybe just that the niche for a super fun affordable electric car isn't big enough yet? I live in a pretty nice area to drive around in, but own a Galaxy. The Leaf I've just driven was definitely more fun than that

Exhaust note is one issue, but that's not what I was driving at (pun intended). As someone who has driven mostly manual cars, there is no substitute for the degree of control and improved handling that comes from rowing your own gears. Although my current vehicle is not a manual, it is a dual clutch and I manually shift it. Downshifting coming into a corner and powering up at the apex is simply not replicable in an EV with a single gear. I get why they only need a single gear as a transportation utility ... but for driving dynamics and enjoyment, I need those gears. Further, to actually match the actual performance of my RS3, I would had to spend $40K more on an EV.

 

[Tooks]

Exhaust note is one issue…

I must admit that my favourite engine note is an inline 5, the RS3 takes me right back to when I was a kid in my Dad’s Audi S2. ??

 

[Roy68]

Still waiting for my Dengfu China ebike frame to arrive for my first ebike build. But picked up a used BMW i3 last weekend, couldn't quite stretch to a Tesla even though I made a packet for my pension on the stock. But the i3 is still fast enough and so much fun to drive, it's like a go kart, I love it! Used values are so cheap now, range isn't great which puts a ot of people off, I'm getting around 135 miles at the moment in UK summer, but as a second car for 98% of my daily journeys it's awesome. BMW did a great job protecting the battery, liquid cooled for long life, so, unlike a Nissan Leaf there's no need to worry about battery degradation if you're buying used. Aluminium chassis with carbon fibre passenger cell and plastic body panels, it's super light for an electric car.. Having done a 200 mile journey last weekend, charger availability in UK is much better than I expected, takes around 30 min for 80% charge on 50KWh fast charger.

 

[Quinterly]

I must admit that my favourite engine note is an inline 5, the RS3 takes me right back to when I was a kid in my Dad’s Audi S2. ??

Hard to imagine the day I'll part with that car. I can see us replacing my wife's Q3 with something electrified at some point, but the RS3 is staying!

 

[EebStrider]

We haven't seen that on here though, have we? It does seem to be one of those polarising things though, where people either harp on about it (like me, as I'm thinking of getting one!) or seem really keen to point out all the reasons it doesn't work for them.



Absolutely genuine question, why do you think that? Am definitely no car expert, what would mean that electric cars would be less fun to drive? Extra weight? Weight distribution? No engine roar? Maybe just that the niche for a super fun affordable electric car isn't big enough yet? I live in a pretty nice area to drive around in, but own a Galaxy. The Leaf I've just driven was definitely more fun than that

Anything is more fun than a Galaxy, in fairness! ?

 

[Norange]

Anything is more fun than a Galaxy, in fairness! ?

It's quite a lot of fun when you just roll the bike in the back

 

[EebStrider]

It's quite a lot of fun when you just roll the bike in the back

Yeah, the bloke that services my bike has one, so I appreciate how easy it is to get the bike in!

 

[Norange]

Ended up driving a BMW i3, then buying an i3S. Not bothering to get a home charger yet as topping up after a commute takes about 3 hrs on a 13A socket. Really enjoying it so far, though I'm missing the sound system of the Galaxy which was about £1500 of custom install