Levo Gen 2 Gear shifting problems.... I've run out of ideas!

[steve_sordy]

Odd shifting problems that I have had that proved unsolvable by the usual adjustments were caused by one of the following:

Misaligned mech (bent mech hanger, bent mech arm, main bolt loose on mech or hanger).
Axle not clamped properly, or even loose!!
Cable problems (mucky, damaged). The damage could be an impact to the outer cable compressing the inner. Twice I caused problems by simply stepping on the inner wire as it was trailing about the place during fitting.
Mucky mech.

The latter one needs some explanation. The mech looked clean, but where the mech body rests against itself under spring pressure a layer of compressed vegetation, oil and other muck had built up. It was black and didn't show up on a black mech. It was resistant to the usual cleaning because of where it was. The old guy at the LBS advised me to remove the mech and clean it in a wash basin with a solvent such as Hopes Sh1t Shifter. Open it up and really scrub at it, no need to dismantle it, I used a toothbrush. Use hot water as it helps to remove the deposit and also for the mech to dry. Then rinse, dry and re-lube. It worked. The old guy said that when he was stuck he usually found that giving the mech a really good clean solved many problems. Not all, but enough.

 

[DaveNewing]

The amount of money you’ve spent you could of took it to your LBS ..

I did take it to my local bike shop for the software upgrade and they looked into the gear issue at the same time. Their suggestion was worn jockey wheels, which is why I put new ones on

 

[DaveNewing]

Odd shifting problems that I have had that proved unsolvable by the usual adjustments were caused by one of the following:

Misaligned mech (bent mech hanger, bent mech arm, main bolt loose on mech or hanger).
Axle not clamped properly, or even loose!!
Cable problems (mucky, damaged). The damage could be an impact to the outer cable compressing the inner. Twice I caused problems by simply stepping on the inner wire as it was trailing about the place during fitting.
Mucky mech.

The latter one needs some explanation. The mech looked clean, but where the mech body rests against itself under spring pressure a layer of compressed vegetation, oil and other muck had built up. It was black and didn't show up on a black mech. It was resistant to the usual cleaning because of where it was. The old guy at the LBS advised me to remove the mech and clean it in a wash basin with a solvent such as Hopes Sh1t Shifter. Open it up and really scrub at it, no need to dismantle it, I used a toothbrush. Use hot water as it helps to remove the deposit and also for the mech to dry. Then rinse, dry and re-lube. It worked. The old guy said that when he was stuck he usually found that giving the mech a really good clean solved many problems. Not all, but enough.

Thanks, I'll try giving it a good clean

 

[steve_sordy]

I did take it to my local bike shop for the software upgrade and they looked into the gear issue at the same time. Their suggestion was worn jockey wheels, which is why I put new ones on

I never bothered with jockey wheels until I spotted these ninja throwing stars masquerading as jockey wheels:

Old ones on the left, replacement on the right (just in case).

I persuaded myself that there was a marginal benefit from slightly crisper shifting. But I suspect I may have been kidding myself. I posted this on another Forum and many other riders were similarly surprised to see how bad their jockey wheels had become, many were like mine. One guy posted his and they were almost smooth! He said that he hadn't noticed any shifting problems. No idea what speed he was running.

 

[Akiwi]

I had similar issues on my bike.
Turned out that my axel wasn't tight enough which trashed my hanger.
Then My wife had the same problem.
Eventually I bought the Park tool allignment tool that Steve linked earlier. Since I learnt how to use that and got everything alligned properly the gears have been changing without any problems.
Was a good investment.

 

[Gyre]

I have tried adjusting high/low screws (with gear cable disconnected), but the derailleur doesn't seem to move far enough to the smallest cog on the cassette. I can gently push the hanger into the correct place, but it appears the spring in the derailleur isn't strong enough to pull it all the way.
Any ideas on fixing this ongoing issue?

If you've backed off on the limiting screws and the spring won't take you to the two smallest (i.e. lowest number of teeth) cogs, the derailleur mech itself must be malfunctioning. Alignment isn't likely to be the main culprit: If it was bad enough to make you lose two gears on an 11 speed, it's likely to be crooked enough to just eyeball the misalignment and it would have problems across the rest of the cassette range.

 

[Mikerb]

I never bothered with jockey wheels until I spotted these ninja throwing stars masquerading as jockey wheels:
View attachment 52054

Old ones on the left, replacement on the right (just in case).

I persuaded myself that there was a marginal benefit from slightly crisper shifting. But I suspect I may have been kidding myself. I posted this on another Forum and many other riders were similarly surprised to see how bad their jockey wheels had become, may were like mine. One guy posted his and they were almost smooth! He said that he hadn't noticed any shifting problems. No idea what speed he was running.

Not sure that wear on the teeth of jockey wheels is such a big issue. After all they are only there to guide the chain through the mech. Extensive wear on the top jockey would however increase the B tension gap which would potentially cause some down shift slowness.
What does make a difference is when the jockey wheels develop sideways play due to worn bearings. More especially in the top jockey wheel, that sideways play can reduce the distance the chain moves from one cog to another in response to gear changes.
I changed my jockey wheels for Hope when the originals developed play. Gear change was much slicker as a result.

 

[Dirk74]

With SRAM derailleurs, the upper pulley of the shift cable is only made of plastic with a slide bearing. Here, pollution and wear and tear have the earliest effect on the gears with the smallest pinions (e.g. 11 teeth) because the rear derailleur has the least amount of tension here.
BikeYoke made a tuning part for that, called Shifty

 

[Utah Rider]

I didn't see anyone mention anything about the overall number of chain links. It sounds like the op has checked everything except that. I have the three Levos. If the chain is too long it causes the symptoms described. Take out a couple of links, readjust the derailleur tension and welcome to happy shifting.

 

[DaveNewing]

I've tried all the cleaning advice and set up checks with no luck so far. I've ordered a new NX rear derailleur, so I hope this fixes the problem.

 

[daju]

My bike shop didn't have the GX in stock initially so lent me a NX till it came in.
The GX looks a bit nicer and had more metal on it and anodised screws etc, where the NX used plastic in some places.
But they performed almost identically.

You've got a superior LBS, friend

 

[jxj]

Dave -
I've had similar problems over the years on 10 and 11sp MTB and eMTB. For me the most common problems to remedy have been:
1. Bent rear mech hanger. Keep a spare in the box and swap. If the issues persist, keep the old one as a spare if it doesn't fix it as you will bend one someday. Toss the bent one or if you have the skills bend it back.
2. For smallest cogs, cable might be too tight, not going fully lax at the smallest cog.
3. Clearance screw on rear mech to set distance to cassette. See mfgr instructions, usually about 2.5mm IIRC
4. Worn chain, cassette or rear mech components. Basically I toss the entire set of chainring, cassette and chain every season or about 2k miles for me.

I run two chains per season in rotation and cleaning before reinstalling. Once the season (year) is over I toss the two chains, cassette, and chainring and go all new. I usually wreck out and need a new hanger and rear mech about every two years so those get changed out too.

 

[Shjay]

There is an obsession with mech hanger alignment tools on bike forums, yes they are useful & your mech hanger can be bent, usually due to an impact 9/10 it’s the person setting up the gears is not as good at it as they think they are!!!

 

[Akiwi]

There is an obsession with mech hanger alignment tools on bike forums, yes they are useful & your mech hanger can be bent, usually due to an impact 9/10 it’s the person setting up the gears is not as good at it as they think they are!!!

I spent ages trying to get my wifes gears to work. then I got a bike mechanic to have a look at it, and he couldn't get it to work just by adjusting or hand bending the gears (we were not in a shop). After I got the correct tool and alligned everything pergectly the gears all changed perfectly. So there is a reason the allignment tool gets talked about. I wouldn't rate it at 9/10 more 7/10 it is the incompetance ratio.

 

[Funkeydunk]

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. So what have you not changed, it looks like you’ve changed the following:
chain
cassette
free hub body
front chain ring
hanger
cable (all of it or just the inner cable)

then only thing left is the mech, or your frame is bent. If you fit a new mech and align is correctly (b screw etc). If this is t it and it’s still doing it, then I’d look at the back wheel. I would also make it a vendetta, and never stop till I bought a new bike.
gook luck my friend.

 

[DaveNewing]

My new rear mech arrived today so I'll be fitting it this weekend. Hopefully that solves the problem.

 

[Konanige]

This isn't an ebike issue its been going for years, its your spring! According to Sram and Shimano all cyclists have weak thumbs, so they don't use too strong a return spring or it makes the shift feel too hard. Make sure you leave it on the smallest cog when not using it this will prolong the life of the spring. Also as the spring needs to compress right down so all the windings are touching the slightest fit of dirt in there will cause issues.

 

[Paul Mac]

This isn't an ebike issue its been going for years, its your spring! According to Sram and Shimano all cyclists have weak thumbs, so they don't use too strong a return spring or it makes the shift feel too hard. Make sure you leave it on the smallest cog when not using it this will prolong the life of the spring. Also as the spring needs to compress right down so all the windings are touching the slightest fit of dirt in there will cause issues.

I agree I think the spring is the problem.
When mine was playing up I tried to buy just a new spring for the mech, couldn't find one anywhere.
Does anyone know if they are available for sale?

 

[Levo Laland]

I’m having exactly the same issues. I’ve managed to improve things slightly by adjusting the B screw tension.

 

[Salespunk]

My gut is that a new RD is going to fix the issue.

To address some of the other ideas, a bent hangar wouldn't stop it from shifting to the bottom two cogs without issues everywhere else on the cassette. That being said, EVERY new bike I have looked at has an alignment issue out of the box. Straightening the hangar dramatically improves shift performance.

B tension is critical on 11/12 spd setups. A good rule of thumb is to get the upper pulley as close to the cassette without causing it to crash the cassette in the two largest cogs. Have the B tension too tight typically results in the bike not shifting well when going down the cassette.

 

[DaveNewing]

My new rear mech arrived today so I'll be fitting it this weekend. Hopefully that solves the problem.

Fitted the new rear mech today and every gear shifts perfectly. Been for a quick 15 mile ride and every gear change is smooth.

 

[Paul Mac]

Fitted the new rear mech today and every gear shifts perfectly. Been for a quick 15 mile ride and every gear change is smooth.

It's got to be the spring weakens.
Probably a good idea to leave the bike in a small cog when not being used so the spring isn't stretched.

 

[steve_sordy]

Ref post #13, here it is. £24 on eBay

MTB Bike Bicycle Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge Measurement Tool Repair V4T6 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MTB Bike Bicycle Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge Measurement Tool Repair V4T6 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

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No idea how long it will last, but if you don't use them very often (and most people won't) that wo't matter. It is a far better looking piece of kit than the ParkTool one and less than half the price.

 

[Akiwi]

Ref post #13, here it is. £24 on eBay

MTB Bike Bicycle Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge Measurement Tool Repair V4T6 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MTB Bike Bicycle Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge Measurement Tool Repair V4T6 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

No idea how long it will last, but if you don't use them very often (and most people won't) that wo't matter. It is a far better looking piece of kit than the ParkTool one and less than half the price.

I Agree. It is beautifull!. I didn't see that one on the market when I got the Parktool one. and the proce is much friendlier.