Levo Gen 2 Gear shifting problems.... I've run out of ideas!

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
8,936
9,281
Lincolnshire, UK
Odd shifting problems that I have had that proved unsolvable by the usual adjustments were caused by one of the following:

Misaligned mech (bent mech hanger, bent mech arm, main bolt loose on mech or hanger).
Axle not clamped properly, or even loose!! :giggle:
Cable problems (mucky, damaged). The damage could be an impact to the outer cable compressing the inner. Twice I caused problems by simply stepping on the inner wire as it was trailing about the place during fitting.
Mucky mech.

The latter one needs some explanation. The mech looked clean, but where the mech body rests against itself under spring pressure a layer of compressed vegetation, oil and other muck had built up. It was black and didn't show up on a black mech. It was resistant to the usual cleaning because of where it was. The old guy at the LBS advised me to remove the mech and clean it in a wash basin with a solvent such as Hopes Sh1t Shifter. Open it up and really scrub at it, no need to dismantle it, I used a toothbrush. Use hot water as it helps to remove the deposit and also for the mech to dry. Then rinse, dry and re-lube. It worked. The old guy said that when he was stuck he usually found that giving the mech a really good clean solved many problems. Not all, but enough.
 

DaveNewing

Member
Feb 3, 2020
87
20
UK
The amount of money you’ve spent you could of took it to your LBS ..
I did take it to my local bike shop for the software upgrade and they looked into the gear issue at the same time. Their suggestion was worn jockey wheels, which is why I put new ones on
 

DaveNewing

Member
Feb 3, 2020
87
20
UK
Odd shifting problems that I have had that proved unsolvable by the usual adjustments were caused by one of the following:

Misaligned mech (bent mech hanger, bent mech arm, main bolt loose on mech or hanger).
Axle not clamped properly, or even loose!! :giggle:
Cable problems (mucky, damaged). The damage could be an impact to the outer cable compressing the inner. Twice I caused problems by simply stepping on the inner wire as it was trailing about the place during fitting.
Mucky mech.

The latter one needs some explanation. The mech looked clean, but where the mech body rests against itself under spring pressure a layer of compressed vegetation, oil and other muck had built up. It was black and didn't show up on a black mech. It was resistant to the usual cleaning because of where it was. The old guy at the LBS advised me to remove the mech and clean it in a wash basin with a solvent such as Hopes Sh1t Shifter. Open it up and really scrub at it, no need to dismantle it, I used a toothbrush. Use hot water as it helps to remove the deposit and also for the mech to dry. Then rinse, dry and re-lube. It worked. The old guy said that when he was stuck he usually found that giving the mech a really good clean solved many problems. Not all, but enough.
Thanks, I'll try giving it a good clean
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
8,936
9,281
Lincolnshire, UK
I did take it to my local bike shop for the software upgrade and they looked into the gear issue at the same time. Their suggestion was worn jockey wheels, which is why I put new ones on
I never bothered with jockey wheels until I spotted these ninja throwing stars masquerading as jockey wheels:
Jockey wheels.JPG


Old ones on the left, replacement on the right (just in case).

I persuaded myself that there was a marginal benefit from slightly crisper shifting. But I suspect I may have been kidding myself. I posted this on another Forum and many other riders were similarly surprised to see how bad their jockey wheels had become, many were like mine. One guy posted his and they were almost smooth! He said that he hadn't noticed any shifting problems. No idea what speed he was running.
 
Last edited:

Akiwi

🐸 Kermit Elite 🐸
Feb 6, 2019
986
1,292
Olching, Germany
I had similar issues on my bike.
Turned out that my axel wasn't tight enough which trashed my hanger.
Then My wife had the same problem.
Eventually I bought the Park tool allignment tool that Steve linked earlier. Since I learnt how to use that and got everything alligned properly the gears have been changing without any problems.
Was a good investment.
 

Gyre

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2021
630
422
Pasadena, CA
I have tried adjusting high/low screws (with gear cable disconnected), but the derailleur doesn't seem to move far enough to the smallest cog on the cassette. I can gently push the hanger into the correct place, but it appears the spring in the derailleur isn't strong enough to pull it all the way.
Any ideas on fixing this ongoing issue?

If you've backed off on the limiting screws and the spring won't take you to the two smallest (i.e. lowest number of teeth) cogs, the derailleur mech itself must be malfunctioning. Alignment isn't likely to be the main culprit: If it was bad enough to make you lose two gears on an 11 speed, it's likely to be crooked enough to just eyeball the misalignment and it would have problems across the rest of the cassette range.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,535
5,015
Weymouth
I never bothered with jockey wheels until I spotted these ninja throwing stars masquerading as jockey wheels:
View attachment 52054

Old ones on the left, replacement on the right (just in case).

I persuaded myself that there was a marginal benefit from slightly crisper shifting. But I suspect I may have been kidding myself. I posted this on another Forum and many other riders were similarly surprised to see how bad their jockey wheels had become, may were like mine. One guy posted his and they were almost smooth! He said that he hadn't noticed any shifting problems. No idea what speed he was running.
Not sure that wear on the teeth of jockey wheels is such a big issue. After all they are only there to guide the chain through the mech. Extensive wear on the top jockey would however increase the B tension gap which would potentially cause some down shift slowness.
What does make a difference is when the jockey wheels develop sideways play due to worn bearings. More especially in the top jockey wheel, that sideways play can reduce the distance the chain moves from one cog to another in response to gear changes.
I changed my jockey wheels for Hope when the originals developed play. Gear change was much slicker as a result.
 

Dirk74

Active member
Jun 6, 2020
99
55
Germany
With SRAM derailleurs, the upper pulley of the shift cable is only made of plastic with a slide bearing. Here, pollution and wear and tear have the earliest effect on the gears with the smallest pinions (e.g. 11 teeth) because the rear derailleur has the least amount of tension here.
BikeYoke made a tuning part for that, called Shifty
 

Utah Rider

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2019
155
197
Utah
I didn't see anyone mention anything about the overall number of chain links. It sounds like the op has checked everything except that. I have the three Levos. If the chain is too long it causes the symptoms described. Take out a couple of links, readjust the derailleur tension and welcome to happy shifting.
 

DaveNewing

Member
Feb 3, 2020
87
20
UK
I've tried all the cleaning advice and set up checks with no luck so far. I've ordered a new NX rear derailleur, so I hope this fixes the problem.
 

jxj

Member
Jun 28, 2018
83
68
Sierra California
Dave -
I've had similar problems over the years on 10 and 11sp MTB and eMTB. For me the most common problems to remedy have been:
1. Bent rear mech hanger. Keep a spare in the box and swap. If the issues persist, keep the old one as a spare if it doesn't fix it as you will bend one someday. Toss the bent one or if you have the skills bend it back.
2. For smallest cogs, cable might be too tight, not going fully lax at the smallest cog.
3. Clearance screw on rear mech to set distance to cassette. See mfgr instructions, usually about 2.5mm IIRC
4. Worn chain, cassette or rear mech components. Basically I toss the entire set of chainring, cassette and chain every season or about 2k miles for me.

I run two chains per season in rotation and cleaning before reinstalling. Once the season (year) is over I toss the two chains, cassette, and chainring and go all new. I usually wreck out and need a new hanger and rear mech about every two years so those get changed out too.
 

Shjay

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2019
835
491
Kent
There is an obsession with mech hanger alignment tools on bike forums, yes they are useful & your mech hanger can be bent, usually due to an impact 9/10 it’s the person setting up the gears is not as good at it as they think they are!!!
 

Akiwi

🐸 Kermit Elite 🐸
Feb 6, 2019
986
1,292
Olching, Germany
There is an obsession with mech hanger alignment tools on bike forums, yes they are useful & your mech hanger can be bent, usually due to an impact 9/10 it’s the person setting up the gears is not as good at it as they think they are!!!
I spent ages trying to get my wifes gears to work. then I got a bike mechanic to have a look at it, and he couldn't get it to work just by adjusting or hand bending the gears (we were not in a shop). After I got the correct tool and alligned everything pergectly the gears all changed perfectly. So there is a reason the allignment tool gets talked about. I wouldn't rate it at 9/10 more 7/10 it is the incompetance ratio.
 

Funkeydunk

Well-known member
Subscriber
May 28, 2019
389
297
Uk
Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. So what have you not changed, it looks like you’ve changed the following:
chain
cassette
free hub body
front chain ring
hanger
cable (all of it or just the inner cable)

then only thing left is the mech, or your frame is bent. If you fit a new mech and align is correctly (b screw etc). If this is t it and it’s still doing it, then I’d look at the back wheel. I would also make it a vendetta, and never stop till I bought a new bike.
gook luck my friend.
 

DaveNewing

Member
Feb 3, 2020
87
20
UK
My new rear mech arrived today so I'll be fitting it this weekend. Hopefully that solves the problem.
 

Konanige

Active member
Feb 29, 2020
422
336
Mendips
This isn't an ebike issue its been going for years, its your spring! According to Sram and Shimano all cyclists have weak thumbs, so they don't use too strong a return spring or it makes the shift feel too hard. Make sure you leave it on the smallest cog when not using it this will prolong the life of the spring. Also as the spring needs to compress right down so all the windings are touching the slightest fit of dirt in there will cause issues.
 

Paul Mac

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Patreon
Subscriber
Jul 9, 2018
997
1,046
Uk
This isn't an ebike issue its been going for years, its your spring! According to Sram and Shimano all cyclists have weak thumbs, so they don't use too strong a return spring or it makes the shift feel too hard. Make sure you leave it on the smallest cog when not using it this will prolong the life of the spring. Also as the spring needs to compress right down so all the windings are touching the slightest fit of dirt in there will cause issues.
I agree I think the spring is the problem.
When mine was playing up I tried to buy just a new spring for the mech, couldn't find one anywhere.
Does anyone know if they are available for sale?
 

Salespunk

Active member
Jul 27, 2020
107
144
Encinitas, CA
My gut is that a new RD is going to fix the issue.

To address some of the other ideas, a bent hangar wouldn't stop it from shifting to the bottom two cogs without issues everywhere else on the cassette. That being said, EVERY new bike I have looked at has an alignment issue out of the box. Straightening the hangar dramatically improves shift performance.

B tension is critical on 11/12 spd setups. A good rule of thumb is to get the upper pulley as close to the cassette without causing it to crash the cassette in the two largest cogs. Have the B tension too tight typically results in the bike not shifting well when going down the cassette.
 

Paul Mac

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Patreon
Subscriber
Jul 9, 2018
997
1,046
Uk
Fitted the new rear mech today and every gear shifts perfectly. Been for a quick 15 mile ride and every gear change is smooth.
It's got to be the spring weakens.
Probably a good idea to leave the bike in a small cog when not being used so the spring isn't stretched.
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
8,936
9,281
Lincolnshire, UK
Ref post #13, here it is. £24 on eBay

No idea how long it will last, but if you don't use them very often (and most people won't) that wo't matter. It is a far better looking piece of kit than the ParkTool one and less than half the price.
 

Akiwi

🐸 Kermit Elite 🐸
Feb 6, 2019
986
1,292
Olching, Germany
Ref post #13, here it is. £24 on eBay

No idea how long it will last, but if you don't use them very often (and most people won't) that wo't matter. It is a far better looking piece of kit than the ParkTool one and less than half the price.
I Agree. It is beautifull!. I didn't see that one on the market when I got the Parktool one. and the proce is much friendlier.
 

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