Future EMTB: More power & range or lightweight (15-20kg)?

[The Flying Dutchman]

Seeing the introduction of significantly lighter EMTB's (sub 20kg) is great! interested to see if the big manufacturers will get onboard by offering parallel bikes lines with less assist and battery.

Will this be the new direction of innovation for EMTB? or just a sub-niche?

 

[flash]

I don't "need" more power than my current e8000 motor. I would always be happy with more range. However I do see that I could have something like a Zesty as my lower powered/accoustic bike and a more powerful trail/enduro bike like I have now.

I think that both types will have a market and some of us will have two bikes for different rides/purposes. I especially like the idea of having a "free" acoustic bike with the Fazua system.

Gordon

 

[iXi]

I also agree there will be market for both kinds of bikes. The ones that ferry their bike to the hills for a quick 1-2hr thrash and want nimble and light bikes and the weekend warriors that want the range to explore.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Lighter please

 

[R120]

I have said it multiple threads that I just cannot see the need for more power than the current crop of bikes, on a personal level the Shimano E8000 system is all I can see myself ever needing power wise. Making the whole thing lighter is what I would like to see.

My worry is that more powerful bikes starts to actually make the gap between regular trail users and emtb riders more significant, and open up a can of worms on trail use. At the moment I don't think this is an issue, but it could be.

 

[Gary]

...and bigger/stronger user replaceable main axle bearings

 

[Dax]

Lighter please

 

[Shaun grace]

I'd prefer lighter and more range, I ride mostly in eco mode atm, trying to get more distance from my levo.
The furthest I've been so far is 30miles, with 1500ft of climbing, I'd prefer 40 miles with 3000ft of climb, but I don't think it has the capacity.

 

[100 Cols]

My points would go:

80 points to More range
20 points to Less Weight
0 points to More power

 

[Doomanic]

More range please.

Then less weight.

More power? Totally unnecessary for the riding I do.

 

[Kernow]

Only time wieght bothers me is if I need to lift the bike over a gate . I can’t see wieght ever coming down a lot , even carbon makes little difference , because the battery and motor are the heavy items . Plus carbon off road bikes have a short life .
More range yes please , range is the most limiting factor for me , and the never knowing just how far I can go prevents me planning decent adventure rides on the ebike , especially a battery that wasn’t effected by the cold . So basically we’re waiting for battery technology to move on a large step ,

 

[MattyB]

I used to think getting these things much lighter was key, but I now believe durability and reliability is the main area for improvement - it seems like all the current motors have reliability issues and probably need to be considered as a 2 year consumable, at least for those who ride harder and more regularly. Besides, until there is a leap forward in battery tech I don't think there is a really a way of geting them much lighter whilst still preserving the existing range. A Fazua powered part E/part acoustic replacement for my trail bike would be very interesting though, but it couldn't be my only MTB I don't think, at least not yet.

 

[stiv674]

Quieter and more range for me.

Unfortunately battery tech is currently the limiting factor, as mentioned above I can't see that changing a great deal anytime soon.

Definitely no to more power though.

A quick suggestion to Shimano, please improve your app functionality to something similar to the mission control one.

 

[Kangr]

More range is most important I think
then More power. I would like a bit more to get up some of the really steep stuff.
last is lighter weight. having ridden a "light" ebike and then moved to something heavier I feel that the weight isn't as important as you at first think. I'm not saying it isn't important but in normal mtb a pound or two would make a huge difference in emtb it doesn't (at least to me)

Was talking to a rep last week and (without me saying anything) he stated that he thought that the lighter ebike with less battery would of been a thing but from what he sees. people just want more power.

the smaller battery lighter systems like the Fazua will be around for only a few years i think. As motor and battery weight come down to a point where there is not much difference between a fully blown emtb and a fazua system then what would be the point of having a system that's less capable when there is little advantages to it.

 

[Slowroller]

I think some manufacturers will add a lighter line of emtbs in a more XC/Trail sort of setup, somewhere in the 120-130mm travel range, but longer travel 150-160 enduro-ish bikes will always be more powerful. I'd hope that within those catagories, you'd be able to have some choices in modular battery packs to manage weight and range. Who wants to tote around a 750wh battery if you're just going out for a mellow hour after work?

We aren't alone in seeing the need for different bikes.

The best eMTB you can buy | Page 2 of 5 | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

 

[flash]

the smaller battery lighter systems like the Fazua will be around for only a few years i think. As motor and battery weight come down to a point where there is not much difference between a fully blown emtb and a fazua system then what would be the point of having a system that's less capable when there is little advantages to it.

I don't think so. The Fazua style will grow quickly for no other reason than it'll be super popular in road e-Bikes and will therefore be easily available for eBike builds. Plus some, including me, would love to have access to an accoustic bike but know they'd only ride it every now and again. With a Fazua I can take the motor out once or twice a month and ride an unassisted bike.

Diversity will get more potential customers. Some want a bike as close to a regular bike. Some need more assistance due to age or injury. Some just love the feel or pure power and torque when climbing. Like accoustic MTB's have diverged into different categories the same will happen for eMTB's.

Gordon

 

[Macone]

I think some manufacturers will add a lighter line of emtbs in a more XC/Trail sort of setup, somewhere in the 120-130mm travel range, but longer travel 150-160 enduro-ish bikes will always be more powerful. I'd hope that within those catagories, you'd be able to have some choices in modular battery packs to manage weight and range. Who wants to tote around a 750wh battery if you're just going out for a mellow hour after work?

We aren't alone in seeing the need for different bikes.

The best eMTB you can buy | Page 2 of 5 | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

you mean like the current Focus bikes?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

More range is most important I think
then More power. I would like a bit more to get up some of the really steep stuff.
last is lighter weight. having ridden a "light" ebike and then moved to something heavier I feel that the weight isn't as important as you at first think. I'm not saying it isn't important but in normal mtb a pound or two would make a huge difference in emtb it doesn't (at least to me)

Was talking to a rep last week and (without me saying anything) he stated that he thought that the lighter ebike with less battery would of been a thing but from what he sees. people just want more power.

the smaller battery lighter systems like the Fazua will be around for only a few years i think. As motor and battery weight come down to a point where there is not much difference between a fully blown emtb and a fazua system then what would be the point of having a system that's less capable when there is little advantages to it.

Agree with you Kangr and the order
Range
Power
Lighter
And to add one other item,
More durable parts

 

[steve_sordy]

you mean like the current Focus bikes?

@Slowroller Just in case you don't know the Focus range, you can have the usual 378 Whr for many rides, then double that to 756whr for the longer or steeper rides. Jam2, or Sam2 if you want to go bigger.

 

[Slowroller]

you mean like the current Focus bikes?

Yes, but not just Focus. If that becomes the norm with all manufacturers.

 

[R120]

@Slowroller Just in case you don't know the Focus range, you can have the usual 378 Whr for many rides, then double that to 756whr for the longer or steeper rides. Jam2, or Sam2 if you want to go bigger.

The problem with the TEC pack is that its a very compromised solution for aggressive riding, fine for going on a long XC ride, but adding loads of weight where you don't want it for a lot of riding.

 

[stiv674]

It was the TEC pack option which attracted me to the focus.

I went to the Forest of Dean for the first time on Saturday, I got about 18 miles out of the integrated battery, that was more than enough for several runs up and down, I then put the TEC pack on to have a leisurely ride around the easier trail.

 

[OlaGB]

Range and faster charging, way before more power.
Then a longer lasting drivetrain.
Weight is ok at 20-23kg.

 

[Shane]

Lighter!

I certainly don’t need more power. Pretty rare I ever use the full force of the yammy motor.

More range would be nice, but to have the bike lose a few kegs would be ideal.

My wife complains about this the most, and fair enough. She weighs a little under 50 kilos and her LIV is around 24.5. That’s literally half her body weight. If you’re a 90kilo rider imagine lugging around a 45kg bike!

So yes, we’re hanging out for the next generation of lighter bikes.

 

[outerlimits]

Lighter ??? When we are up in the scales of a 22kg ebike, I don’t think there would be a very noticeable difference if the bike was say 19kg. But for a pure pedal powered machine it would be extremely noticeable. But let’s keep it under 25kg as it could get out of control.
More power ??? I done an extreme long climb yesterday in Turbo 100% and done like no work to get to the top. I think sometimes they are overpowered, but it’s nice to have a rest.
More range ??? It’s nice to have, but usually would come with great expense, longer charge times and make most rides too lazy for some. Power management can make you work a bit and adds another challenge to riding.
I’d like to see everything become more durable and serviceable. Like I want to be able to go anywhere my mates do on their non powered bikes and that includes water crossings.

 

[Jeff McD]

I am really looking forward to more replies like kanger's, that is folks who have ridden both the lighter Fazua system and the heavier more powerful levo or similar, and see which is preferred by the majority. While I like the high power of my levo, I really would prefer a bike that is significantly lighter in the 35 pound range ultimately. That's the sweet spot for aggressive descending for me personally, but I'm just not sure how it will do on the ultra steep climbs that we have plenty of. It will be interesting to see what plays out.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Lighter ??? When we are up in the scales of a 22kg ebike, I don’t think there would be a very noticeable difference if the bike was say 19kg.

I took 1.5kg off mine in the place that matters and there was a huge difference in bike feel. So 3kg, yeah you'd notice it massively. I'd love another 1.5kg off mine.

 

[HikerDave]

Seeing the introduction of significantly lighter EMTB's (sub 20kg) is great! interested to see if the big manufacturers will get onboard by offering parallel bikes lines with less assist and battery.

Will this be the new direction of innovation for EMTB? or just a sub-niche?

I’d like lighter weight and more centralized mass over longer range. Having to make a giant tug on the bars to lift the front end of my bike makes it a lot less fun; I roll over many trail features that I used to jump off because it’s too easy for me to make a mistake and land front wheel first on my heavy eBike.

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

I took 1.5kg off mine in the place that matters and there was a huge difference in bike feel. So 3kg, yeah you'd notice it massively. I'd love another 1.5kg off mine.

Can I ask how? Genuinely curious

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

I took 1.5kg off mine in the place that matters and there was a huge difference in bike feel. So 3kg, yeah you'd notice it massively. I'd love another 1.5kg off mine.

Can I ask how? Genuinely curious

Expensive wheels, tubeless and lighter tyres. Were the biggest loss.

Here's a screenshot of my geeky spreadsheet that shows the weight loss and how much it cost...